DBS Manga: Super Saiyan Blue's multiplier

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I need this to be a quick thread, and apparently no one who was complaining on my thread can spare two minutes to do it.

Currently, SSB is scaled to 10x the power of SSG based on this reasoning:

(Stronger than before after 3 years of training, 10% of Super Saiyan Blue alone is roughly comparable to the full power of the Super Saiyan God transformation)

This is because Goku and Vegeta's base power was shown to be relative in all chapters leading to the tournament, and the manga didn't portray Goku as being astronomically stronger by then. This is why it's assumed that the manga is portraying SSB's full power as 10x the strength of SSG.

However, there is some disagreement, as the Anime version has a SSB at 50x SSG for being a SS version of SSG, as pointed out in this thread.

The manga shares some of the evidence for it, like the movie pamphlets: A, B.
The manga also considers the movie "Ressurrection of F" as canon.

This is Goku's explanation of SSB in the movie:


This is a discussion if we should use the movie's explanation and implication of 50x multiplier or stick to the 10x multiplier implied by the Manga. (Honestly the solution would be not consider the movie canon as we barely have a reason to, but hey...). Now discuss and vote so we can move on to the scaling.

10x multiplier: @UchihaSlayer96, @CloverDragon03, @KingNanaya, @DonkeySlayer06, @The_Yellow_Topaz, @AguilaR202, @Damage3245, @Maverick_Zero_X (3;8)
50x multiplier: @Nullflowerblush, @ChronoULT, @AwkguyDB, @SlendVeny, @DarkDragonMedeus, @RedReaper, @Fastestthingalive50, @Greatsage13th, @LordTracer, @Elizhaa, @Dereck03, @Spectra_Schiffer, @Gamin_Yoon23 (4;13)

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I have always disagreed with using the movie, as well as its accompanying promotional material, as canon material for the Dragon Ball Super Manga.
It's a Dragon Ball Z movie, and there's zero evidence that they're canon to each other.

So, I support the 10x multiplier being used instead of the 50x one, as that's what's actually stated in the manga.

This would also entail no longer using these two scans to prove that base Goku absorbed SSG's power into his base form, like we saw in the movies and anime versions. That simply never took place in the manga, and is only supported by promo material that we have zero reason to consider canon to the DBS Manga.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

This would also entail no longer using these two scans to prove that base Goku absorbed SSG's power into his base form, like we saw in the movies and anime versions. That simply never took place in the manga, and is only supported by promo material that has no reason to be considered canon to the DBS Manga.

AGREED.

It's important to note that Goku's Base form does end up scaling to God forms anyway due to Black Arc scaling being f'd up, but regardless.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

AGREED.

It's important to note that Goku's Base form does end up scaling to God forms anyway due to Black Arc scaling being f'd up, but regardless.

Yes, I agree. Saiyan base forms should only scale to God level by the time the Black Arc rolls around, and purely due to scaling.

IIRC, that scaling starts becoming a thing after Black matches SSB Vegeta in his Super Saiyan form. I don't fully recall the details, but yeah that was the catalyst iirc.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Yes, I agree. Saiyan base forms should only scale to God level by the time the Black Arc rolls around, and purely due to scaling.

IIRC, that scaling starts becoming a thing after Black matches SSB Vegeta in his Super Saiyan form. I don't fully recall the details, but yeah that was the catalyst iirc.

Black actually curbstomps SSB Vegeta after one Zenkai, shit's crazy. Yeah, and then Vegeta trains for like, a year, and matches Black's Super Saiyan form with his own, thus his Base form would downscale, as there is a finite distance between SS and Base.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Black actually curbstomps SSB Vegeta after one Zenkai, shit's crazy. Yeah, and then Vegeta trains for like, a year, and matches Black's Super Saiyan form with his own, thus his Base form would downscale, as there is a finite distance between SS and Base.

Yep, that sounds about right. Sorry, it's been a while since I read the Black arc.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Yep, that sounds about right. Sorry, it's been a while since I read the Black arc.

It's fine, I'm detailing all of Super's scaling in my blog. In fact, after this is done (because obviously people had a problem with me using 10x), I'd like to have your input.

 

[omegabronic]

so just to know, this would only affect the manga SSB and not the anime SSB, right?

