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Taking back the Mind Stone (Zamasu + Conton City Hero CRT)

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No, it is not "too late" for me. I was not clear regarding what was being suggested due to being so stressed out from overwork of taking care of this place that I couldn't focus properly. Currently I firmly reject this extreme exaggeration.

Anyway:

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @Elizhaa @Mr._Bambu @Damage3245

Are you willing to help me out here please? I am very tired and stressed out from juggling too many tasks at the same time.
 
Orange said:
Well...yeah, you are being said space time, being the past, present and future of yourself or a universe , and when getting erased, your past, present and future are getting erased along with it. Regenerating from that is a text book definition of high godly.
I even made a thread to get as many confirmation about this regeneration before making the revision.
Also it's pretty late for you to pull up "it isn't reliable, and we should change standards" after a db character gets high godly, why haven't you noticed it before? Maybe you were too busy, why didn't you say anything when the standards of regeneration Were being implemented? Perhaps you too busy? Why didn't you say it on the first thread, or when you agree'd with the proposal, or when you unlocked the profiles, or when you asked us to check if the changes are fine, why didn't you check the changes ,why did you agree with the thread even when you don't?
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Because he was extremely overworked and as such didn't 100% pay attention, please get your head out of the gaping maw of your ass and read.
 
While I also disagree with regen from history erasure and conceptual erasure being the same thing (with my own reason),I believe that this is not a place to discuss such thing,instead a seperate thread for it should be made and now if Zamasu can truly regen from history erasure then he still should have high godly regen
 
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Maybe one of the other staff member that I called here would be interested in revising our standards in this regard? I think that Sera was responsible for them after all, and they do not particularly make much sense.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Because he was extremely overworked and as such didn't 100% pay attention, please get your head out of the gaping maw of your ass and read.
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Yeah, and if he was soo overworked, why
1- would he even try to say something as "agree" or "disagre", knowing full well hos word can determine the outcome of entire threads, when he isn't in the right state of mind to do such decision. It's like a drunk doctor doing heart surgery on a 4 mount old baby.
 
Orange said:
Yeah, and if he was soo overworked, why
1- would he even try to say something as "agree" or "disagre", knowing full well hos word can determine the outcome of entire threads, when he isn't in the right state of mind to do such decision. It's like a drunk doctor doing heart surgery on a 4 mount old baby.
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No, it is just not being able to always pay full attention to everything going on when I juggle 60 different discussions at the same time. It is one of the main reasons why I tend to delegate evaluations to other staff members. I am not able to keep up otherwise. Also, I am only decent at evaluating verses that I know reasonably well.
 
Orange said:
Yeah, and if he was soo overworked, why
1- would he even try to say something as "agree" or "disagre", knowing full well hos word can determine the outcome of entire threads, when he isn't in the right state of mind to do such decision. It's like a drunk doctor doing heart surgery on a 4 mount old baby.
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Stop, or even us won't be able to save you this time. Getting banned like this is useless.
 
Yes, the worst I ever do when I get in over my head in terms of workload and sleep deprivation is close a thread in conjunction with an annoyed impatient comment, after which I generally get thoroughly chewed out about it, and even that happens very rarely.
 
First of all, everybody should calm down, especially Orange.

Isn't high-godly only given to those characters that are erased in such a way that not only their mind, body and soul are destroyed, but they are entirely removed from the plot/narrative, as if they never existed in the story and nobody remembers them and such, and I don't think Zamasu was erased in such a way. Although, I am not too knowledgeable on game stuff.
 
AKM sama said:
First of all, everybody should calm down, especially Orange.

Isn't high-godly only given to those characters that are erased in such a way that not only their mind, body and soul are destroyed, but they are entirely removed from the plot/narrative, as if they never existed in the story and nobody remembers them and such, and I don't think Zamasu was erased in such a way. Although, I am not too knowledgeable on game stuff.
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It apparently fits for High Godly, but not everyone seems to agree with the standard. That's what I'm getting
 
Rez said:
High godly should be reserved for concept, narrative and information erasure only. Temporal or history erasure is an term that is too vague and most definitely should not be an qualifying factor for it
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Strongly agreed. I would greatly appreciate if a staff or highly experienced member would be willing to create a staff forum thread about the topic.
 
Rez said:
High godly should be reserved for concept, narrative and information erasure only. Temporal or history erasure is an term that is too vague and most definitely should not be an qualifying factor for it
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I always assumed that "erasing the history" part of the current definition meant "erasing someone from the plot/narrative along with all the information/memories", which is the same thing as you said. But it can also be understood as "mind+body+soul destruction + timeline destruction" which seems to be the point of contention. I don't remember very well if the definition always meant the latter to be the case, or was I just misinformed.

