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Then it wouldn't be immeasurable because it's affected by time.
There can be layers of time manipulation. This is even shown with Sonic himself as he’s affected by Chaos Control meanwhile other forms of time manipulation such as the Time Stones and the Time Switches don’t work on him. It may not sound logical, but haxes in fiction can affect things that you would think shouldn’t be affected by them, but it happens. That includes being able to use time manipulation against a character who has shown the ability to move beyond time.
 
The problem with Immeasurable Super forms is that it's only ever implied just once in the series with the Solaris fight. Not only is 06's events erased from the characters' minds (Don't use the Japanese TSR script as an argument because they never outright confirm they remember Solaris, plus Ian doesn't think they do either), we never see Super forms perform any feat on that level in later games, and the only other time-controlling powerhouse that's remotely on the same level as Solaris is the Time Eater. Even then, TE can still slow both Classic and Modern Super Sonic down with his time manipulation powers, therefore debunking the whole immeasurable argument.

I actually did ask Ian a question about the whole "past, present and future" thing and he said that they could only defeat Solaris because he outright turned the timeline into "miasmic soup". I wouldn't say it completely debunks Immeasurable speed arguments but it's mainly to debunk anyone trying to give Super Sonic any form of Temporal Omnipresence.
Time eater whole fight is another feat on that level, heck you can argue mania with the non linear time in the final zone, regardless, this is derailing, make your own thread if you want to change the scaling
 
The Exception feat technically is MFTL+, although I think the premise of the calc is flawed so it might end up being a bit feat.
The exeption feat is litterally dozens of times slower than what base sonic scales to, plus it is a very casual feat by super
 
Ian is not only not WOG but if time fuckery is the reason why they were able to beat Solaris, then there would’ve been no reason to attack it in the past, present, and future simultaneously (as Eggman states defeating it in the present would do nothing).
Ian did partially write the Encyclo-speed-ia along with Sega, so I consider him a more of a "proxy of God" because he usually just reiterates what Sega tells him when it comes to answering Sonic lore related questions on BumbleKast. He usually will state when something has no answer from Sega, such as when he asked why the Master Emerald could make Angel Island float when it had "no special properties".

Plus the main reason they defeated Solaris (as said in the game) is by hitting his core, which Eggman outright says is his consciousness and the only thing not "super-dimensional" when it comes to his body.


Now to put all that derailing aside, are there even any other Game Continuity characters that actually have feats of Immeasurable Speed that aren't just "Oh he fought Character A"? Because I don't think Perfect Chaos, Ultimate Gemerl, the Titans or anyone else has actually showcased anything of that scale.
 
Now to put all that derailing aside, are there even any other Game Continuity characters that actually have feats of Immeasurable Speed that aren't just "Oh he fought Character A"? Because I don't think Perfect Chaos, Ultimate Gemerl, the Titans or anyone else has actually showcased anything of that scale
Doesn't matter since all they is the scale to super's, they have no quantifiable feat of speed outside of fighting super, this is true even in the current justifications, this is not changing the scale between the characters at all, power scaling is a common thing we do on the site
 
I agree with removing finite numbers from Super's pages. I think just listing "Immeasurable" makes it more clear.
 
Ian did partially write the Encyclo-speed-ia along with Sega, so I consider him a more of a "proxy of God" because he usually just reiterates what Sega tells him when it comes to answering Sonic lore related questions on BumbleKast. He usually will state when something has no answer from Sega, such as when he asked why the Master Emerald could make Angel Island float when it had "no special properties".
At best his word could be considered secondary if it supports what’s in the games. Otherwise, the Bumblekast is just him sharing his opinions.
Plus the main reason they defeated Solaris (as said in the game) is by hitting his core, which Eggman outright says is his consciousness and the only thing not "super-dimensional" when it comes to his body.
The core is where his consciousness is, but no it’s not lower-dimensional compared to his body.
 
Personally I believe removing MFTL as a whole is jumping the gun a little too fast. Not super sure on it
I mean, every real feat they have is ok that level, every mftl feat on the super key is either alredy used for base characters, or is so low that base characters are already far above it, there is no point in them having mftl when the only real feats they have are the immeasurable ones, this is not different then when the pre stelar lifting strenght and the 4-A where removed, it is just redundant
 
At best his word could be considered secondary if it supports what’s in the games. Otherwise, the Bumblekast is just him sharing his opinions.

The core is where his consciousness is, but no it’s not lower-dimensional compared to his body.
Why do people still Solaris' core is lower dimensional despite there being literally no evidence of that? Elise says the core was large and powerful, so really the opposite is true.
 
I think the characters talking is just because it’s a scripted scene of them talking and Metal’s time stop just happened to coincide with it. The 20 count could also just be a fast counter, and not actually meant to represent 20 seconds.

Edit: turns out you can actually speed up the time you get unstuck by rotating the stick, so it could be a limited resistance of sorts
1: Scripted or not, they know Metal induced a Chaos Control, which would only make sense if they were conscious to experience, otherwise they wouldn't say anything.

2: Yeah they have resistance to it, hell even Base casts in SA2 battle can resist the Chaos Control time stop
 
I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that, after Eggman said it might be impossible to defeat a superdimensional being, that the thing Eggman said could be defeated was the one part that wasn’t superdimensional.

Not saying I agree with that interpretation but it’s easy to see how people would think that.
 
I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that, after Eggman said it might be impossible to defeat a superdimensional being, that the thing Eggman said could be defeated was the one part that wasn’t superdimensional.

Not saying I agree with that interpretation but it’s easy to see how people would think that.
Pretty sure he's referring to Solaris being Immortal and omnipresent.

Yeah I can kinda see that but then you would have to ignore Sonic breaking the armor that is supposed to protect Solaris.
It's all blatant ignorance and appealing to their narrative/headcanon.
 
I...suppose that makes sense. Don't feel too comfortable with full-on Immeasurable for the Titans, for instance, but the logic is fine enough, I guess.

Hesitant agree.
 
Sure but that would mean literally every boss on par with Super forms instantly becomes immeasurable.
Late response from me, but assuming you mean on par as in have been shown to combat Super Sonic going all-out, then they already should've been Immeasurable. For rando bosses that Sonic happened to go Super against but nothing implies he needed to go all out, they'd just at best scale off of base as there's no reason to assume Super Sonic has a set speed he can't go below. Super Sonic is as strong and as fast as Sonic needs it to be.
 
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