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suiryu upgrade
- Thread starter Jonathanlighter
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So are we assuming that the huge scaling chain places all Dragon level threats at mountain level now? Up to this point it was only given to characters way above regular dragon level threats, like Bang.
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it was already decided, stop itBlahblah9755 said:
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Why? I'm fine with it, I'm just making sure, since there are other dragon levels that should be upgraded in that case.
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which dragon levels do you have in mind?
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> Except they do, and your only argument they don't is simply the same "they don't destroy much" stuff we've already extensively gone through why it isn't valid on this site and you've now acknowledged aren't.
Suiryu has shown himself to be stronger than Demon-level Choze, fair enough. But I don't think he's been shown to be stronger than Beefcake.
Suiryu has shown himself to be stronger than Demon-level Choze, fair enough. But I don't think he's been shown to be stronger than Beefcake.
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Dragon level threats like Fuhrer ugly (especially when transformed) or Melzalgald are only being rated at city level, but if we rate characters like Bakuzan at mountain level for being dragon level it would make sense for them to be treated the same.
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@Damage Choze doesn't have a disaster ranking. And the fact that while in an extremely weakened and almost dead state he's able to withstand attacks from and break the bones of a Dragon level should put him considerably above Demon level Beefcake. Or at least above BoS Genos who couldn't even take on regular Demons that well at first.
@BlahBlah It's not "all Dragon levels are Mountain level." It's the especially powerful ones that are rated as such. Like Overgrown Rover, Human Garou at his strongest, Psykos, etc.
@BlahBlah It's not "all Dragon levels are Mountain level." It's the especially powerful ones that are rated as such. Like Overgrown Rover, Human Garou at his strongest, Psykos, etc.
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Gotta thank you for the correction there, I do picture Choze as a Demon-level threat but you're right that he doesn't have an official disaster ranking yet.
I don't agree that managing to break the pinky toe of a Dragon-level monster (a Dragon-level monster that is relatively weak compared to Gouketsu at least), even while wounded, makes him considerably above Beefcake at all. It's powerscaling, sure, but I don't think you can accurately judge Suiryu's peak attack potency based on him just breaking a monster's toe.
I don't agree that managing to break the pinky toe of a Dragon-level monster (a Dragon-level monster that is relatively weak compared to Gouketsu at least), even while wounded, makes him considerably above Beefcake at all. It's powerscaling, sure, but I don't think you can accurately judge Suiryu's peak attack potency based on him just breaking a monster's toe.
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I see, I didn't think that causing a minor injury (like breaking a toe), even while near death, would be cause for a tier jump, and assumed that Bakuzan was being placed at mountain level. I would assume that he'd be roughly equal to Bakuzan at full strength from that, not "especially powerful" compared to him.
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The only thing we have to compare them is that both of them got manhandled by Gouketsu, and Suiryu (while damaged) got stomped into the ground by Bakuzan.
Beyond that, there's not a whole lot pointing to them being equals in strength.
Beyond that, there's not a whole lot pointing to them being equals in strength.
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If he was able to break a Dragon Class' toe while his 'arms and legs are broken' it means he can still hurt him. So what are the implications of if he fought Bakuzan at full health? That's another reason for why the tier jump seems likely.
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Like COB said, it's the fact that while losing almost all of his strength, limbs being broken and on the verge of death that he was able to deal minor injury towards Bakuzan that his being stronger than Beefcake comes from. Along with being able to survive attacks from him. Not the mere fact that he broke his toe.
Even then, Suiryu should still be vastly above BoS Genos, who gets practically one shot by lower end Demons, due to this feat.
Even then, Suiryu should still be vastly above BoS Genos, who gets practically one shot by lower end Demons, due to this feat.
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I actually think there was a high likelihood that transformed Mosquito Girl was High Demon alongside the Beast King too. But yeah pretty much that.
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Being able to break one of the smallest and weakest bones on the body doesn't mean you're equal, Suiryu could be 1/5 Bakuzan's strength and that wouldn't mean he couldn't cause light wounds to him. Assuming that being severely injured and having broken bones would cause a tier drop seems like too much of an assumption. Especially considering this is fiction where people can fight through fatal injuries and broken bones without even a strength drop, just look at Bakuzan, who's walking on and stomping through the ground with the same foot just fine right after his toe's been broken.
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When Bakuzan is stronger than someone, who's stronger than someone who's someone who can casually one shot BoS Genos.
And Suiryu while in an explicitly far weakened state, being described as pretty much dead, having all his limbs broken and barely able to move not only breaking Bakuzan's toe but also survive attacks from him, then it's pretty reasonable to say that at his full 100% power Suiryu is rather considerably stronger than BoS Genos. At least 7x stronger.
However I'm fine with whatever we rate him as at this point if the rest of staff agree with it.
