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suiryu upgrade
- Thread starter Jonathanlighter
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I'm pretty sure most people on close-tiers could injure each other's pinky toe, even when heavily injured.
Plus, while Bakuzan as a whole may have city-level durability or whatever rating he has, Suiryu still basically just broke a toe. It's like attacking Bakuzan's most vulnerable / weakest area on his whole body.
Plus, while Bakuzan as a whole may have city-level durability or whatever rating he has, Suiryu still basically just broke a toe. It's like attacking Bakuzan's most vulnerable / weakest area on his whole body.
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Seeing that Suiryu managed to withstand a full-on barrage of attacks from Bakuzan (whilst he was already severely injured) and could still harm him (albeit on a minor scale) then if he were in peak condition, it shouldn't be unreasonable to assume a full powered punch would do some damage against Bakuzan.
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Of course. Bakuzan is a lot less powerful than Gouketsu and it would be not be unreasonable for Bakuzan to suffer some damage if Suiryu hit him with his fully-powered punch.
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Mountain level? Look at Gouketsu's feat of destroying the walls of stadium when he intimidated Bakuzan, are we sure that Suiryu could even replicate that feat?
Suiryu's most destructive move so far was smashing the fighting ring in half (and then subsequently forcing half of it into the air). From his showings he's not anywhere near Mountain-level. (Let's remember that we're only getting Bakuzan's durability from scaling too.)
Suiryu's most destructive move so far was smashing the fighting ring in half (and then subsequently forcing half of it into the air). From his showings he's not anywhere near Mountain-level. (Let's remember that we're only getting Bakuzan's durability from scaling too.)
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@Damage With all due respect, are you again mistaking Attack Potency for Area of Effect? Do you realize that Carnage Kabuto's Wall level, Monster Garou is Building level and Armored Boros is Steet level with your reasoning?
Also you're wrong about Suiryu's "most destructive move so far." He also has a Large Town level feat. Not that it matters much since he's clearly much stronger than people with City level stuff.
Also you're wrong about Suiryu's "most destructive move so far." He also has a Large Town level feat. Not that it matters much since he's clearly much stronger than people with City level stuff.
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I guess "Mountain level (Can casually one shot Demons while heavily restrained. Even while in such a weakened state where he was practically dead, he was able to withstand beatings from Dragon level Bakuzan and broke one of his bones. As a Dragon level, Bakuzan should be significantly stronger than Demon level Beast King, who's much stronger than Armored Gorilla, who's stronger than Mosquito Girl, who can effortlessly demolish chunks of beginning of series Genos' body in a single hit)"
I just wished a Dragon level had some impressive feat to scale from. I don't like this constant stacked hierarchy of scaling all from a feat complete fodder performed. But I suppose it's the best we have for now. I'd also prefer Gouketsu to just be "Mountain level" and not "At least" until we get further information on his power and how he stacks up to the rest of the Monster Association.
I just wished a Dragon level had some impressive feat to scale from. I don't like this constant stacked hierarchy of scaling all from a feat complete fodder performed. But I suppose it's the best we have for now. I'd also prefer Gouketsu to just be "Mountain level" and not "At least" until we get further information on his power and how he stacks up to the rest of the Monster Association.
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- #174
but he was 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% dead...Antvasima said:
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- #175
so? several dbs characters are UNIVERSE LEVEL. and 99.9% of their feats are like tree level.... what are you getting at?Damage3245 said:
powerscaling>>>>>>>>>feats
otherwise a lot of dbs characters would be like 9-B
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I'm sorry but you're kinda fanboying now. Yeah Suiryu was extremely weakened and pretty much on the verge of death. And I'm fine with him being Mountain level. But please don't exaggerate what happened that much. At least unless you're joking or purposely using hyperbole or something.Jonathanlighter said:
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ryu, you said you wanted an impressive feat from a monster so we can properly scale right?
WHAT ABOUT THIS?
i asked for this to be calced like 6000 years ago, but no one did it...
imo, this is a very impressive feat.
and this monster is like demon level IIRC.
