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Super form removal of a redundant tier part 1: speedy gonzales

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omegabronic

omegabronic

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Hello, basically this is removing the "mftl+" part of the super forms profiles, why you may ask, well it is because due to the feats listed not really being feats that they scale to, all of the feats featured in the super forms profile's either base sonic already scales far higher than due to the multipliers and scaling chains or are really redundant and not feats but upscaling that is true regardless since they have feats above it, so super forms should scale to their real feats, aka the immeasurable ones

"Far faster than his Base and is superior the likes of the Final Egg Blaster and the Babylon Garden" this is true regardless of the mftl+ due to immeasurable speed feats they already have

"outpaced the stars while fighting the Mother Wisp" this is an inferior value to what the base cast already scales to, plus it was a casual feat from super sonic

"Quickly travelled from Earth to the Nonaggression Zone alongside the Eggmobile to fight Ultimate Gemerl."and this is straight up already used to scale the base cast while also a casual feat from super sonic

So for similar reasons for why the 4-A and pre stellar LS ratings were removed, so should the mftl+ tier, super forms should only be immeasurable since those are the only feats they really have, all else in the profile is pure upscaling that is true regardless of the mftl+ tier and is as such redundant

Agree: @LephyrTheRevanchist @Maverick_Zero_X @Starter_Pack
 
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I guess now we can say Metal’s Chaos Control works on immeasurable speed characters.

But also it feels weird how Perfect Chaos will be immeasurable but base Sonic won’t.
 
No, I meant Sonic beating Perfect Chaos is an outlier, I agree with Buffed Chaos Control
 
JJSliderman said:
I guess now we can say Metal’s Chaos Control works on immeasurable speed characters.

But also it feels weird how Perfect Chaos will be immeasurable but base Sonic won’t.
Click to expand...
We can say that chaos control i genetal works on immeasurable beings
 
I remember seeing a manual scan basically saying Super Sonic’s speed is immeasurable. Not that it would matter on its own but it’s funny to mention.
 
Chaos Control affecting immeasurable speed Super forms simply means the degree of Chaos Control is powerful enough to do so.

Plus, are we forgetting that those guys can decrease the time spent in stopped time? Just by moving around, in fact dialogue implies Knuckles and Tails were conscious during the time stop and commented on Metal being able to do it.

I'll get the scan
 
The problem with Immeasurable Super forms is that it's only ever implied just once in the series with the Solaris fight. Not only is 06's events erased from the characters' minds (Don't use the Japanese TSR script as an argument because they never outright confirm they remember Solaris, plus Ian doesn't think they do either), we never see Super forms perform any feat on that level in later games, and the only other time-controlling powerhouse that's remotely on the same level as Solaris is the Time Eater. Even then, TE can still slow both Classic and Modern Super Sonic down with his time manipulation powers, therefore debunking the whole immeasurable argument.

I actually did ask Ian a question about the whole "past, present and future" thing and he said that they could only defeat Solaris because he outright turned the timeline into "miasmic soup". I wouldn't say it completely debunks Immeasurable speed arguments but it's mainly to debunk anyone trying to give Super Sonic any form of Temporal Omnipresence.
 
The_Fastest_Savior said:
Chaos Control affecting immeasurable speed Super forms simply means the degree of Chaos Control is powerful enough to do so.

Plus, are we forgetting that those guys can decrease the time spent in stopped time? Just by moving around, in fact dialogue implies Knuckles and Tails were conscious during the time stop and commented on Metal being able to do it.

I'll get the scan
Click to expand...
I think the characters talking is just because it’s a scripted scene of them talking and Metal’s time stop just happened to coincide with it. The 20 count could also just be a fast counter, and not actually meant to represent 20 seconds.

Edit: turns out you can actually speed up the time you get unstuck by rotating the stick, so it could be a limited resistance of sorts
 
That's amazing cause it's a Limited Resistance to Super Chaos Control and normal Chaos Control already affects people with resistance.
 
BlastX said:
That's amazing cause it's a Limited Resistance to Super Chaos Control and normal Chaos Control already affects people with resistance.
Click to expand...
Acctually it is an enhanced resistance, there is no "super chaos control", it is just "chaos control", thar just shows that super forms have enhanced resistance to time stop, but anyway, that is a thing for another thread, this one is just removing the mftl+ speed
 
MrMTurbo said:
The problem with Immeasurable Super forms is that it's only ever implied just once in the series with the Solaris fight. Not only is 06's events erased from the characters' minds (Don't use the Japanese TSR script as an argument because they never outright confirm they remember Solaris, plus Ian doesn't think they do either), we never see Super forms perform any feat on that level in later games, and the only other time-controlling powerhouse that's remotely on the same level as Solaris is the Time Eater. Even then, TE can still slow both Classic and Modern Super Sonic down with his time manipulation powers, therefore debunking the whole immeasurable argument.

I actually did ask Ian a question about the whole "past, present and future" thing and he said that they could only defeat Solaris because he outright turned the timeline into "miasmic soup". I wouldn't say it completely debunks Immeasurable speed arguments but it's mainly to debunk anyone trying to give Super Sonic any form of Temporal Omnipresence.
Click to expand...
Ian is not word of god on Sonic 06.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Not entirely sure about it. Wouldn’t the speed of Super Forms also vary like their AP?
Click to expand...
It does vary, but the thing is that the only real feats we have for them is the immeasurable ones, all the other are either not feata but just upscaling, which is true without the mftl+ since they have feata above it, or are so small that base characters are already above it by dozens of times and are done by super forms in a very casual manner, so we should scale them to the feats they acctually have, since now they are just "faster than base form" which is true regardless because of their own feats
 
MrMTurbo said:
Even then, TE can still slow both Classic and Modern Super Sonic down with his time manipulation powers, therefore debunking the whole immeasurable argument.
Click to expand...
Time manipulation affecting immeasurables doesn’t debunk them having immeasurable speed, it just means it’s potent enough to affect immeasurable characters.
MrMTurbo said:
I actually did ask Ian a question about the whole "past, present and future" thing and he said that they could only defeat Solaris because he outright turned the timeline into "miasmic soup". I wouldn't say it completely debunks Immeasurable speed arguments but it's mainly to debunk anyone trying to give Super Sonic any form of Temporal Omnipresence.
Click to expand...
Ian is not only not WOG but if time fuckery is the reason why they were able to beat Solaris, then there would’ve been no reason to attack it in the past, present, and future simultaneously (as Eggman states defeating it in the present would do nothing).
 
omegabronic said:
It does vary, but the thing is that the only real feats we have for them is the immeasurable ones, all the other are either not feata but just upscaling, which is true without the mftl+ since they have feata above it, or are so small that base characters are already above it by dozens of times and are done by super forms in a very casual manner, so we should scale them to the feats they acctually have, since now they are just "faster than base form" which is true regardless because of their own feats
Click to expand...
The Exception feat technically is MFTL+, although I think the premise of the calc is flawed so it might end up being a bit feat.
 
omegabronic said:
It does vary, but the thing is that the only real feats we have for them is the immeasurable ones, all the other are either not feata but just upscaling, which is true without the mftl+ since they have feata above it, or are so small that base characters are already above it by dozens of times and are done by super forms in a very casual manner, so we should scale them to the feats they acctually have, since now they are just "faster than base form" which is true regardless because of their own feats
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it just be a "likely far higher"?
 
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