STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

[Alexander]

In the perception of your average OPM fan who thinks he soloes fiction and that ONE intended him to be an undefeatable gag character then yeah it's a nerf, since it proves his power isn't beyond infinity+++.

But now he actually has a chance to win battles in his tier and not be called an unskilled haxless brick.

unless it is literally a logic as justanormalperson said, that it is literally for alephs, or as I can think of it.
that it is like the distance between one number and another(1 and 2 for example)that in reality,between 1 and 2 there is an infinite amount of space or hierarchy,because no matter how many numbers you put to 1 it will still be 1 and it will be less than 2.
So even if the enemy makes the distance between him and saitama's power (2 for the enemy and 1 for saitama) saitama will cover that distance and make the distance double (4).

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

4-A is a huge tier, I wonder what matches Saitama can even have without them being a stomp for either side.

maybe one character from Kirby

 

[Tago238]

*end of the arc

Oof.

 

[Dienomite22]

that ONE intended him to be an undefeatable gag character then yeah it's a nerf

This was kinda true. ONE had gone on record stating multiple times how he wrote Saitama to be pretty much capped at max level and the strongest in OPM.

 

[Alexander]

maybe one character from Kirby

i will say that,the fights will be:
saitama:evolves
enemie:hax
saitama:copy hax
enemie:death
or the enemie power is beyond saitama scope(unless my explanation was right)

 

[Epiccheev]

Enemy: if u copy me u double bald
Saitama: darn, i lose

 

[Cryo123]

There is literally no units on the graph at all. You can’t say it’s in joules because that’s not that the manga says. You can’t say it’s in megatons because that’s not what the manga says. You’re trying to add something that literally isn’t there.

The graph is unquantifiable. The increases are unquantifiable. We aren’t giving Saitama an over 9x increase based on that.

I'll try to refute this point using mathematical proofs. Let's say Saitama's power is graphed as being 1 unknown unit on the Y axis, and then he's shown on the next plotted point, he's 2 units up the Y axis. That means from point 1 to point 2, he has grown 2 times in power, regardless of the units.

Let's use a very simple mathematical proof to show this. Say 1 point on the graph is R in value. That means each point is R times how many units up from the origin they are. We'll start small and work our way up to prove this equation is true.

Starting simple, R = 2. No units. Well if we're 1 unit up on the Y axis, the equation is Y1 = R x 1. 2 x 1 = 2, duh, so that means we have a value of 2.

Moving on if R = 2, and we're 2 units up on the Y axis, that would mean our equation is Y1 = 2 x 2 = 4. Seems internally consistent

Now if we want to find the multiplier required to get from our 1st Y value to our 2nd Y value, we just divde the larger number by the smaller one, getting a x2 multiplier.

Now for a larger scale example:

Let's say R = 76954768457654876 we're 2 units up. Well let's just plug it in to our equation, Y1 = R x 2, which equals 1.5390954e+17.

Then, on the next point, we're 4 units up. So Y2 = R x 4, which gets us 3.0781907e+17.

Now how many times more powerful did the person get between Y1 and Y2? They grew twice as powerful. Why does this matter? In the OPM graph we never get how much 1 equals, so why does this long response even exist?

Because mathematical reasoning exists. Let me phrase this like a math question. Person X one starts 5 units up on the Y axis. He then climbs another five units. Without knowing R, how many times more powerful is Person X at Y2 when compared to Y1?

Well even without knowing R, making our equation Y1 = R x 5 and Y2 = R x 10, we still know that the value of R is a constant on a graph. So we just divide the two numbers we have by each other to learn that they grew twice as powerful. The units are abritrary, it doesn't even matter if they use their own made up system called Terragiggachadchucknorris Scooby Doos, it is still showing his power doubled.

 

[Alexander]

I'll try to refute this point using mathematical proofs. Let's say Saitama's power is graphed as being 1 unknown unit on the Y axis, and then he's shown on the next plotted point, he's 2 units up the Y axis. That means from point 1 to point 2, he has grown 2 times in power, regardless of the units.

Let's use a very simple mathematical proof to show this. Say 1 point on the graph is R in value. That means each point is R times how many units up from the origin they are. We'll start small and work our way up to prove this equation is true.

Starting simple, R = 2. No units. Well if we're 1 unit up on the Y axis, the equation is Y1 = R x 1. 2 x 1 = 2, duh, so that means we have a value of 2.

Moving on if R = 2, and we're 2 units up on the Y axis, that would mean our equation is Y1 = 2 x 2 = 4. Seems internally consistent

Now if we want to find the multiplier required to get from our 1st Y value to our 2nd Y value, we just divde the larger number by the smaller one, getting a x2 multiplier.