@DontTalkDT or @Ultima_Reality, you wanna weigh in?
 
AKM sama said:
I always assumed that "erasing the history" part of the current definition meant "erasing someone from the plot/narrative along with all the information/memories", which is the same thing as you said. But it can also be understood as "mind+body+soul destruction + timeline destruction" which seems to be the point of contention. I don't remember very well if the definition always meant the latter to be the case, or was I just misinformed.

@DontTalkDT or @Ultima_Reality, you wanna weigh in?
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I don't have a problem with High-Godly for narrative erasure, only for temporal destruction.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Except, that is not the case, because the "pages of history" still allow for Trunks and Mai to return to the past of that universe and encounter another Zamasu.

In the case of Xenoverse, Chronoa mentioned that everything leading up to Zen-Oh erasing Zamasu was a concrete part of history and was destined to happen, meaning that nothing was removed from the "pages of history".
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Keep in mind that was a different timeline, not the past of that universe.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, the way I read it Zen'o simply erased the universe that was Zamasu, as everybody remembered Zamasu afterwards and Goku could travel back there via a time machine afterwards. Erasing the entire timeline was never either mentioned or proven within the story, and we cannot expect the writers to keep our tiering distinction between Low 2-C and 3-A constantly in mind.

Anyway, rating Zamasu as having High-Godly regeneration without any explicit proof and reliant entirely on artificial speculation about acausality combined with complete timeline destruction is entirely unacceptable.

@AKM sama

I would still appreciate some help here, as I am overwhelmed with work.
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Few issues. It actually is implied that the entire timeline was destroyed due to the time ring. The other aspect was likely just PIS.

Not saying I agree or disagree with removing high godly regen, but I wanted to contend that one point you made
 
Tarang123 said:
Few issues. It actually is implied that the entire timeline was destroyed due to the time ring. The other aspect was likely just PIS.

Not saying I agree or disagree with removing high godly regen, but I wanted to contend that one point you made
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Time ring being destroyed is not really a good point. It is also created at the birth of a new timeline, not the entire timeline, just its starting point. Zeno's EE can be seen as "the end" of time itself, making it stop flowing (at least not in terms of movement) instead of the timeline's entire past to future being erased.
 
Rabbit2002 said:
Time ring being destroyed is not really a good point. It is also created at the birth of a new timeline, not the entire timeline, just its starting point. Zeno's EE can be seen as "the end" of time itself, making it stop flowing (at least not in terms of movement) instead of the timeline's entire past to future being erased.
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That doesn't really seem very coherent when you think about it. The time ring means that a new timeline has been born. The time ring disappearing would naturally mean that the timeline itself has also disappeared, unless you now have a better explanation as to why the time ring disappeared.
 
Tarang123 said:
That doesn't really seem very coherent when you think about it. The time ring means that a new timeline has been born. The time ring disappearing would naturally mean that the timeline itself has also disappeared, unless you now have a better explanation as to why the time ring disappeared.
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They literally traveled back there using "Change frequency to be able to jump to any parallel world/timeline" after the zeno "deleted" it. If the timeline has disappeared this is not possible, unless you prove that it can be used to jump to some kind of Void that has no spacetime at all.
 
Regardless of whether or not the standards for High-Godly are changed, the argument for Zamasu falls flat because a fundamental aspect of his existence was not erased. The information of him ever existing would have to be removed for this to count as High-Godly, but that is simply not the case at all. If this information was deleted, than nobody would remember he ever existed. However, everyone remembered the encounter with Zamasu and the future timeline itself, and later on, the participants and audience members of the Tournament of Power remembered the existence of the universes and their inhabitants when they were deleted, proving that Zen-Oh's Existence Erasure only boils down to Mid-Godly.

If this information was truly erased:
  1. Nobody would be able to connect to or return to the future timeline in any capacity, since its existential archive would be deleted
  2. Nobody would be able to recall Zamasu's existence or that of the future timeline
  3. No other version of Zamasu would be allowed to exist across any reality, since the knowledge of him ever existing would be removed
If Zamasu was erased by Zen-Oh, and he was deleted from the past altogether, removing any chance of him existing in any other future (all versions), or completely wiped from the Scroll of Eternity (Xenoverse and Heroes), and simply forgotten (all versions), and then he came back, then he would qualify for High-Godly. But as it stands, unless any solid evidence is presented, Zen-Oh only erased Zamasu on a Mid-Godly level -- physical, spiritual, and mental level.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Regardless of whether or not the standards for High-Godly are changed, the argument for Zamasu falls flat because a fundamental aspect of his existence was not erased. The information of him ever existing would have to be removed for this to count as High-Godly, but that is simply not the case at all. If this information was deleted, than nobody would remember he ever existed. However, everyone remembered the encounter with Zamasu and the future timeline itself, and later on, the participants and audience members of the Tournament of Power remembered the existence of the universes and their inhabitants when they were deleted, proving that Zen-Oh's Existence Erasure only boils down to Mid-Godly.