And Suiryu while in an explicitly far weakened state, being described as pretty much dead, having all his limbs broken and barely able to move not only breaking Bakuzan's toe but also survive attacks from him, then it's pretty reasonable to say that at his full 100% power Suiryu is rather considerably stronger than BoS Genos. At least 7x stronger.
However I'm fine with whatever we rate him as at this point if the rest of staff agree with it.
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Dude only his toe was broken.
And if he was untouchable and Suiryu was on a completely lower scale, he wouldn't be able to even dent that toe. He was still able to hurt him
And if he was untouchable and Suiryu was on a completely lower scale, he wouldn't be able to even dent that toe. He was still able to hurt him
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I'm not saying injured Suiryu is on a different scale from Bakuzan, when injured, he's still city level. But breaking someone's small toe doesn't indicate that you're their equal, only that you can just barely damage them, so being way stronger at full power doesn't mean he's gonna suddenly be way above Bakuzan and other Dragon level threats, certainly not to the degree of characters at or above Bang's level.
@Ryu the same can be said about and Dragon level threat, and we still rate characters like Fuhrer Ugly, whose full power is well above his dragon level base as "at least city level"
@Ryu the same can be said about and Dragon level threat, and we still rate characters like Fuhrer Ugly, whose full power is well above his dragon level base as "at least city level"
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Why is Bakuzan being discussed for an upgrade? This thread is for Suiryu and Gouketsu. There are no reasons for Bakuzan to join them at mountain level.
As for Suiryu, I think an easy justification for mountain level could just be "can injure Bakuzan, who far surpasses monsters who can one shot Genos, while in a near death state". It's kinda hard to argue against that.
As for Suiryu, I think an easy justification for mountain level could just be "can injure Bakuzan, who far surpasses monsters who can one shot Genos, while in a near death state". It's kinda hard to argue against that.
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@Blahblah Not to the point where someone who has lost almost all of their power and while in a vastly weakened state being able to somewhat do damage to a Dragon and survive attacks from them.
I think we should be at least somewhat conservative and not just rate any person on Dragon level as 7-A. But Suiryu has shown to be on the higher end scale such as Bang (Not saying Suiryu's as strong as Bang but both of those guys have shown to be considerably higher than most heroes who deal with Dragons) If you think Ugly is high end too alright but I still think 7-A should only be reserved to a few Dragons or heroes that show to be rather higher than normal.
I think we should be at least somewhat conservative and not just rate any person on Dragon level as 7-A. But Suiryu has shown to be on the higher end scale such as Bang (Not saying Suiryu's as strong as Bang but both of those guys have shown to be considerably higher than most heroes who deal with Dragons) If you think Ugly is high end too alright but I still think 7-A should only be reserved to a few Dragons or heroes that show to be rather higher than normal.
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Since when was Suiryu's arms broken? I know there was a moment after he got punched by Gouketsu where he thought his arm might be broken, but not sure if we saw it after that point get confirmed.
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@Amlad he isn't, what's being discussed is whether Suiryu is equal to or significantly stronger than Bakuzan
@Ryu, sorry I was referring to what you said about Bakuzan when I brought up the dragon levels.
I just don't think Suiryu breaking Bakuzan's toe is enough to be considered vastly above Bakuzan, since dealing light damage while severely injured is very different from being comparable to someone while severely injured. Though I guess now that I think about it taking Bakuzan's attacks while that injured should be enough to indicate he's vastly above Bakuzan in durability, which his AP should be able to scale to. I guess mountain level's fine for him.
@Ryu, sorry I was referring to what you said about Bakuzan when I brought up the dragon levels.
I just don't think Suiryu breaking Bakuzan's toe is enough to be considered vastly above Bakuzan, since dealing light damage while severely injured is very different from being comparable to someone while severely injured. Though I guess now that I think about it taking Bakuzan's attacks while that injured should be enough to indicate he's vastly above Bakuzan in durability, which his AP should be able to scale to. I guess mountain level's fine for him.
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Nobody's saying he's vastly above Bakuzan. Rather that he's vastly above BoS Genos and at his full 100% power he should at the very least be somewhat comparable to Bakuzan, considering that he can still do minor damage towards and survive attacks from him while in such a state.
Like I said though I honestly don't care much anymore and I'm fine with whatever the rest of staff think is best.
Like I said though I honestly don't care much anymore and I'm fine with whatever the rest of staff think is best.
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Okay, you're scaling a hypothetical Suiryu to Bakuzan but what are you scaling Bakuzan to? Other Dragon-level threats?
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It's not a hypothetical Suiryu. We know that a full powered Suiryu exists and has appeared within the series. And why shouldn't Bakuzan be scaled to other Dragon levels?
AMM can handle the scaling or the profile revising if he wishes to.
AMM can handle the scaling or the profile revising if he wishes to.
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I upgraded Suiryu and Gouketsu's profiles. Though I'm not sure whether Choze and Bakuzan should be upgraded or not. Like I've kinda said multiple times though, I really don't care for this topic much anymore. I'm fine with what others decide would be best.