Now for a larger scale example:

Let's say R = 76954768457654876 we're 2 units up. Well let's just plug it in to our equation, Y1 = R x 2, which equals 1.5390954e+17.

Then, on the next point, we're 4 units up. So Y2 = R x 4, which gets us 3.0781907e+17.

Now how many times more powerful did the person get between Y1 and Y2? They grew twice as powerful. Why does this matter? In the OPM graph we never get how much 1 equals, so why does this long response even exist?

Because mathematical reasoning exists. Let me phrase this like a math question. Person X one starts 5 units up on the Y axis. He then climbs another five units. Without knowing R, how many times more powerful is Person X at Y2 when compared to Y1?

Well even without knowing R, making our equation Y1 = R x 5 and Y2 = R x 10, we still know that the value of R is a constant on a graph. So we just divide the two numbers we have by each other to learn that they grew twice as powerful. The units are abritrary, it doesn't even matter if they use their own made up system called Terragiggachadchucknorris Scooby Doos, it is still showing his power doubled.

the only think i understand his:
the number is unkown

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I'll try to refute this point using mathematical proofs. Let's say Saitama's power is graphed as being 1 unknown unit on the Y axis, and then he's shown on the next plotted point, he's 2 units up the Y axis. That means from point 1 to point 2, he has grown 2 times in power, regardless of the units.

Let's use a very simple mathematical proof to show this. Say 1 point on the graph is R in value. That means each point is R times how many units up from the origin they are. We'll start small and work our way up to prove this equation is true.

Starting simple, R = 2. No units. Well if we're 1 unit up on the Y axis, the equation is Y1 = R x 1. 2 x 1 = 2, duh, so that means we have a value of 2.

Moving on if R = 2, and we're 2 units up on the Y axis, that would mean our equation is Y1 = 2 x 2 = 4. Seems internally consistent

Now if we want to find the multiplier required to get from our 1st Y value to our 2nd Y value, we just divde the larger number by the smaller one, getting a x2 multiplier.

Now for a larger scale example:

Let's say R = 76954768457654876 we're 2 units up. Well let's just plug it in to our equation, Y1 = R x 2, which equals 1.5390954e+17.

Then, on the next point, we're 4 units up. So Y2 = R x 4, which gets us 3.0781907e+17.

Now how many times more powerful did the person get between Y1 and Y2? They grew twice as powerful. Why does this matter? In the OPM graph we never get how much 1 equals, so why does this long response even exist?

Because mathematical reasoning exists. Let me phrase this like a math question. Person X one starts 5 units up on the Y axis. He then climbs another five units. Without knowing R, how many times more powerful is Person X at Y2 when compared to Y1?

Well even without knowing R, making our equation Y1 = R x 5 and Y2 = R x 10, we still know that the value of R is a constant on a graph. So we just divide the two numbers we have by each other to learn that they grew twice as powerful. The units are abritrary, it doesn't even matter if they use their own made up system called Terragiggachadchucknorris Scooby Doos, it is still showing his power doubled.

Aren't there also graphs that make use of logarithmic scales?

 

[Intruvious]

The graph no longer exist, Saitama was just holding back and continuously using more and more power during his fight.

This. I didn't want to say it, but this is what I want. For the graph to be removed. It would change pretty much everything.

 

[Alexander]

This. I didn't want to say it, but this is what I want. For the graph to be removed. It would change pretty much everything.

the reason why the graph is bad,is because,don't say anything about saitama power growing(we see,but not multiply or something)

 

[ZillertheBucko]

There is literally no units on the graph at all. You can’t say it’s in joules because that’s not that the manga says. You can’t say it’s in megatons because that’s not what the manga says. You’re trying to add something that literally isn’t there.

The graph is unquantifiable. The increases are unquantifiable. We aren’t giving Saitama an over 9x increase based on that.

adding onto what's already been said
we could technically deduce the units, given that the first attack on the graph would be the serious punch^2 which has been calced to death already.

 

[LordTracer]

In the OPM graph we never get how much 1 equals, so why does this long response even exist?

Full stop, right here. This is why Saitama’s not getting the multiplier, because nothing on the graph indicates what each point equals. And your logic of “oh he moved two points up so he’s two times stronger” doesn’t work when there’s graphs that count up each decimal point.

Let’s take your example but say the graph counts decimals. If Saitama starts at 1.1 and moves up two points, he’s only at 1.3 now. It’s not a 2x difference anymore, is it?

Also you seem to confuse me saying units with me wanting it to say joules or something. That’s not the point I was making. The point is that there is not a single number given on the graph, any multiplier you come up with will be headcanon, whether that’s 2x, 9x or 80x like that other guy suggested.

