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With the current ratings, they stalemate Gouketsu at best. Ninjas also have notoriously bad DC against larger opponents so they would probably lose against Elder Centipede in the long run as well.
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STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
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psykos was the one who gave them the cells and she pretty much analyze everyone in the association, she would definetely sent them to fight tatsumaki if they were really strong.
you are literally missing the compatibility system and going against the wiki because we literally accepted her as one of the main sources of the verse
you are literally missing the compatibility system and going against the wiki because we literally accepted her as one of the main sources of the verse
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Fodders for "TATSUMAKI" and literally other ninjas
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Do you both realize that if Psykos knows about Hellfire and Galewind's full power the whole scaling falls apart?
Pre-Molt EC < Tatsumaki (perceived by Psykos) < base Gyoro Gyoro = Garou (GG said if she fought Garou she would need to expend strength and she wanted to be at full power. You can also argue the power GG was using on Garou was the one that could defeat Tats, as she stated) < Orochi Garou < Spiral Garou < Post Darkshine Garou = weakened Bomb < Bomb= Bang < AB Bang = FF= Ninjas (there are slight differences, but they are all comparable in terms of raw physical stats).
Ninjas are just that high, they are way higher than what Psykos thought Tatsuamki could do. She just didn't know about their powers, because if she did, that would mean Tatsumaki the version of Garou who fought Gyoro Gyoro could stomp the ninjas, and that's blatantly false. The fact they weren't considered even cadres despite scaling above almost every cadre means she didn't know shit.
Also, Phoenix Man, who is one of the most knowledgeable members in the MA, said (pre-redraw) the ninjas should be pretty strong. He doesn't even know their levels accurately. They are ninjas and are on a mission for a reason. Their plans are beyond MA's, their main goal is to defeat Flashy Flash, they don't need to reveal more things than Psykos needs to know.
Pre-Molt EC < Tatsumaki (perceived by Psykos) < base Gyoro Gyoro = Garou (GG said if she fought Garou she would need to expend strength and she wanted to be at full power. You can also argue the power GG was using on Garou was the one that could defeat Tats, as she stated) < Orochi Garou < Spiral Garou < Post Darkshine Garou = weakened Bomb < Bomb= Bang < AB Bang = FF= Ninjas (there are slight differences, but they are all comparable in terms of raw physical stats).
Ninjas are just that high, they are way higher than what Psykos thought Tatsuamki could do. She just didn't know about their powers, because if she did, that would mean Tatsumaki the version of Garou who fought Gyoro Gyoro could stomp the ninjas, and that's blatantly false. The fact they weren't considered even cadres despite scaling above almost every cadre means she didn't know shit.
Also, Phoenix Man, who is one of the most knowledgeable members in the MA, said (pre-redraw) the ninjas should be pretty strong. He doesn't even know their levels accurately. They are ninjas and are on a mission for a reason. Their plans are beyond MA's, their main goal is to defeat Flashy Flash, they don't need to reveal more things than Psykos needs to know.
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The current ninja duo would likely force plat to mid-high diff them as well
The heavenly ninja party together rather simplistically beats plat as well
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Individually, they could pose a threat to PS for all we know.
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Actually I think the heavenly ninja part could take out all the cadre at once
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I'm honestly expecting them to get 0 feats. We haven't gotten any surprisingly powerful feats since Apollo caused his 7-A earthquakes back in the psychic sisters arc, I'm worried the ninjas won't manage anything more impressive than small building level feats.
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Expect more speed feats
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I agree with you, but I don't care, they already scale to PS level individually.
Recon1511
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Forgot about Gouketsu and fair enough about EC I guess
Recon1511
He/Him- 7,310
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Very likely yeah but I hope we get a new constellation feat with all the ninjas involved, that'd be neat even if the result is lower than current speed ratings
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Yeah we'll definitely get some of those
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"the databook" Lol.