WHAT ABOUT THIS?
i asked for this to be calced like 6000 years ago, but no one did it...
imo, this is a very impressive feat.
and this monster is like demon level IIRC.
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- #178
and im not exaggerating. bakuzan said that suiryu was basically dead in the chapter. taking a full on beating from TWO dragon level monsters is not something to ignore.Ryukama said:
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No i want a proper feat Dragon levels can scale to. That way we can give people on par with Demons and people on par with Dragons different coherant rankings. Instead of constant scaling from fodder. But what I personally want to happen doesn't at all matter for these ratings.
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- #180
what about the feat i just showed you? is it possible to get that calced?
what do you think it is? 7-B? 7-A? im genuinely curious.
what do you think it is? 7-B? 7-A? im genuinely curious.
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Yeah but he wasn't "99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% dead". I mean he was still somewhat able to move and function.Jonathanlighter said:
Are you really telling me that with a mere 1/10 quindecillionth of his power Suiryu can harm a Dragon level? Galaxy level Suiryu? That is a complete exaggeration.
I'm not a calcer so I wouldn't be able to guess what level that feat is. It's likely possible to be quantified though.Jonathanlighter said:
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- #182
can we get a calcer up in here to do it? sorry for the ******** demands...
and maybe i exaggerated a little, but just cuz suiryu is 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% dead doesnt mean he can ONLY use 1/10 quindecillionth of his power... so your argument is kind of flawed here. but whatever, thats not important.
can you do the upgrades ryu?
and maybe i exaggerated a little, but just cuz suiryu is 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% dead doesnt mean he can ONLY use 1/10 quindecillionth of his power... so your argument is kind of flawed here. but whatever, thats not important.
can you do the upgrades ryu?
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- #183
oh, and will choze be upgraded to 7-A as well?
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I'm not sure if anyone's interested. You'd have to politely ask someone on their wall.
Yes it does. If 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of his power is gone or that amount of him is "dead", then Suiryu only has 1/10 quindecillionth of his strength left to use. Even then, I'm sorry but you completely exaggerated, not just "a little", and assumed a ridiculously high multiplier out of nothing but hype. But that's irrelevant now I guess.
Since Ant gave AMM permission first and he might want to be the one to do it, I'll wait until he responds. Then do it myself if he won't.
Yes it does. If 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of his power is gone or that amount of him is "dead", then Suiryu only has 1/10 quindecillionth of his strength left to use. Even then, I'm sorry but you completely exaggerated, not just "a little", and assumed a ridiculously high multiplier out of nothing but hype. But that's irrelevant now I guess.
Since Ant gave AMM permission first and he might want to be the one to do it, I'll wait until he responds. Then do it myself if he won't.
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Powerscaling is good and I don't mean it shouldn't be used. I just prefer to err on the side of caution and use feats primarily along with context. Of course, different series work differently and the same goes for some attacks (like Vegito having Universal-levels of destruction but only causing explosions the size of city-blocks).
Personally I don't think either the feats or the scaling supports Suiryu having mountain-busting level attack potency...
Personally I don't think either the feats or the scaling supports Suiryu having mountain-busting level attack potency...
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- #186
ok
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@Damage Okay then. Armored Boros got hurt by an attack that only cracked the wall and he doesn't have other feats. To be on the "err side", he's Street level.
Carnage Kabuto's destruction at most made craters around the building. And he's got no other feats. He's now Wall level.
Monster Garou's greatest destructive feats are destroying massive rocks. He's now Building level.
Suiryu is several levels far beyond multiple people with mid end City level feats (Fodder Genos and Demon level Beefcake). He does have scaling and feats to support being Mountain level. If you're now starting to acknowledge Attack Potency and powerscaling, this case is not different than Vegito's or the others I've listed.
Carnage Kabuto's destruction at most made craters around the building. And he's got no other feats. He's now Wall level.
Monster Garou's greatest destructive feats are destroying massive rocks. He's now Building level.