 

[Intruvious]

Too much importance is being given to the graph. What I, and a few others, are saying is that it's not that far of a reach for at least Saitama to possibly have reached the realm of 3-C, given how he had completely and utterly exceeded Garou's level by the end of the fight and had potentially reached the same power gap as it was between him and normal Garou in the past, if not higher.

 

[LordTracer]

Too much importance is being given to the graph. What I, and a few others, are saying is that it's not that far of a reach for at least Saitama to possibly have reached the realm of 3-C, given how he had completely and utterly exceeded Garou's level by the end of the fight and had potentially reached the same power gap as it was between him and normal Garou in the past, if not higher.

It’s not a far reach at all, but without an explicit multiplier, we cannot say Saitama made the over 9x gap to 3-C just because he became far stronger than Garou.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Full stop, right here. This is why Saitama’s not getting the multiplier, because nothing on the graph indicates what each point equals. And your logic of “oh he moved two points up so he’s two times stronger” doesn’t work when there’s graphs that count up each decimal point.

Let’s take your example but say the graph counts decimals. If Saitama starts at 1.1 and moves up two points, he’s only at 1.3 now. It’s not a 2x difference anymore, is it?

Also you seem to confuse me saying units with me wanting it to say joules or something. That’s not the point I was making. The point is that there is not a single number given on the graph, any multiplier you come up with will be headcanon, whether that’s 2x, 9x or 80x like that other guy suggested.

where I'm from we would call that a bad argument
we know that saitama's AD made him one shots on top of one shots on top of one shots stronger than Garou, so it would be EXTREMELY unreasonable to say that he only got 2.6 times stronger, and the burden of proof would be on you to say that the graph has abnormal units like that
by the way, this argument isn't even possible given that saitama starts at around 1/5 of a unit, and then the distance between that and zero gets multiplied
this is actual baby shit, it doesn't take a genius to know that one point on the graph is twice as high as the last. The units DO NOT MATTER, because whatever happened he still got around 64 times stronger.

but yes, for the sake of accuracy and being an absolutely reasonable and making profiles that have absolutely the best facts, let's say that saitama>>>>Garou>>>Garou>>Garou>Garou>Garou scaling chain of one shots isn't even him getting three times stronger, because clearly that is the more reasonable assumption to make.

 

[Intruvious]

Full stop, right here. This is why Saitama’s not getting the multiplier, because nothing on the graph indicates what each point equals. And your logic of “oh he moved two points up so he’s two times stronger” doesn’t work when there’s graphs that count up each decimal point.

Let’s take your example but say the graph counts decimals. If Saitama starts at 1.1 and moves up two points, he’s only at 1.3 now. It’s not a 2x difference anymore, is it?

Also you seem to confuse me saying units with me wanting it to say joules or something. That’s not the point I was making. The point is that there is not a single number given on the graph, any multiplier you come up with will be headcanon, whether that’s 2x, 9x or 80x like that other guy suggested.

Also, logical deduction would disprove it being in decimal scaling since there would practically be no difference in power, unless those decimals represented something else, in which case we are back to square one with regards to that whole argument. But, tbh, this whole graph thing is just a headache.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Words are more difficult when debating issues like these, so instead of me losing my shit, here is a (rough) visual representation of how the logic behind this works
it's a self-explanatory image.

1 represents the serious punch squared which is the start of the fight, and then eventually it'd go up to the end of the fight which I think is roughly around 64 times higher than the initial

 

[LordTracer]

saitama>>>>Garou>>>Garou>>Garou>Garou>Garou scaling chain of one shots isn't even him getting three times stronger, because clearly that is the more reasonable assumption to make.

I hate to break it to you, but that’s how the site works. If you don’t have a statement of a multiplier, you’re not getting a multiplier.

 

[Dust_Collector]

but yes, for the sake of accuracy and being an absolutely reasonable and making profiles that have absolutely the best facts, let's say that saitama>>>>Garou>>>Garou>>Garou>Garou>Garou scaling chain of one shots isn't even him getting three times stronger, because clearly that is the more reasonable assumption to make.

I dunno about the graph or whatever but I just wanna explain why this scaling chain won't be accepted.

This guy has a scaling chain that looks like this, Hades (Amped Up) >> Hades (Base) >>>>>> 3 Sacred Treasures >>> Pit (Base) = 317.9 Teratons. To put into perspective how big the gaps here are, base form Hades can casually one shot the 3 sacred treasures just by burping. Yet we only put his amped form as "likely Large Country level+" despite the fact the 317.9 teratons feat he scales massively above is only 35% below the baseline for a + rating.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I hate to break it to you, but that’s how the site works. If you don’t have a statement of a multiplier, you’re not getting a multiplier.

