Super Mario Series Revision (Well, more of downgrade)

[DragonLord]

That's a terrible analogy. Kamek uses the EXACT SAME SPELL on the other bosses before and after the Raphael feat. Raphael even grows in size just like all the rest. It's not just a creation spell it's literally an amp.

It being transmutation isn't supported when it's the same amping magic. God. How many times do I have to say it?

Just because it’s a Amping spell doesn’t make that it’s only function, hell this should be obvious even in Mario in how it also functions as a shapeshifting tool, making the enemies grow and change appearance

besides, even if this is somehow Energy, it’s self destruction, Raphael can’t really use this Star level Energy because it’s how he apparently dies fully in the first place

 

[Foxthefox1000]

People growing from amps is consistent in this series. Find another excuse.

Kamek is the one that uses his own magic all the damn time even if you want to say that shit. Plus why the **** would an amped person not use that energy????

Please actually stop the reaching is pitiful.

 

[DragonLord]

People growing from amps is consistent in this series. Find another excuse.

I mean besides the part where it doesn’t always happen, And?, that doesn’t make it a universal power source or completely related

hell this “same spell” can even shrink Yoshi if he wants to

Kamek is the one that uses his own magic all the damn time even if you want to say that shit.

And?

Please actually stop the reaching is pitiful.

Sorry, I’m tall enough to not need to, but I can go higher if you want

 

[Foxthefox1000]

"I will give this person my magic energy that shows it can nuke a city upon his defeat to fight my enemy for me using my power"

Some people on VSBW: "Well maybe they can't use that energy"

Like, what? That's exactly what is happening here. Are you telling me that makes ANY sense?

 

[DragonLord]

"I will give this person my magic energy that shows it can nuke a city upon his defeat to fight my enemy for me using my power"

Some people on VSBW: "Well maybe they can't use that energy"

Like, what? That's exactly what is happening here. Are you telling me that makes ANY sense?

If they die by using the energy, there probably not using that energy when punching, else they’d you know, die

 

[Foxthefox1000]

These are extremely stupid arguments I'm sorry. Please find a better way to dismiss a feat than "well perhaps the power he recieved from a character who uses that magical power wasn't used"

 

[Foxthefox1000]

If they die by using the energy, there probably not using that energy when punching, else they’d you know, die

Raphael died after the energy all burst from him.

 

[Lou_change]

besides, even if this somehow Energy, it’s self destruction, Raphael can’t really use this Star level Energy because it’s how he apparently dies fully in the first place

He was already dead and kamek realistic wouldn't make such a big deal if it was just that given it was a result of his death.

 

[DragonLord]

Raphael died after the energy all burst from him.

Yeah, his own energy killed him after Yoshi pounded him a few times, glad we got that through

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Although "died" is questionable here since Raphael didn't only appear in Yoshi's Island.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Yeah, his own energy killed him after Yoshi pounded him a few times, glad we got that through

Why the **** are you sticking behind that asinine assumption with no proof? Raphael was just slammed by a post beneath him and then all his magical energy burst from him. It's only logical he WOULD get launched from that force and propulsion. Simple physics.

 

[Arceus0x]

All we see is raphael flying into space and turning into stars.

Him dying from his own energy is complete headcanon.

Also you are legit saying that a guy with enough energy to turn into stars on death is only in the relam of tier 7 and wouldn't use that energy in the fight? Bruh.

At least use some more logical rebuttal like "prove that these are real stars" or sth

 

[DragonLord]

Why the **** are you sticking behind that asinine assumption with no proof? Raphael was just slammed by a post beneath him and then all his magical energy burst from him. It's only logical he WOULD get launched from that force and propulsion. Simple physics.

You know, you make a good point, all his magical energy was bursting out before he was sent to space

That means that him turning into a Star wouldn’t be Kamek’s Magic, as after the explosion those effects go away (like the giant Koopa boss turning normal right after)

Also you are legit saying that a guy with enough energy to turn into stars on death is only in the relam of tier 7 and wouldn't use that energy in the fight? Bruh.

Yeah, if someone dies by there own energy, they probably can’t use that energy while exerting themselves, simple

 

[Foxthefox1000]

That doesn't have a valid reasoning either. Unlike other feats this happened in the real world so it's safe to assume those stars are real

 

[Foxthefox1000]

So then we're back to it being Yoshi's physical force that did the feat, because it's far more logical than giving a guy a random ass kamikaze power because YOU don't want to accept the logical deduction that it was caused by one of the only other two possibilities so you forced yourself to make one up. Rapheal is not a ******* bob-omb. Ravens don't have self-destruction abilities throughout the entire series.