 

[Padaruyos]

Yeah anime SSB should still be 50x SSG

 

[sanicspood]

It's fine, I'm detailing all of Super's scaling in my blog. In fact, after this is done (because obviously people had a problem with me using 10x), I'd like to have your input.

you're godlycharmander?

 

[Nierre]

 

[CloverDragon03]

Ain't no way you outed yourself like this

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

That's insane

 

[KingNanaya]

yikes

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Bro outed himself for a failed crt.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

you're godlycharmander?

That's insane

Ain't no way you outed yourself like this

Oops, I linked the current blog instead of mine, I have both of them in the search bar because I'd obviously need to see the current blog to announce the changes in my CRT. Why would I ask for input for a blog from years ago?

You may check our IPs if you wish.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Bro outed himself for a failed crt.

yikes

I'm not godly charmander, I got the blogs mixed up when I copy pasted it, as you can see above my blog was right next to his

 

[Spinoirr]

Oops, I linked the current blog instead of mine, I have both of them in the search bar because I'd obviously need to see the current blog to announce the changes in my CRT. Why would I ask for input for a blog from years ago?

You may check our IPs if you wish.

I mean, I've seen your blog so you probably just ment to post that instead

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

You may check our IPs if you wish.

Albuquerque New Mexico

 

[CloverDragon03]

...Well, that aside.

As far as SSB's multiplier is concerned, I think 50x SSG should remain strictly for the anime while the manga maintains 10x SSG. As for the base form scaling, I'm iffy on if that's within the scope of this thread, given the controversial nature of the subject

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

...Well, that aside.

As far as SSB's multiplier is concerned, I think 50x SSG should remain strictly for the anime while the manga maintains 10x SSG. As for the base form scaling, I'm iffy on if that's within the scope of this thread, given the controversial nature of the subject

I would like to know the reasoning as to why the movies are considered canon to the manga?

I believe it's because Toyotaro made the promotional manga for the movie, which is the weakest reasoning ever imo

 

[Greatsage13th]

Bro outed himself for a failed crt.

Caught lacking

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'm iffy on if that's within the scope of this thread, given the controversial nature of the subject

It kind of is within the scope of this thread IMO.

It's just a natural byproduct of no longer using the movie nor its promo material for DBS Manga scaling. That scaling legitimately has zero backing outside of those movie promos. So if we remove those, then that scaling has to go as well.
But I'm alright with handling it in a separate thread if ya'll wish.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The matter of this "sock" stuff is dealt with already, let's not clog the thread up with more of that please.

I would like to know the reasoning as to why the movies are considered canon to the manga?

I believe it's because Toyotaro made the promotional manga for the movie, which is the weakest reasoning ever imo

I'd need to refer back to the CRT in which it was accepted, though I believe it may have been something along those lines

 

[CloverDragon03]

It kind of is within the scope of this thread IMO.

It's just a natural byproduct of no longer using the movie nor its promo material for DBS Manga scaling. That scaling legitimately has zero backing outside of those movie promos. So if we remove those, then that scaling has to go as well.
But I'm alright with handling it in a separate thread if ya'll wish.

I disagree. SSB being 50x SSG in the manga is not currently accepted (whereas base forms being equal to BoG SSG is), so I don't believe this comparison holds up.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I disagree. SSB being 50x SSG in the manga is not currently accepted, so I don't believe this comparison holds up.

The scaling is accepted for reasons that this thread aims to debunk, so I don't see how this wouldn't correlate, but whatever. I really don't care lmao.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I disagree. SSB being 50x SSG in the manga is not currently accepted, so I don't believe this comparison holds up.

Well, the movie has all the reasons to make SSB 50x SSG, it's virtually the same lines as the anime thread, instead we have a directly implied multiplier on the manga.

But I'm alright with handling it in a separate thread if ya'll wish

Makes a CRT for speed scaling
Have to make a CRT for a multiplier
Makes a CRT for the multiplier
Have to make a CRT to remove the movie as canon

Threadception

 

[CloverDragon03]

Let it be known that if SSB being 50x SSG in the manga was already accepted (since in that case, it'd be removing two things that depend on the same thing being canon), I would've been perfectly fine with dealing with the movie's canonicity to the manga in this thread. But since it's not, I don't believe it should be.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Let it be known that if SSB being 50x SSG in the manga was already accepted (since in that case, it'd be removing two things that depend on the same thing being canon), I would've been perfectly fine with dealing with the movie's canonicity to the manga in this thread. But since it's not, I don't believe it should be.