I would advise that you have a response to literally anything else I said

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I dunno about the graph or whatever but I just wanna explain why this scaling chain won't be accepted.

This guy has a scaling chain that looks like this, Hades (Amped Up) >> Hades (Base) >>>>>> 3 Sacred Treasures >>> Pit (Base) = 317.9 Teratons. To put into perspective how big the gaps here are, base form Hades can casually one shot the 3 sacred treasures just by burping. Yet we only put his amped form a "likely Large Country level+" despite the 317.9 teratons feat he scales massively above is only 35% below the baseline for a + rating.

ok actually, both of you are ignoring that the scaling chain was never my main argument, I only brought it up because it would be much more compelling to disagree with something like a 2.6 times multiplier
I'm very aware of how messed up scaling chains are here already, I mean I've seen what they did to Jotaro being like a few decimals below the upscale value to 8-B

 

[AnAverageUsername]

ok actually, both of you are ignoring that the scaling chain was never my main argument, I only brought it up because it would be much more compelling to disagree with something like a 2.6 times multiplier
I'm very aware of how messed up scaling chains are here already, I mean I've seen what they did to Jotaro being like a few decimals below the upscale value to 8-B

Funny how you're saying they're ignoring you when you're ignoring them, while you're trying to place headcanon on a graph.

 

[LordTracer]

I would advise that you have a response to literally anything else I said

The rest of your argument is adding numbers to the graph that aren’t there, like many other people have already done, and trying to argue an unreasonably high multiplier based on it. It’s nothing new.

And really, I just find the scaling chain funny. Back when Orochi was 5-C+, he was only 1.3x away from baseline Low 5-B, and we couldn’t even give Boros and Tatsumaki a full upscale from that.

If a 1.3x difference didn’t get fully accepted, then a 2x ain’t getting accepted, 9x ain’t getting accepted, and certainly not 64x or 80x.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Funny how you're saying they're ignoring you when you're ignoring them, while you're trying to place headcanon on a graph.

The rest of your argument is adding numbers to the graph that aren’t there, like many other people have already done, and trying to argue an unreasonably high multiplier based on it. It’s nothing new.

And really, I just find the scaling chain funny. Back when Orochi was 5-C+, he was only 1.3x away from baseline Low 5-B, and we couldn’t even give Boros and Tatsumaki a full upscale from that.

If a 1.3x difference didn’t get fully accepted, then a 2x ain’t getting accepted, 9x ain’t getting accepted, and certainly not 64x or 80x.

which all makes it extremely evident that you haven't been reading my replies
I would argue that the units absolutely do not matter at all here, since it's just a multiplier, it's not an addition-based amp at all
two times the amount of meters in length is going to be two times, two times the feet in length is going to be two times
it doesn't matter what the units are on either axis, we know that it is at least from the start to the end of the fight, and the y axis is irrelevant for reasons above
the image I gave is a more easy to comprehend visual explanation, but conveniently you completely failed to even acknowledge it, and are continuing to completely strawman me by saying "I am trying to add numbers". No, what I am doing is the inverse, by saying I'm not adding numbers, the numbers don't actually matter.
Like, I'm fully aware that you are choosing to ignore details for the sake of downplaying, or perhaps you are just dedicated to making it look like you won an argument on the internet, but you choose to cherry pick a non vital piece of an argument and then use an all encompassing straw man phrase of "adding numbers where they don't exist" when that doesn't apply at all to, and frankly contradicts the rest of what I am arguing.

 

[StekFence]

I hate to break it to you, but that’s how the site works. If you don’t have a statement of a multiplier, you’re not getting a multiplier.

And sometimes you still don’t get the multiplier after having statements

 

[ZillertheBucko]

And sometimes you still don’t get the multiplier after having statements

in this case a 64 times multiplier would be incredibly consistent with the fight itself so a scenario like that wouldn't be comparable to this one

 

[LordTracer]

I would argue that the units absolutely do not matter at all here, since it's just a multiplier, it's not an addition-based amp at all
two times the amount of meters in length is going to be two times, two times the feet in length is going to be two times

If this is still what you think I was arguing then you didn’t read when I explained this.

And as I’ve said before, it’s not a multiplier because there’s nowhere in the chapter that shows a multiplier. Your explanation of the graph is entirely your headcanon, and doesn’t even make sense (i.e. you have it going from a 1 to 2 even though it doesn’t even reach the next line of the graph), and your claim of it being a 64x multiplier is just completely unsupported.