This. Is. Headcanon. Stop arguing it.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Oh, I guess the entire franchise has self-destructing enemies because they all poof away and explode when defeated, right? So in reality nothing scales to Mario or anyone else because they all explode.

 

[DragonLord]

So then we're back to it being Yoshi's physical force that did the feat, because it's far more logical than giving a guy a random ass kamikaze power

So “Dinosaur using a pole ground pounds so hard that he turns someone into a Star” is more logical then “Bird has a Magic ability to turn into Star upon defeat”

Both sound rather ridiculous to me really, didn’t we just have a talking point about not taking Mario seriously

 

[DragonLord]

Oh, I guess the entire franchise has self-destructing enemies because they all poof away and explode when defeated, right? So in reality nothing scales to Mario or anyone else because they all explode.

I mean if a Goomba had nuclear level explosion Mario never tanked, yeah, Mario wouldn’t inherently scale, he’d still scale to Goomba’s normal feats of which there’s actually a pretty good amount

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Except what we see supports thr dino having that ability way more than assuming Raphael had a random ability to specifcally go into space and self-destruct.

 

[Lou_change]

He was already dead prove he wasn't

 

[DragonLord]

Except what we see supports thr dino having that ability way more than assuming Raphael had a random ability to specifcally go into space and self-destruct.

and your evidence is?

come to think of it every explosion in that Game has sparkles and stars even ones not done by Yoshi

 

[DragonLord]

He was already dead prove he wasn't

The Boss’es magical explosion in Yoshi’s Island doesn’t inherently mean death, the Giant Koopa was alive after his multicolored explosion

 

[Lou_change]

Outlier and I am pretty sure him being alive is the positive which has to be proven.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why is it an outlier???

 

[DragonLord]

Outlier and I am pretty sure him being alive is the positive which has to be proven.

Bowser is also alive after his explosion, we’d not have Mario games if it did kill him

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Characters can survive becoming constellations. Eustace has done it.

Besides we know extra lives and resurrection exist anyways. The Koopalings explode but still come back. Same with the Broodals. It's just a thing in the Mario Universe.

This is silly.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah, that is... dumb to say the least. Least in Mario.

 

[Arceus0x]

Not gonna lie the more i look at immobile transformation into constellations the more i feel like it shouldn't scale to most cartoon characters like bugs bunny and such. Like the one example where it is 100% an ap feat is Ultra man turning into a constellation using an ability which was combat applicable, meanwhile the rest just turn into constellations this one time and that's it. I feel like cartoon feats should be generally revised

 

[Lou_change]

Bowser also has a smaller stronger bowser inside him, infinite lifes, survives basically everything, and regenerated from a spirit

 

[DaReaperMan]

regenerated from a spirit

When dis happen

 

[Foxthefox1000]

It's not combat applicable. He was turned into some spiritual/energy thing at the end of Yoshi's New Island but somehow gained physicality again.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Then dis should be added to profile as Low-Godly over time.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Mayhaps

 

[TMaakkonen]

Ok, are we going for route of trying to find best tier? I thought that wasn’t the purpose. But if we are, well then.

Tier 7

• Bowser survives but is nearly killed by the crushing force of Super Peach's Castle of Fury (1.8 Kilotons) | Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
• Bye-Bye Cannon’s kinetic energy (294 Kilotons) | Mario & Luigi: Dream Team
• Mario tanks getting shot to the moon (2.93 megatons) | Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door

Tier 6

• Dark Bowser’s storm (12.39 gigatons) | Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story | Recalcs needed
• Giant Bowser launches Super Peach's Castle of Fury around the world with a punch (704 gigatons) | Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey

These need calcs

• The Dark Star disperses its storm upon its defeat | Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story (Tier 7-6)
• Elder Princess Shroob’s storm | Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time (Tier 7)
• The stadium-encompassing explosion the characters tanked | Mario Power Tennis (At most Tier 7)
• Bowser’s ships carry Peach’s castle and a chunk of the land into space at many times the speed of sound | Super Mario Galaxy | (Tier 7)
• Fury Bowser’s presence alone creates a thunderstorm, and his departure causes the storm to clear | Super Mario 3D World + Bowser’s Fury | (Tier 7; This can only scale to Mega/Giga Cat Mario and Giant/Fury Bowser. The storm’s size can be determined via pixel scaling from the mountains in the background)
• Lucien creates a thunderstorm | Mario Tennis Aces (Tier 7)
• The playable character can tank being launched into space at many times the speed of sound and the subsequent fall | Super Paper Mario

As a bonus, there is also DK & Wario, although they can be ignored since they have different keys.

