Tears of the Kingdom Spoilers Thread

[Chariot190]

To be fair, Calamity Ganon is the Phantom Ganon of an insanely amped Ganondorf

I'm like 90% sure that TOTK Phantom Ganon scales magnitudes above Calamity Ganon

 

[TheGatememer]

I'm like 90% sure that TOTK Phantom Ganon scales magnitudes above Calamity Ganon

Does he? I'm pretty sure Link canonically beats several Phantom Ganons prior to even getting the Master Sword

 

[Chariot190]

I would not be shocked if Link Pre-MS in TOTK > BOTW Peak due to Sage with funny pebble scaling.
Hyrule Castle Phantom Ganon makes me think it flat-out upscales tho.

 

[TheGatememer]

Doesn't that create circular scaling

 

[Chariot190]

Not really, iirc the sages just vastly downscale off Ganon himself who is 5-A, no MS involved.

But I ain't the dude making these profiles so shrug.

 

[TheGatememer]

I was more so referring to Link. He is canonically weakened during the events of TotK, up until he obtains the amped up Gatcha 5-Star Rating Master Sword. If Link downscaled from Ganondorf who is 5-A, the scaling chain would be like: Weakened Link (TotK) < Peak Link (BotW/Beginning of TotK) < Weakened Link (TotK)

And I don't recall any statements that say that the Sages amped Link

 

[Chariot190]

Not particularly, especially if you take into account bro can get way, way, more hearts and stamina, something TOTK establishes as actually affecting strength.

Though, is he? Do they ever once state that he is weakened without the MS, or rather just that the gloom ultra ****** him up and he needs to get light blessings to reduce that as stated by the goat ******? Or rather just that he'd need it to defeat Ganon? Because you can technically obtain the sword as late as in the middle of the Demon Dragon fight.

 

[TheGatememer]

Not particularly, especially if you take into account bro can get way, way, more hearts and stamina, something TOTK establishes as actually affecting strength.

Though, is he? Do they ever once state that he is weakened without the MS, or rather just that the gloom ultra ****** him up and he needs to get light blessings to reduce that as stated by the goat ******? Or rather just that he'd need it to defeat Ganon?

Yea that's kind of what I'm referring to. He lost a lot of his strength because of the gloom, and the text in TotK for the Heart Containers/Stamina Vessels say that it restores the life force/stamina he lost, not make him stronger than before. So him getting max hearts/stamina vessels would just restore him back to his peak and it isn't even possible to get back all his hearts + vessels

Because you can technically obtain the sword as late as in the middle of the Demon Dragon fight.

Cool, 5-A Stick

 

[Chariot190]

Yea that's kind of what I'm referring to. He lost a lot of his strength because of the gloom, and the text in TotK for the Heart Containers/Stamina Vessels say that it restores the life force/stamina he lost, not make him stronger than before. So him getting max hearts/stamina vessels would just restore him back to his peak and it isn't even possible to get back all his hearts + vessels

Yeah but, that still happens even if you get the MS, it's not tied to the MS at all.
Does it still happen even after you surpass the max amount for BOTW? As TOTK inherently has way the **** more hearts and stamina compared to BOTW. Because at that point, the game would legitimately be full of shit.

 

[TheGatememer]

Yeah but, that still happens even if you get the MS, it's not tied to the MS at all.
Does it still happen even after you surpass the max amount for BOTW? As TOTK inherently has way the **** more hearts and stamina compared to BOTW. Because at that point, the game would legitimately be full of shit.

The Master Sword is, canonically speaking, the Macguffin Link needs to oppose Ganondorf, hence why Zelda did her whole 10,000+ year plan for the Master Sword. So even if all the gloom hasn't been expelled from his body, he'd still be 5-A cause of the MS, any Heart Containers on top of that would just be a bonus, I think.

ye

 

[TheGatememer]

You know, I was wondering why my row of hearts never got to the second row for the longest time, didn't know that TotK had more hearts

 

[Hypertornado099]

Just found out that the Twilight Bow can hurt Dark Beast Ganon in his weak spots. If the Master Sword during this fight is Tier 5, can this upscale the Twilight Bow since the sword can't hurt him?

