"With ups and downs, we proceed" Sonic the Hedgehog Upgrades and Downgrades thread

[Qawsedf234]

Team Dark's Team Blast is just Omega attacking, actually. Shadow just stops time with Chaos Control and Rouge lifts the robot up. I don’t know why Shadow would scale to an attack from Omega.

That is a good point since only Team Sonic and Chaotix shows them collectively attacking, though it should've probably been made in the OP then (though it also means Amy and Cream's sheer aura destroys robots but idk).

 

[omegabronic]

Team Blast is 3x * 8x at max level, since it's three people collectively working together. I get saying Shadow is above his 8x amp but 24x would involve being stronger than all of Team Dark working together at once.

I know you can technically trigger the move when you're down one or both other characters (which is what I think you're arguing), but contextually it's specifically a team move where all three are working together at once to attack their enemies.

well, i am arguing that the combined power of all the team members is shared between them, as in, all gain this combined power at once, hence why even when only 1 of them is attacking the result power is the combined attack power of all 3 members

His hidden potential is already 4x, so my assumption was that Cyber Super Sonic would be superior to Power Core amps.

If that doesn't work then I would be more for 3x than I would 24x. Especially without a hard number to back a larger multiplier.

ok then, noted

Team Dark's Team Blast is just Omega attacking, actually. Shadow just stops time with Chaos Control and Rouge lifts the robot up. I don’t know why Shadow would scale to an attack from Omega.

nah, Team Blast is said to be the 3 chars combining their power to unleash an attack, it can't be omega on his own since he needs the other 2 to combine his power with

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Nah, Team Blast is said to be the 3 chars combining their power to unleash an attack, it can't be omega on his own since he needs the other 2 to combine his power with

Nope.
"Combine their power" can mean the other two assist in their own way, either with their ability or with physical assistance. Shadow assists by using his power, stopping time, and Rouge assists by throwing Omega. It's not a combined AP at all.

 

[Theuser789]

nah, Team Blast is said to be the 3 chars combining their power to unleash an attack, it can't be omega on his own since he needs the other 2 to combine his power with

What we see>>>>>statements. Shadow and Rouge don't add any energy to Omega's attack, they "combine their powers" in other ways.

 

[JJSliderman]

Actually Team Blast in that case isn’t even 24x it’s just 8

 

[omegabronic]

Nope.
"Combine their power" can mean the other two assist in their own way, either with their ability or with physical assistance. Shadow assists by using his power, stopping time, and Rouge assists by throwing Omega. It's not a combined AP at all.

added another statement that states more clearly that they combine "strength"

What we see>>>>>statements. Shadow and Rouge don't add any energy to Omega's attack, they "combine their powers" in other ways.

how do you know? like, we don't even know how the Team Blast is made, if it is said that they are "combining their strength/power", so they must be combining to perform said blast


anyway i will count the votes finnally

 

[Theuser789]

Omega, we literally see they do the Team Blast. This is already accepted, that’s why Omega has "higher" with Chaos Inferno.

 

[omegabronic]

yeah, that would need to be removed if this CRT is accepted

 

[Theuser789]

But there’s no reason too. We see the blast coming from Omega himself. Shadow and Rouge "combine their powers" by stopping time and lifting Omega.

You are the one who needs to explain how they contributed raw power to Omega.

 

[omegabronic]

But there’s no reason too. We see the blast coming from Omega himself. Shadow and Rouge "combine their powers" by stopping time and lifting Omega.

You are the one who needs to explain how they contributed raw power to Omega.

dunno man, the statements say that they combined their strength to perform the attack, it is simply how the team blast works

altho, if you are really that reluctant, i can add a note of you disagreeing and then letting staff decide from there, i can see from the points you and me are bringing that this will prob go on in a back and forth of us repeating ourselves, so i will let the staff decides on this one

 

[Theuser789]

That statement doesn't override what we actually see. Especially with how vague "combining their powers" is. You need actual proof Shadow and Rouge contributed in raw power to the Team Blast, or you need to drop this.