Like, I'm fully aware that you are choosing to ignore details for the sake of downplaying, or perhaps you are just dedicated to making it look like you won an argument on the internet

If you’re so confident in your argument, why do you feel the need to resort to crying downplay?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

And sometimes you still don’t get the multiplier after having statements

Well, that presumably was due to contradictions, lack of evidence or not fulfilling certain standards though I can only guess without concrete examples.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

And as I’ve said before, it’s not a multiplier because there’s nowhere in the chapter that shows a multiplier. Your explanation of the graph is entirely your headcanon, and doesn’t even make sense (i.e. you have it going from a 1 to 2 even though it doesn’t even reach the next line of the graph), and your claim of it being a 64x multiplier is just completely unsupported.

and this is just you having difficulty reading the visual so I'd be happy to explain
due to the fact that the serious punch squared starts at around 1/4 of a single square, it going up to 2/4 of a square would mean it doubled due to .25 * 2 = 2/4 or .5, which is why it doesn't reach the next line up, as going from 1/4 to 1 would be a 4 times increase
which is why he got around 64 times stronger from start to finish, because assuming that he starts at 1/4 of a square, knowing that the final shiny bald saitama head ends at around 16 squares, it would end up being around 64 times
it's essentially just a math problem, in which the units remain unknown but we still know how many times higher they got. if the first point is X, then the last point is 64x regardless of what X is

(image again for convenience since we made a new page)
after about 10.5 units on the X axis is the length of the entire fight up to that point, and about 16 units on the Y is the power saitama grew to at that point in the fight

If you’re so confident in your argument, why do you feel the need to resort to crying downplay?

"If you're so confident that I'm wrong, why do you resort to disagreeing with me saying he's weaker"

 

[ZillertheBucko]

but uh, I'm gonna postpone the rest of this argument
it could be potentially catastrophic for both of our arguments depending on how the redraw goes

 

[AnAverageUsername]

or it isnt a redraw and Murata was just talking about the next chapter

 

[LordTracer]

due to the fact that the serious punch squared starts at around 1/4 of a single square

Oh, so you’re just eyeballing the graph to get these values.

which is why he got around 64 times stronger from start to finish, because assuming that he starts at 1/4 of a square, knowing that the final shiny bald saitama head ends at around 16 squares, it would end up being around 64 times

And here you acknowledge that you’re just assuming he starts at 1/4, and you have to make that assumption to get the 64x multiplier.

An assumption + no directly stated multiplier + no consensus on what the multiplier is, if there even is one (cause so far, I’ve seen 64x, 80x and a bunch of people that just want the 9x upscale) = multiplier not getting accepted

"If you're so confident that I'm wrong, why do you resort to disagreeing with me saying he's weaker"

I’m not arguing he’s weaker, I’m arguing that he’s unquantifiably stronger than the value he’s calced it. You’re the one arguing he got 64x stronger.

but uh, I'm gonna postpone the rest of this argument
it could be potentially catastrophic for both of our arguments depending on how the redraw goes

Aye, I suppose we can wait until next week to see what happens.

 

[RethPo]

Idk what you guys are going on about but the only way it can be used for a multiplier is if you say that the bottom line would equate to zero strength. We dont know what the baseline on that graph is supposed to be sadly.

Given the feat they performed isnt far off 3-C though and how rapidly saitama adapted along with every other factor, it isnt unsafe to assume he can adapt to anybody within 4-A.

 

[LordTracer]

Oh, I definitely think one could argue Saitama’s adaptation goes that far in a versus match not sure why you would tbh, just argue he gets far stronger than his opponent, but it’s not something that’d get listed on his profile.

 

[SuperStar]

maybe one character from Kirby

Kirby throws him into the sun

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Idk what you guys are going on about but the only way it can be used for a multiplier is if you say that the bottom line would equate to zero strength. We dont know what the baseline on that graph is supposed to be sadly.

Given the feat they performed isnt far off 3-C though and how rapidly saitama adapted along with every other factor, it isnt unsafe to assume he can adapt to anybody within 4-A.

well we actually do know, since their lines never actually hit zero, and never will due to it being exponential

 

[RethPo]

Oh, I definitely think one could argue Saitama’s adaptation goes that far in a versus match not sure why you would tbh, just argue he gets far stronger than his opponent, but it’s not something that’d get listed on his profile.

Tbh that saitama vs hulk animation makes a lot more sense under the new ratings now

minus the fact they didn’t accidentally wreck the whole solar system

 

[UltimateDarkGod666]

Saitama, Fubuki and Garou are Murata's top favorite right?

 

[Ryukama]

I love how we still got Saitama at Moon Level lmfao