Sub-Relativistic Fairy Tail

[BlackeJan]

It's not accepted yet since ONLY 1 calc member agreed while the others disagreed. I said the same thing on the blog cause they need to see the new Fiore

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yeah, 1 calc member agreed, 1 who extensively spent time on making and helping out the calculation, he knows about it far more than I do, so I trust him who spent Hours on the calc, his judgement should be correct, there is no need for more discussion really, but I had to make a thread about it

 

[fandom_9TailAcno]

Bump?

 

[RavenSupreme]

Just reading through it, the mid end of the speed calculation was accepted, which was Mach 6.5K if I recall correctly. Mitch was forced to make a separate thread specific for staff members input and after sorting out a bunch of misconceptions the votes have been 4-2 or 3-2 in favour of accepting the mid end.

Just as an input for the currently accepted value.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I believe the best thing to do is have the God Tiers be, At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely Sub-Relativistic, that would be Ok with me

 

[BlackeJan]

Oi what Mach do u need to be that to become Sub-Rel?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Why Sub Rel again? They are like what? Mach 6500+? Sub Rel doesn't start until Mach 8810+, I think being on the edge of MHS+ like literally kissing Sub Rel is the best bet. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody summarise the TLDR conclusions here, and the reasons for them?

 

[BlackeJan]

Since the Mid End was accepted and Erza speed is now 6200+ so now they want the God tiers to be Sub-Rel. Though in all honesty they wouldn't be Sub-Rel, close but not close enough

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Eh, I'm sure the god Tiers are at least 2x faster than Weakened Erza, but if no one agrees with it, then I agree to just forget it, I think it would be good to make them At least Massively Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Relativistic, however if it's rejected, then that's fine

 

[fandom_9TailAcno]

Can somebody summarise the TLDR conclusions here, and the reasons for them?

We all accept erza 6500 mach speed.

Now base natsu scale to him, and he goes dragon force(against zeref) which increases his stats by x3 or x2(depends on what other people accept) give him at least 13000-19000mach speed.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that upgrading Natsu, Zeref, and Acnologia in terms of speed might make sense then, but please check our new Multipliers page first.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Only the God Tiers, Dragon force is consistent with at least a 2x speed increase, as Base natsu was getting Blitzed by Jellal, and then He went Dragon Force, and Blitzed Jellal, Same with Mard Geer, Also a weaker Natsu blitzed a zeref, who is faster than Weakened Erza, so the consistentcy of at least a 2x increase in speed is consistent, So it's not impossible to increase the speed of the God Tiers

 

[BlackeJan]

Eh, I'm sure the god Tiers are at least 2x faster than Weakened Erza, but if no one agrees with it, then I agree to just forget it, I think it would be good to make them At least Massively Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Relativistic, however if it's rejected, then that's fine

I can agree w/ this

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it depends on what Dragonmasterxyz thinks.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I not 100% sold here. Where does this multiplier come from again. Anyone got a scan for when it's stated?

 

[TriforcePower1]

Eh, I'm sure the god Tiers are at least 2x faster than Weakened Erza, but if no one agrees with it, then I agree to just forget it, I think it would be good to make them At least Massively Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Relativistic, however if it's rejected, then that's fine

This seems fine, especially since Erza had all of her bones broken, so her normal speed should be much higher.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I not 100% sold here. Where does this multiplier come from again. Anyone got a scan for when it's stated?

Only the God Tiers, Dragon force is consistent with at least a 2x speed increase, as Base natsu was getting Blitzed by Jellal, and then He went Dragon Force, and Blitzed Jellal, Same with Mard Geer, Also a weaker Natsu blitzed a zeref, who is faster than Weakened Erza, so the consistentcy of at least a 2x increase in speed is consistent, So it's not impossible to increase the speed of the God Tiers

 

[BlackeJan]

Well I think we said before that DF has been inconsistent

EDIT: that's not a scan @Triforce

 

[MachTwo]

There is no statement how much Dragonforce will increase person speed, only power. We know it will increase users speed by feats in manga but for how much is unknown.