 

[omegabronic]

That statement doesn't override what we actually see. Especially with how vague "combining their powers" is. You need actual proof Shadow and Rouge contributed in raw power to the Team Blast, or you need to drop this.

i did, it is said that the Team Blast combines their strength as well

While its true that the Team Blast in game only shows Omega contributing to the power, we can't ignore the statement that says that they are combining their power/strength, i believe that there is more for the Team Blast then what we see, it still needs to "charge up" so you can use the Team Blast, so maybe there's something more to it we don't know

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

added another statement that states more clearly that they combine "strength"e

My argument is literally the same for both terms. Combining a team's strength can allude to simply add their own usefulness.

We actually see how the move is performed, it's unlikely that the "combining strength/power" means a literal addition of energy of all three to perform the move, when the three of them use their "power" in ways that wouldn't contribute to the overall power of the blast at all. Shadow stops time to ensure the blast hits, Rouge provides height, and Omega provide the raw power/blast itself.
It's clear only Omega's power is actual raw power, whereas each of the team's power is alluding to their usefulness/useful traits in the move.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

i did, it is said that the Team Blast combines their strength as well

While its true that the Team Blast in game only shows Omega contributing to the power, we can't ignore the statement that says that they are combining their power/strength, i believe that there is more for the Team Blast then what we see, it still needs to "charge up" so you can use the Team Blast, so maybe there's something more to it we don't know

What you need to realize is that the statement can be interpreted in other ways that are not literal. We have visual evidence that support a more metaphorical interpretation.

Each of the character's strengths can be something else that is not raw power.
Shadow's strength is the way he can utilize his hax to stop time.
Rouge's strength is her flight
Omega's strength is his raw power.

Understand that the statement doesn't prove anything by itself when the visuals give us a clear-cut interpretation.

 

[omegabronic]

well, it is very odd for "strength" to be used to describe special abilities, specially with the rest of the text talking about exclusively of the raw power of the Team Blast

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

well, it is very odd for "strength" to be used to describe special abilities, specially with the rest of the text talking about exclusively of the raw power of the Team Blast

It is not odd for the term strength to refer to quality or special characteristic, that is one of the meanings of strength (a good characteristic)

The rest of the text wouldn't prove the interpretation of the first term, it is talking about the raw power of the Team Blast because it is very powerful because of the combination of Time Stop, High Ground and Omega's charged blast.

 

[omegabronic]

It is not odd for the term strength to refer to quality or special characteristic, that is one of the meanings of strength (a good characteristic)

The rest of the text wouldn't prove the interpretation of the first term, it is talking about the raw power of the Team Blast because it is very powerful because of the combination of Time Stop, High Ground and Omega's charged blast.

agree to disagree, let us let the staff decide on this one

 

[Theuser789]

While its true that the Team Blast in game only shows Omega contributing to the power, we can't ignore the statement that says that they are combining their power/strength, i believe that there is more for the Team Blast then what we see, it still needs to "charge up" so you can use the Team Blast, so maybe there's something more to it we don't know

This is all speculation. And speculation doesn't override what we see in game.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Omega's the only one attacking, so like... Idk what to make of this. Why does anyone else scale?

 

[Omnificence]

Is there any proof that the character's scale to the Chaos Emeralds' lifting strength? Because it looks like the feat was mostly done via something like Earth Manipulation or Telekinesis.

 

[omegabronic]

Is there any proof that the character's scale to the Chaos Emeralds' lifting strength? Because it looks like the feat was mostly done via something like Earth Manipulation or Telekinesis.

this is better to be asked in the Sonic general discussion thread rather than this thread that isn't covering it directly but only applying a recalc that affects it

 

[Omnificence]

this is better to be asked in the Sonic general discussion thread rather than this thread that isn't covering it directly but only applying a recalc that affects it

So, the Chaos Emeralds are only getting the lifting strength upgrade and nobody else?