Only problem I can think of rn is that its an amiibo weapon and there isn't a canon explanation for him getting it, at least not in the games itself

 

[Chariot190]

The Master Sword is, canonically speaking, the Macguffin Link needs to oppose Ganondorf, hence why Zelda did her whole 10,000+ year plan for the Master Sword. So even if all the gloom hasn't been expelled from his body, he'd still be 5-A cause of the MS, any Heart Containers on top of that would just be a bonus, I think.

ye

Of course, that doesn't mean Link can't supersede his BOTW self without it though.

As you just posted, the game says restored even after Link long since surpassed his BOTW cap.

Which implies to me two things.
1. Game is full of shit and demonstrably wrong.
2. The Gloom still affects him, and we're working on two scales here, the restoration of his abilities affected by Gloom, and straight-up new buffs, meaning he could still be lacking some of his locked-away hearts, while still effectively having more.

What's tied to Link being above his BOTW self is Rauru's blessings.

Just found out that the Twilight Bow can hurt Dark Beast Ganon in his weak spots. If the Master Sword during this fight is Tier 5, can this upscale the Twilight Bow since the sword can't hurt him?

Only problem I can think of rn is that its an amiibo weapon and there isn't a canon explanation for him getting it, at least not in the games itself

Dark Beast Ganon is 7-B, not 5-A. And yes, amiibo stuff ain't exactly canon.

 

[TheGatememer]

Of course, that doesn't mean Link can't supersede his BOTW self without it though.

As you just posted, the game says restored even after Link long since surpassed his BOTW cap.

Which implies to me two things.
1. Game is full of shit and demonstrably wrong.
2. The Gloom still affects him, and we're working on two scales here, the restoration of his abilities affected by Gloom, and straight-up new buffs, meaning he could still be lacking some of his locked-away hearts, while still effectively having more.

What's tied to Link being above his BOTW self is Rauru's blessings.

By Rauru's Blessings, do you mean the Light Blessings? or something else?

 

[Chariot190]

The things you get from Shrines, goatbro himself says that's how you cleanse the afflicted gloom and obviusly, that's what you trade in for more hearts and stamina.

 

[Dust_Collector]

The only time I think Link is weaker than his BOTW self is at the start, exploring the sky island during the tutorial yeah he's weaker but after that he basically just skyrockets because funny phantom ganon and sage scaling.

 

[Dalesean027]

The only time I think Link is weaker than his BOTW self is at the start, exploring the sky island during the tutorial yeah he's weaker but after that he basically just skyrockets because funny phantom ganon and sage scaling.

Literally right after he leaves the great sky islands dude is fighting 8-B to low 7-C minibosses and 7-C story bosses like colgera, his weakened self was 8-C and Class M so its definitely a step up right after he leaves sorta end game when he narratively should get the master sword dude is 5-A and has funny rock scaling

 

[Lou_change]

But do the Sage avatars scale to the empowered Sages themselves because unless we assume Link doesn't use them outside of Phantom Ganon because technically every boss fight after the first one would then involve a 5-A with that idea

 

[Dalesean027]

Or wait weren't we going with 5-C possibly 5-A for Sages since they kinda get negged by Ganondorf consistently

 

[Chariot190]

But do the Sage avatars scale to the empowered Sages themselves because unless we assume Link doesn't use them outside of Phantom Ganon because technically every boss fight after the first one would then involve a 5-A

Weird paradoxical scaling because all can be fought at any point.

Or wait weren't we going with 5-C possibly 5-A for Sages since they kinda get negged by Ganondorf consistently

Whatever it is, it's still >>>>>>>>> the CaLAMEity.

 

[Dalesean027]

Weird paradoxical scaling because all can be fought at any point.