But I'm okay with At least 'Massively Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Relativistic' for God tier

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Dragon Force 2x Speed Increase is consistent, Everytime someone has gone Dragon Force, they have outsped, and blitzed their Opponent, Natsu did it with Jellal, Zero, and Mard Geer, Wendy did it with Ezel, Gajeel did it with Bloodman, Sting did it, with Larcade and Natsu, Rogue did it with Gajeel, point is, the 2x Speed Increase is very consistent, the Power Increase Isn't Consistent, however the Speed Increase is, the God Tiers can scale with no problem in my opinion

 

[RavenSupreme]

Blitzing someone however is considered a trope and is not assigned either a certain speed, nor a certain multiplier. I think this was just recently a topic.

Is there an actual confirmed x2 multiplier for DF speed somewhere?

 

[MachTwo]

I don't think you can say for sure it's 2x speed because person A can blitz person B

And im fairy sure the likely and possibly stats is for case like this when we know they are faster but not 100% sure how much faster.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Dragon Force is a 2 to 3x Multiplier for all stats, the strength part is inconsistent, but the speed part is not

 

[MachTwo]

Is there an actual confirmed x2 multiplier for DF speed somewhere?

By statement and/or scan? afaik there is none.

 

[MachTwo]

Dragon Force is a 2 to 3x Multiplier for all stats, the strength part is inconsistent, but the speed part is not

Power is not automatically mean speed, and dragonforce strength part is inconsistent? how? We know by statement and feats it will increase person strength.

 

[RavenSupreme]

Well according to our recent approach on how to handle multipliers and statements, not even the power multiplier would be accepted, much less an overall boost, including speed.

See for reference:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Multipliers

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Statements

Not trying to artificially downplay or anything - but this is pretty much our infant new rule we implemented. We cant go around it after just 1 day - figuratively.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Dragon Force Increases Strength, Speed and Magic, the 2 to 3x multipllier applies

 

[Captain_Torch]

@MachTwo

He means that it's inconsistent in the x2/x3 multiplier, since it's a lot more than that via calcs.


On Topic:

I'll be honest, I'm against this. Blitzing was never enough to get a speed upgrade, and the dragon force multiplier isn't legitimate(or even speed related)

The best bet you've got is to try to prove that Erza gets SubRel reactions via reacting to the meteor, since she did start moving her attack close range.

As it currently stands, I'm against SubRel speed or "possibly SubRel".

 

[RavenSupreme]

Dragon Force being an overall x2-x3 Stat boost would fall under the same quality as the Bankai boost - which would make it being rejected according to our rules.

The claim of Dragon Force being a x2-x3 boost comes from an unreliable source, according to our statement rules in the first place.

There is virtually no way this would be possibly applied, going by how our current rule system works when it handles statements and multipliers. It fails in both systems.

 

[MachTwo]

We don't use Bankai 5-10 times multiplier, not even for person whos bankai ability only focus in certain area like speed or power let alone use Dragon Forces speed multiplier when it never stated to Increases person speed 3 times.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if our regulations prohibit accepting this, we should probably close this thread.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Simply put, this grants a "likely higher" at most.

 

[BlackeJan]

So basically everything stays the same

 

[MachTwo]

Hmm if we don't allowed person to jump in tier via being stronger/faster than before then I guess "likely '''higher'''"is the best option. :/

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with "likely higher".

 

[Kaltias]

Hmm if we don't allowed person to jump in tier via being stronger/faster than before

We do only in cases where they are very close to the upper border of the tier (for example, someone who one shot a 98 megatons character can be 7-A even if 7-A is 100 megatons)

 

[RavenSupreme]

I agree with "likely higher" as well.

 

[Antvasima]

So should I unlock the Zeref, Natsu, and Acnologia pages, so "likely higher" can be added?