 

[omegabronic]

So, the Chaos Emeralds are only getting the lifting strength upgrade and nobody else?

not what i said, i just asked for you to ask the question you questioned earllier in the general thread to keep this thread in topic with what is actually proposing

 

[Omnificence]

not what i said, i just asked for you to ask the question you questioned earllier in the general thread to keep this thread in topic with what is actually proposing

I'm just saying I don't really buy characters getting Multi-Stellar lifting strength solely because they have a Chaos Emerald since there aren't many feats of any of the cast performing such levels of strength. If anything, it mostly looks like the emeralds are shifting the continents via means like Earth Manipulation or whatnot.

 

[omegabronic]

I'm just saying I don't really buy characters getting Multi-Stellar lifting strength solely because they have a Chaos Emerald since there aren't many feats of any of the cast performing such levels of strength. If anything, it mostly looks like the emeralds are shifting the continents via means like Earth Manipulation or whatnot.

this is not the thread to discuss that, LS is not even listed in the sandbox in the OP, we have a general discussion thread for Sonic, you can ask your unrelated to this thread concerns there instead of here

 

[Omnificence]

this is not the thread to discuss that, LS is not even listed in the sandbox in the OP, we have a general discussion thread for Sonic, you can ask your unrelated to this thread concerns there instead of here

Alright, fair enough; my bad.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I think most of this is fine, I'm a little neutral on the team blast multiplier but not straight up against it but I'm fine with what those knowledgeable on Sonic collectively agree on regarding that.

 

[CloverDragon03]

@Maverick_Zero_X @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus

Apologies for the ping, but could you please provide your input on this thread?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Neutral on the Team Blast multiplier, but the rest of the proposals look good.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, Team blast multiplier looks weird, I guess disagree. Rest looks okay.

 

[CloverDragon03]

With this level of input, the thread can be applied and then closed. Everything's been accepted except for the Team Blast multiplier, which seems to have been rejected

 

[omegabronic]

yep, Shake applied to the actual blog, will begin editing tommorow when i am not half asleep, good night people

 

[Agnaa]

@omegabronic we don't allow calculation values to be included in the main text of the page any more, so I undid your edit.

Please refrain from incorporating scaling chains and calculation values into the character profiles, including metrics like Energy/TNT numbers. It is preferred that such information be presented in the form of notes or explanations, or alternatively, be placed within the appropriate section on the verse page.

Please fix any other pages where you've made this error, and be more careful about it in the future.

EDIT: Found another

 

[omegabronic]

@omegabronic we don't allow calculation values to be included in the main text of the page any more, so I undid your edit.

Please fix any other pages where you've made this error, and be more careful about it in the future.

EDIT: Found another

oh i didn't knew that, sorry will fix it

 

[Agnaa]

@omegabronic Why did you change this character to High 4-C+? The profile they scale to doesn't have the +, and the calculation linked in the top of this CRT is only 2,165 Quettatons, far from deserving a + (it needs to be about 100x higher to reach that).

 

[omegabronic]

@omegabronic Why did you change this character to High 4-C+? The profile they scale to doesn't have the +, and the calculation linked in the top of this CRT is only 2,165 Quettatons, far from deserving a + (it needs to be about 100x higher to reach that).

previously accepted multipliers now reach that level, in the sandbox and blog in the OP you can see them, this character in question scaling to above 3 foe due to that

 

[Agnaa]

previously accepted multipliers now reach that level, in the sandbox and blog in the OP you can see them, this character in question scaling to above 3 foe due to that

The highest you talk about there is 24x, and you need to scale above ~12 foe to get High 4-C+

 

[omegabronic]

The highest you talk about there is 24x, and you need to scale above ~12 foe to get High 4-C+

i see, ok then they scale above 4 foe so that was also a mistake from my part, lucky for me not many chars to change this time, will begin to remove their "+" symbol then

+ Symbols being my bane again