If this information was truly erased:
  1. Nobody would be able to connect to or return to the future timeline in any capacity, since its existential archive would be deleted
  2. Nobody would be able to recall Zamasu's existence or that of the future timeline
  3. No other version of Zamasu would be allowed to exist across any reality, since the knowledge of him ever existing would be removed
If Zamasu was erased by Zen-Oh, and he was deleted from the past altogether, removing any chance of him existing in any other future (all versions), or completely wiped from the Scroll of Eternity (Xenoverse and Heroes), and simply forgotten (all versions), and then he came back, then he would qualify for High-Godly. But as it stands, unless any solid evidence is presented, Zen-Oh only erased Zamasu on a Mid-Godly level -- physical, spiritual, and mental level.
Click to expand...
That's arguing 3-A DBS, I mean, I can understand it, but it would make the scaling contradictory due the fact that DB does works with timelines
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Regardless of whether or not the standards for High-Godly are changed, the argument for Zamasu falls flat because a fundamental aspect of his existence was not erased. The information of him ever existing would have to be removed for this to count as High-Godly, but that is simply not the case at all. If this information was deleted, than nobody would remember he ever existed. However, everyone remembered the encounter with Zamasu and the future timeline itself, and later on, the participants and audience members of the Tournament of Power remembered the existence of the universes and their inhabitants when they were deleted, proving that Zen-Oh's Existence Erasure only boils down to Mid-Godly.

If this information was truly erased:
  1. Nobody would be able to connect to or return to the future timeline in any capacity, since its existential archive would be deleted
  2. Nobody would be able to recall Zamasu's existence or that of the future timeline
  3. No other version of Zamasu would be allowed to exist across any reality, since the knowledge of him ever existing would be removed
If Zamasu was erased by Zen-Oh, and he was deleted from the past altogether, removing any chance of him existing in any other future (all versions), or completely wiped from the Scroll of Eternity (Xenoverse and Heroes), and simply forgotten (all versions), and then he came back, then he would qualify for High-Godly. But as it stands, unless any solid evidence is presented, Zen-Oh only erased Zamasu on a Mid-Godly level -- physical, spiritual, and mental level.
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I agree with this.
 
Bernkastelll said:
That's arguing 3-A DBS, I mean, I can understand it, but it would make the scaling contradictory due the fact that DB does works with timelines
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. DBS seems to make a distinction between completely destroying a universe and destroying all of its history as well. It is not entirely consistent in that regard.
 
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After thinking about it.
I would rather believe 3A Zeno. Rather than us going by double standards like this, I know it's been discussed many times. But without almost any unification, it is essentially irrelevant whether the universes are SpaceTime or have their own SpaceTime. Literally, in dragon ball, there have been dozens to hundreds of claims to influence the universe such as "ruling the universe", "destroying the universe", "strongest in the universe",... but None of this affects all of spacetime/Past to future. The only justification I can think of for high godly is that Zeno's EE wiped out Zamasu to the point where everyone believed he was dead, including Beerus who admitted the hakai couldn't kill him due to immortality ( in the manga, possibly in the anime due to beerus needing to seal him). However it could simply be that zeno's EE's have something to do with some time tricks (time ring disappeared) or disabling Regen, rather than affecting the entire past and future, which is quite literally not supported by anything. There are also some copy universe related things that support High Godly, but honestly they don't seem to connect with the concept of "universe" in the context of infinite zamasu.
So About CRT, I neutral, more towards Agree
 
There’s overwhelming evidence that Zeno’s destruction of Infinite Zamasu was a 3-A feat, yeah, but since it’s stated over and over that Zeno can nuke all twelve universes if he wanted to he’d keep his 2-C rating
 
We don't know if Zeno can wipe out its entire spacetime continuum, he just appears to have erased its matter or something like that. That's not counting in Dragon ball, the space/distance between universes isn't even 5D or something like that (if you watched the U6 vs U7 saga), what separates Low-2C and 2C in the first place
 
Rabbit2002 said:
We don't know if Zeno can wipe out its entire spacetime continuum, he just appears to have erased its matter or something like that. That's not counting in Dragon ball, the space/distance between universes isn't even 5D or something like that (if you watched the U6 vs U7 saga), what separates Low-2C and 2C in the first place
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but this is derailing. If you feel like downgrading Zeno to 3A, then you can do that in a different thread.
 
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