• Shake King’s cloud dispersal | Wario Land: Shake It! (Tier 7-6)
• Donkey Kong’s moon punch (7.878 Teratons) | Donkey Kong Country Returns

Tiers 7-6 have much more feats that are also less dubious.

Meanwhile Tier 4 hinges on Power Stars and Bowser’s minion amping another minion whose feat is never directly replicated.

 

[AKM sama]

While this is going, the consensus here (and based on the previous thread) was already to remove tier 2 altogether. So I think it's fine to move ahead with those changes.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Ok, are we going for route of trying to find best tier? I thought that wasn’t the purpose. But if we are, well then.

Tier 7

• Bowser survives but is nearly killed by the crushing force of Super Peach's Castle of Fury (1.8 Kilotons) | Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
• Bye-Bye Cannon’s kinetic energy (294 Kilotons) | Mario & Luigi: Dream Team
• Mario tanks getting shot to the moon (2.93 megatons) | Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door

Tier 6

• Dark Bowser’s storm (12.39 gigatons) | Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story | Recalcs needed
• Giant Bowser launches Super Peach's Castle of Fury around the world with a punch (704 gigatons) | Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey

These need calcs

• The Dark Star disperses its storm upon its defeat | Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story (Tier 7-6)
• Elder Princess Shroob’s storm | Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time (Tier 7)
• The stadium-encompassing explosion the characters tanked | Mario Power Tennis (At most Tier 7)
• Bowser’s ships carry Peach’s castle and a chunk of the land into space at many times the speed of sound | Super Mario Galaxy | (Tier 7)
• Fury Bowser’s presence alone creates a thunderstorm, and his departure causes the storm to clear | Super Mario 3D World + Bowser’s Fury | (Tier 7; This can only scale to Mega/Giga Cat Mario and Giant/Fury Bowser. The storm’s size can be determined via pixel scaling from the mountains in the background)
• Lucien creates a thunderstorm | Mario Tennis Aces (Tier 7)
• The playable character can tank being launched into space at many times the speed of sound and the subsequent fall | Super Paper Mario

As a bonus, there is also DK & Wario, although they can be ignored since they have different keys.

• Shake King’s cloud dispersal | Wario Land: Shake It! (Tier 7-6)
• Donkey Kong’s moon punch (7.878 Teratons) | Donkey Kong Country Returns

Tiers 7-6 have much more feats that are also less dubious.

Meanwhile Tier 4 hinges on Power Stars and Bowser’s minion amping another minion whose feat is never directly replicated.

Literally most of these don't scale or can't be used.

We need to prove these storms scale to physicals and if they even use such magic when attacking since apparently that's a big issue.

The castle moving in Galaxy literally can't scale to anyone.

And Bye-Bye cannon and stadium I still have issues with.

Also, if the characters almost or would have died to Tier 7 shit or needed amps to get there or higher then maybe they shouldn't be Tier 7 to begin with.

But we can't do that because the fodder would then only be slightly weaker than the rest of the cast.

 

[Arceus0x]

The same dude that says big bird turning into stars is a usable feat is saying mario surviving canon shots and such is an inapplicable feat.

Ironicm

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Storm scaling seems to be based on the same logic as the Tier 4 Power Star/Kamek scaling (“Universal Energy Systems/“Both powers stem from the same source”).

Disregarding storms but not Creation Feats seems hypocritical

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I don't think your smart ass is grasping the fact I'm arguing the same reasonings these people have.

Bye-Bye Cannon literally uses the screen transition gags the series has used in the past. Unless we argue they also run "around the world" in the chase sequences which lead you down a straight path that leads you back to your starting position, then we shouldn't consider it legitimate

All of this is hypocritical because the arguments have been for a while now.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

And again I will note the very first feat that's literally a single ******* kiloton says Bowser would have died to it and barely survived. If anything that feat contradicts the vastly higher results of the other calcs.