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No problem. I'm going to bed for now.
Since it seems some people don't think Choze was quite on par with Suiryu. And to me scaling Bakuzan 7-A to Suiryu when Suiryu is 7-A to Bakuzan seems a bit circular and most people appeared fine keeping him at least 7-B.
I'll just leave this open for now so others to say whether Choze and Bakuzan should scale. I'm fine with whatever most people decide with this and I can upgrade the profiles tomorrow unless another staff member wants to.
Since it seems some people don't think Choze was quite on par with Suiryu. And to me scaling Bakuzan 7-A to Suiryu when Suiryu is 7-A to Bakuzan seems a bit circular and most people appeared fine keeping him at least 7-B.
I'll just leave this open for now so others to say whether Choze and Bakuzan should scale. I'm fine with whatever most people decide with this and I can upgrade the profiles tomorrow unless another staff member wants to.
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1. Dont forgot he caught him off gaurd when he broke his horns so Choze cant use his enegry attacks anymoreMuuuuh said:
2. even if he not 100% equal to Choze he is definitely comparable to him,this is stupid to think he is mountain level when he has such trouble against Choze who city level if he really was mountain level he would one shot him
the breaking's toe part of Bakuzan is probably PIS or it just not really mean somthing i mean is just toe,Cell for exmple was able to make Gohan SSJ2 bleed and he is not close to his level
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1. We can not assume that Choze could no longer use his energy attacks.
2. Suiryu is an experienced fighter, he knew that after Choze would have other powerful opponents to fight, soon he could not spend his energy quickly. As I said earlier, if they were so similar in power, Suiryuu would be seriously injured after the fight.
3. Do you realize that Suiryuu did more damage to Bakuzan by breaking his finger than Choze did to Suiryuu? And although it's off topic on my part Cell had enough power to hurt Gohan, plus that physical stamina was never DB's strong point.
2. Suiryu is an experienced fighter, he knew that after Choze would have other powerful opponents to fight, soon he could not spend his energy quickly. As I said earlier, if they were so similar in power, Suiryuu would be seriously injured after the fight.
3. Do you realize that Suiryuu did more damage to Bakuzan by breaking his finger than Choze did to Suiryuu? And although it's off topic on my part Cell had enough power to hurt Gohan, plus that physical stamina was never DB's strong point.
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1. I think it's a fair assumption given that the energy ball formed between Choze's horns and he never used it again in the rest of the fight, but it's also true that it can't be completely ruled out.
2. In their opening moves, Suiryu and Choze were matched hit for hit. Then Choze used his energy ball and wounded Suiryu. After that they fought against hit for hit, going all around the stadium arena until Suiryu got in one critical strike to Choze's guts followed up by another.
That's a pretty close match that was decided because Suiryu got off the critical hit. Just because Suiryu didn't recieve an equal amount of damage doesn't mean the fight wasn't close.
3. Suiryu's hands looked a bit wounded after deflecting Choze's energy ball. Whether that it worse than a broken toe is up for debate since Bakuzan doesn't seem all that fazed after his initial yell of pain.
2. In their opening moves, Suiryu and Choze were matched hit for hit. Then Choze used his energy ball and wounded Suiryu. After that they fought against hit for hit, going all around the stadium arena until Suiryu got in one critical strike to Choze's guts followed up by another.
That's a pretty close match that was decided because Suiryu got off the critical hit. Just because Suiryu didn't recieve an equal amount of damage doesn't mean the fight wasn't close.
3. Suiryu's hands looked a bit wounded after deflecting Choze's energy ball. Whether that it worse than a broken toe is up for debate since Bakuzan doesn't seem all that fazed after his initial yell of pain.
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1. It clear that his hores part of this but nevermindMuuuuh said:
2. Bad exuse,go by you logic if Suriyu could one shot Choze why would he hold back and perfer to take damge and waste stamina? that not take "energy" at all to kill him easily if he really was mountion level,look at Bang vs Dragon level fights,and Suriyu cleary has difficulty against Choze he not hold back that much just look at him ,that not how "hold back" look at all he even say himself that Choze was "dangerous". And just becuse there is no broken bones or somthing doesnt mean the fight wasnt diffcult,There are a lot of fights in One Piece\Fairy Tail for exmple that there was very hard fights and yet no broken bones or losing part body,it just plot.
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Bakuzan is above Choze, and it is possible Suiryu may have lost against him. However, the point is not Suiryu being able to beat Bakuzan but instead, would Suiryu damage him with a full powered attack? And with what we've seen in this chapter, it's a reasonable assumption.
With that said, I'm uncertain if placing Suiryu and Bakuzan on the likes of Bang and Gouketsu (7-A) is a wise idea.
With that said, I'm uncertain if placing Suiryu and Bakuzan on the likes of Bang and Gouketsu (7-A) is a wise idea.
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