Whatever it is, it's still >>>>>>>>> the CaLAMEity.

Yeah lol

 

[CrackerVolley]

Here's a big question: Would Age of Calamity Link be stronger than BotW Link due to fighting the complete version of Calamity Ganon?

 

[Lou_change]

Or wait weren't we going with 5-C possibly 5-A for Sages since they kinda get negged by Ganondorf consistently

That is probably right my bad but that isn't my point, I would like to suggest the Avatars scale to the base sages when you have the normal vow and only scale to the empowered sage with the Solemn Vows otherwise to my understanding the avatars would scale higher than the sage who created them. Also didn't they take a little while to win their rematches with the dungeon bosses.

 

[Chariot190]

Also didn't they take a little while to win their rematches with the dungeon bosses.

Did they? That happened offscreen + they had to catch up to you.
For all we know it took five seconds and the rest of that time was trying to get Yunobo's fat ass up a cliff.

otherwise to my understanding the avatars would scale higher than the sage who created them.

They'd probably scale however strong the sage they embody is at the given time based on how they're described.

 

[CrackerVolley]

Oh, and another question: Since we're making a whole deal about how Link scales to all the bosses and normal enemies, would we be able to utilize that parts of low-end scaling for the basic enemies?

 

[Lou_change]

Here's a big question: Would Age of Calamity Link be stronger than BotW Link due to fighting the complete version of Calamity Ganon?

Probably but he had help from the other 4 champions, 3 of the Sages, Teba, Hestu, King Rhoam, Zelda with awaken powers, Impa, Master Kohga, Terrako's self destruction, and possibly Sooga, Monk Maz Koshia, all four Great Fairies, the Battle-Tested Guardian, and Purah & Robbie

 

[Lou_change]

Did they? That happened offscreen + they had to catch up to you.
For all we know it took five seconds and the rest of that time was trying to get Yunobo's fat ass up a cliff.

Fair

They'd probably scale however strong the sage they embody is at the given time based on how they're described.

If the normal vow scales to the stone amped Sages, the Solemn vow avatars being stronger than normal vow Avatar would mean they are either stronger than the actual sage or the sage suddenly gained a sudden boost in power. If we assume the Avatars are equal to the empowered Sages then why did Ganondorf only leave after the real sages showed up. If we go with tier 7 sage avatars there seems to be less contradictions

 

[Chariot190]

Oh, and another question: Since we're making a whole deal about how Link scales to all the bosses and normal enemies, would we be able to utilize that parts of low-end scaling for the basic enemies?

Most fodder is probably just 9-B to 9-A, maybe some 8-C's based off early Link. A lot have their own feats.

If the normal vow scales to the stone amped Sages, the Solemn vow avatars being stronger than normal vow Avatar would mean they are either stronger than the actual sage or the sage suddenly gained a sudden boost in power.

Don't know, not like I made the game. I'm just saying how they're described to work, they should be relative to the sage they embody based on how they're noted to work. For all we know the sages will amps might just be a gameplay thing, or negligible at best.

If we assume the Avatars are equal to the empowered Sages then why did Ganondorf only leave after the real sages showed up.

What? Except actually, what are you talking about? When they showed he just started trying a bit harder, he didn't leave.

If we go with tier 7 sage avatars there seems to be less contradictions

Yunobo's makes that very, very, difficult given his avatar can still shatter that marbled rock bullshit.
And to be blunt, there's going to be contradictions regardless, just different ones. A reminder that ToK wasn't exactly made with power scaling bullshit in mind, there will be some fucky stuff no matter how you go about it.

 

[Lou_change]

Don't know, not like I made the game. I'm just saying how they're described to work, they should be relative to the sage they embody based on how they're noted to work. For all we know the sages will amps might just be a gameplay thing, or negligible at best.

Could you provide a source

What? Except actually, what are you talking about? When they showed he just started trying a bit harder, he didn't leave.