Suiryu is several levels far beyond multiple people with mid end City level feats (Fodder Genos and Demon level Beefcake). He does have scaling and feats to support being Mountain level. If you're now starting to acknowledge Attack Potency and powerscaling, this case is not different than Vegito's or the others I've listed.
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- #188
@ryukama
exactly, if we go by that logic, most dbs characters would be like wall level. SEVERAL dbs characters are universe level, yet 99.999999% of their feats are like WALL LEVEL.
so i guess we gotta downgrade hit, android 17, android 18, krillin, yamcha, ssb goku, etc. to like 9-B.
flawless logic right there
exactly, if we go by that logic, most dbs characters would be like wall level. SEVERAL dbs characters are universe level, yet 99.999999% of their feats are like WALL LEVEL.
so i guess we gotta downgrade hit, android 17, android 18, krillin, yamcha, ssb goku, etc. to like 9-B.
flawless logic right there
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> Okay then. Armored Boros got hurt by an attack that only cracked the wall and he doesn't have other feats besides powerscaling. To be on the "err side", he's Street level.
That would be ignoring context and other feats.
> Carnage Kabuto's destruction at most made craters around the building. And he's got no other feats. He's now Wall level.
That's also ignoring context; he is a Dragon-level threat and by defintion not wall-level. A lack of destructive feats does not necessarily mean ranking a character with the lowest possible rating.
> Monster Garou's greatest destructive feats are destroying massive rocks. He's not Building level.
Ignoring the feats Garo has of wounding S-class heroes that have higher durability than Building-level.
> Suiryu is several levels far beyond multiple people with mid end City level feats (Fodder Genos and Demon level Beefcake). He does have scaling to support being Mountain level.
Suiryu is stronger than those characters, I agree. That does not necessarily mean he can destroy a larger area / hurt a character with a higher durability that what those characters can hurt.
Despite being Demon-level, Beefcake has amazing destructive feats. This does not mean that every single character portrayed as being more powerful than Beefcake can destroy the same, or harder things than him.
Once again; I'm not stating that going purely by feats is a good thing. Just that it gives a better indication than mindless powerscaling that doesn't take into account context and other factors.
That would be ignoring context and other feats.
> Carnage Kabuto's destruction at most made craters around the building. And he's got no other feats. He's now Wall level.
That's also ignoring context; he is a Dragon-level threat and by defintion not wall-level. A lack of destructive feats does not necessarily mean ranking a character with the lowest possible rating.
> Monster Garou's greatest destructive feats are destroying massive rocks. He's not Building level.
Ignoring the feats Garo has of wounding S-class heroes that have higher durability than Building-level.
> Suiryu is several levels far beyond multiple people with mid end City level feats (Fodder Genos and Demon level Beefcake). He does have scaling to support being Mountain level.
Suiryu is stronger than those characters, I agree. That does not necessarily mean he can destroy a larger area / hurt a character with a higher durability that what those characters can hurt.
Despite being Demon-level, Beefcake has amazing destructive feats. This does not mean that every single character portrayed as being more powerful than Beefcake can destroy the same, or harder things than him.
Once again; I'm not stating that going purely by feats is a good thing. Just that it gives a better indication than mindless powerscaling that doesn't take into account context and other factors.
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- #190
perhaps we should upgrade suiryu to at least 7-A.
and since choze (who is demon level most likely) scales to suiryu, he's also 7-A.
and since every s class hero is supposed to be able to defeat at least one demon level monster, every s class hero should be upgraded to 7-A.
what do you think ryu?
and since choze (who is demon level most likely) scales to suiryu, he's also 7-A.
and since every s class hero is supposed to be able to defeat at least one demon level monster, every s class hero should be upgraded to 7-A.
what do you think ryu?
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yes it does. thats how powerscaling works. if character A destroys a city and character B is stronger than character A, then character B is automatically city level as well.Damage3245 said:
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Stronger, yes. More destructive? Not necessarily.Jonathanlighter said:
That's part of the context I mentioned.