Ferb, I know what we're gonna do after this thread is over.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Found it.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Found it.

Bap.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Does it say anything about simply plugging the anime comics? Especially considering the Resurrection 'F' comic was released in 2015?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Does it say anything about simply plugging the anime comics? Especially considering the Resurrection 'F' comic was released in 2015?

What do you mean, like "Hey, we're plugging this comic so you can buy it, this is a marketing stunt"? No... No, Null they obviously didn't say anything.

But it's very clear to me based on the price tags on each and every anime comic section that it's marketing to make people buy it rather than saying it's canon, as Herms himself said.

 

[Killerdrone123]

I'm fine with it being 10× multiplier manga scaling is always trash compared to the anime

 

[Nullflowerblush]

But it's very clear to me based on the price tags on each and every anime comic section

Why would you tell someone to read something and not be transparent about how much it costs to read said thing?

rather than saying it's canon

時系列順に紹介していくぞ！ = "We'll introduce [the stories] in chronological order!"
「破壊神ビルス編」直後のストーリーは、アニメコミックスDRAGON BALL Z復活の「F」を読もう!! = "For the story immediately following the "God of Destruction Beerus Arc," read the anime comic DRAGON BALL Z: Resurrection "F"!"
「宇宙サバイバル編」直後のお話、アニメコミックスDRAGON BALL超ブロリーもチェック!! = "For the story immediately following the "Universe Survival Arc," read the anime comic DRAGON BALL Super: Broly!"

Yes, if you want to learn of the events that take place immediately after [insert story arc], read this non-canon comic!
The contents are completely irrelevant and cannot be applied to your understanding of the story, but for completionist's sake, go ahead!

as Herms himself said.

As Herms himself surmised.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Why would you tell someone to read something and not be transparent about how much it costs to read said thing?

Because they didn't do it for the manga volumes themselves

時系列順に紹介していくぞ！ = "We'll introduce [the stories] in chronological order!"

Ah, okay, didn't know that part.

 

[RedReaper]

Also, I don’t understand the scaling logic here being “10x.”

10% SSB Vegeta being at 10% wasn’t comparable to Goku SSG. SSG Goku was superior. Beerus literally confirms as such in describing the event. If anything, it’d be vastly less than 10x if you take it literally. (This is also ignoring that Whis says “usual” not “max” output. Even if you assume he meant the same, the “real” multiplier would not fit the actual scaling logic of the series and thus this would be an outlier.)

 

[AwkguyDB]

Why would you tell someone to read something and not be transparent about how much it costs to read said thing?

時系列順に紹介していくぞ！ = "We'll introduce [the stories] in chronological order!"
「破壊神ビルス編」直後のストーリーは、アニメコミックスDRAGON BALL Z復活の「F」を読もう!! = "For the story immediately following the "God of Destruction Beerus Arc," read the anime comic DRAGON BALL Z: Resurrection "F"!"
「宇宙サバイバル編」直後のお話、アニメコミックスDRAGON BALL超ブロリーもチェック!! = "For the story immediately following the "Universe Survival Arc," read the anime comic DRAGON BALL Super: Broly!"

Yes, if you want to learn of the events that take place immediately after [insert story arc], read this non-canon comic!
The contents are completely irrelevant and cannot be applied to your understanding of the story, but for completionist's sake, go ahead!

As Herms himself surmised.

disagree with the OP for this reason

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Disagree with op fra.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

10% SSB Vegeta being at 10% wasn’t comparable to Goku SSG. SSG Goku was superior. Beerus literally confirms as such in describing the event. If anything, it’d be vastly less than 10x if you take it literally.

Ahem.

Goku's God Form is stronger than less than 10% of Vegeta's Blue form. It's pointed out Vegeta couldn't delay Hit's timeskip like Goku because he couldn't unleash 10% of his power, thus it's considered that 10% would be roughly comparable.

(This is also ignoring that Whis says “usual” not “max” output. Even if you assume he meant the same, the “real” multiplier would not fit the actual scaling logic of the series and thus this would be an outlier.)

Whis actually says "original power", so no, it's his max.
Outlier with what exactly? When has SSB been portrayed as fifty times stronger than God? I can prove them being similar fairly easily.