After the Phantom Ganon fight he stops trying to kill Link when they show up and if I recall correctly it was suggested that he wasn't strong enough at the moment to kill them all.

Yunobo's makes that very, very, difficult given his avatar can still shatter that marbled rock bullshit

he is never even shown doing it after he got the stone I am suggesting that the Avatars scale to the sages without their stones

 

[CrackerVolley]

Wait, why are we even working about scaling for the Sages. They helped fight packs of Phantom Ganon twice.

 

[Tyloxtus]

But do the Sage avatars scale to the empowered Sages themselves because unless we assume Link doesn't use them outside of Phantom Ganon because technically every boss fight after the first one would then involve a 5-A with that idea

The Sage Avatars should only scale to their pre-Secret Stone keys, since they are functionally identical to how they were when they were teamed up with Link solving whatever Domain's problem

 

[Chariot190]

Could you provide a source

The cutscenes you get them, item descriptions, etc?

After the Phantom Ganon fight he stops trying to kill Link when they show up and if I recall correctly it was suggested that he wasn't strong enough at the moment to kill them all.

My brother in christ, them showing up is an issue even if the avatars are identical in power because the number of mf's he had to fight just doubled. While of course, not being quite at peak not withstanding he wasnt there to begin with, that was an illusion of himself

he is never even shown doing it after he got the stone I am suggesting that the Avatars scale to the sages without their stones

And I'm suggesting the avatars scale to however strong the sages are, whether that's tier 7, 6, or even 5. It doesn't make any sense at all for them to be ten fucktillion times weaker, doubly so when the sages themselves talk about the avatars as if they're literally just their own power at Link's beck and call whenever he needs it or comparable to themselves, and one of the only reasons why they can make avatars to begin with is because of the secret stones.

 

[Chariot190]

The Sage Avatars should only scale to their pre-Secret Stone keys, since they are functionally identical to how they were when they were teamed up with Link solving whatever Domain's problem

You realize the sages are also functionally identical to how they were when they teamed up, post-secret stone, as seen in the game's climax.
Like surely I don't need to remind you they help Link fight Ganon. The only difference is stats, and the fact they can project an avatar to help him.

 

[Tyloxtus]

...As in they help you at the end of the game and they aren't at all stronger than when they were helping you out before? (I haven't seen the end of the game)

 

[Dust_Collector]

...As in they help you at the end of the game and they aren't at all stronger than when they were helping you out before?

They don't do anything to get a power boost between becoming that point and the endgame, like Riju sitting on her throne and making sure the Gerudo don't break the law or whatever isn't gonna make her jump from tier 7 to tier 5

 

[Chariot190]

But actually, it's pretty damn clear that the avatars are comparable to the sage, it's literally just you calling upon their power.

...As in they help you at the end of the game and they aren't at all stronger than when they were helping you out before? (I haven't seen the end of the game)

They are stronger, they're tier 5. But they still fight the same exact way they did beforehand, you literally would not know they were different if you didn't have the prior knowledge that they're actually magnitudes stronger.

Also stop arguing if you haven't actually played the game brother.

 

[Tyloxtus]

We're talking about before they became Sages. The actual people don't follow you after they become Sages.

 

[Tyloxtus]

But actually, it's pretty damn clear that the avatars are comparable to the sage, it's literally just you calling upon their power.

They are stronger, they're tier 5. But they still fight the same exact way they did beforehand, you literally would not know they were different if you didn't have the prior knowledge that they're actually magnitudes stronger.

Also stop arguing if you haven't actually played the game brother.

Arguing? I was asking you a question.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Why would the avatars randomly just be the exact same as the pre stone versions of the actual sages? Especially since they're a result of the power they gain from the stones.

 

[Chariot190]

We're talking about before they became Sages. The actual people don't follow you after they become Sages.

Except when they all join in to gang Ganon and fight, ya know, the exact same way with no functional difference?

Arguing? I was asking you a question.

You'd know if ya played the game mate, this ain't some obscure lore bit