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furthermore, saying that suiryu cant be mountain level cuz he has no feats on that level is ALSO ignoring context. cuz bakuzan is a dragon level threat, so he's automatically stronger than the sea king who is AT LEAST on par with beginning of series genos (who easily performed a city level feat). therefore bakuzan is AT THE VERY least, city level. and a 99% dead suiryu injured him. so mountain level seems accurate if you ask me
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You do realize I don't actually believe these things right? I'm only demonstrating how ridiculous your arguments of ignoring powerscaling and going by feats/Area of Effect only are.
"Suiryu is stronger than those characters, I agree. That does not necessarily mean he can destroy a larger area / hurt a character with a higher durability that what those characters can hurt."
Suiryu has shown to be vastly stronger than characters with mid end City level Attack Potency. Get this "destroy a larger area" stuff out of your mind. We don't rate characters like this. And you admitted we don't rate other characters like this.
Just in the way it doesn't matter that Monster Garou's destructive feats only reach Building level when he scales to Planet levels. How Carnage Kabuto's destructive feats only reaching Wall level doesn't matter when he scales to City levels. How Armored Boros's destructive feats only reaching Street level don't matter when he scales to higher levels. Or how Vegito's destructive feats only reaching City Block level don't matter when he scales to Universal.
Then Suiryu's destructive feats only reaching Large Town don't matter when he is vastly superior to people with City level feats. What Suiryu has destroyed does not matter and you're putting him on a weird double standard you're not putting any of these other people on.
"Suiryu is stronger than those characters, I agree. That does not necessarily mean he can destroy a larger area / hurt a character with a higher durability that what those characters can hurt."
Suiryu has shown to be vastly stronger than characters with mid end City level Attack Potency. Get this "destroy a larger area" stuff out of your mind. We don't rate characters like this. And you admitted we don't rate other characters like this.
Just in the way it doesn't matter that Monster Garou's destructive feats only reach Building level when he scales to Planet levels. How Carnage Kabuto's destructive feats only reaching Wall level doesn't matter when he scales to City levels. How Armored Boros's destructive feats only reaching Street level don't matter when he scales to higher levels. Or how Vegito's destructive feats only reaching City Block level don't matter when he scales to Universal.
Then Suiryu's destructive feats only reaching Large Town don't matter when he is vastly superior to people with City level feats. What Suiryu has destroyed does not matter and you're putting him on a weird double standard you're not putting any of these other people on.
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Okay, I'll be stopping here. I just wanted to make my point that I don't think the feats or scaling support an upgrade.
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- #197
@ryukama
"Suiryu has shown to be vastly stronger than characters with mid end City level Attack Potency."
which characters are you talking about?
"Suiryu has shown to be vastly stronger than characters with mid end City level Attack Potency."
which characters are you talking about?
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@Jonathan Fodder Genos and Demon level Beefcake.
@Damage "I just wanted to make my point that I don't think the feats or scaling support an upgrade."
Except they do, and your only argument they don't is simply the same "they don't destroy much" stuff which we've already extensively gone through why it isn't valid on this site and you've now acknowledged isn't.
We rate characters here on the potency and energy values of their attacks. Not on Area of Effect. If you'd rather we not do this and go with your previous suggestion of things like not rating Vaccine Man's City level feat 7-B cause it didn't destroy a city. Or not rate someone vastly stronger than a 7-B as that cause they didn't destroy a city. Then I'm sorry but you should probably go on a different site cause we do not rate anyone in this matter and likely never will.
@Damage "I just wanted to make my point that I don't think the feats or scaling support an upgrade."
Except they do, and your only argument they don't is simply the same "they don't destroy much" stuff which we've already extensively gone through why it isn't valid on this site and you've now acknowledged isn't.
We rate characters here on the potency and energy values of their attacks. Not on Area of Effect. If you'd rather we not do this and go with your previous suggestion of things like not rating Vaccine Man's City level feat 7-B cause it didn't destroy a city. Or not rate someone vastly stronger than a 7-B as that cause they didn't destroy a city. Then I'm sorry but you should probably go on a different site cause we do not rate anyone in this matter and likely never will.
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