How does the databook calling it a test punch somehow suggest that he always uses the same level of power to start a fight even later in the manga? Do you realize how little sense that even makes my guy. If Saitama's no-effort attacks can one-shot his opponents, what's the point in testing their strength anyways. He's looking for a good fight, not to analyze how strong people specifically are lmao. If he uses the same level of punch even currently in the manga, that would mean he's testing if his opponent is at least, like, practically a million times weaker than himself. There is no sense or logic behind that argument and also very little evidence to support it. And furthermore, that still doesn't suggest his punches against Orochi were of the same level at all.
"Saitama hasn't grown any stronger" etc.
Have you been reading the same manga as us? It is literally, objectively confirmed in the Garou fight that Saitama has limited power but limitless potential, and is ALWAYS growing, now just when he is excited and you...god I can't believe I'm seeing that argument here. Saitama WAS NOT growing because he got "excited", Saitama was growing because Garou killed Genos. Saitama literally says that even though he's found a good fight, he doesn't care and doesn't feel excited, and just wants to beat the shit out of Garou, furthermore, the narrator, literally, refers to it as an emotional upsurge, and I quote, "like none he had ever felt before". Which automatically destroys that argument, and I can not understand how so many people misinterpret that. Also, in this same explanation from the narrator, he explains says that the emotional upsurge caused Saitama's growth to exponentially increase, while also saying that Saitama had always continued to grow, which means that yes, Saitama is always growing, just not nearly on the same level as against Garou, you can't exponentially increase from 0, so that means he has to have been growing for his growth rate to undergo an exponential boost, that much is very obvious and just basic common sense. People put this TOGETHER with the audiobook where Saitama one-shots himself from the previous day as well because it's very logical to combine the two points, few people ever considered the audiobook scene to be confirmed or even extremely likely until now where we have confirmation that Saitama has accelerated development. Genus explains that the Limiter is the restriction to growth, and removing it removes said limitation. We also see that Saitama when he was still during the middle of his training but after breaking his Limiter struggled to perform a sub-light speed feat whereas bald Saitama considers attacks of that level to be a bad joke. Saitama outright says in the audiobook that, of course, he would beat himself from the previous day...
Saitama has never actually said that he literally can't get stronger and you are completely taking his words out of context. What Saitama has said is that he metaphorically cannot make any more growth or reach any new heights, because he's already at the top. If a mountain climber reaches the top of Mount Everest, that's it, there's no more goals to strive for that would be on a higher level, there's no more growth, thus, stagnation. That doesn't mean they can't get better at mountain climbing, but what's even the point then, if they could conquer the biggest challenge of all, there aren't any more feats above that to accomplish. Saitama feels as though he's already the pinnacle of power in his world, which is what ONE had in mind when writing the character as he explained in a Q/A, so yes, he's already at the top and there's no more room for growth, but that doesn't mean he can't still get stronger in a literal sense which he objectively can. The entire point of his power is that he has removed the limitations to his physical growth.
The databook doesn't hold any relevance, you're taking a random vague phrase used probably one time I'm guessing from a databook filled with statements so laughably, horrendously off the mark, that it completely ruins most credibility the databook has. Unless you think that Marugori is city block level and Atomic Samurai can cut atoms.
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I'll read and respond to all of that whenever I can, too busy with school work right now.
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excuses
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You wish. I always reply, unlike someone I know of
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i’mma man of few wordsYou wish. I always reply, unlike someone I know of
only expend my time at my crts
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alright time for me to step in
read section 2, it's the easiest way for me to convey everything to you without removing information. You ought to look at everything there, but in a nutshell
there's numerous pieces of evidence that Saitama uses the same normal punch/one-punch, and even an explicit statement that he couldn't tell if Gouketsu was different because of the fact that he was one shot. Saitama took attacks from Gouketsu and was unable to tell if he was any stronger than the likes of Bakuzan.
This Bakuzan.
1. The vgs is blatantly unreliable, and has even specifically shown unreliability with another character who utilizes AD when metal bat is unable to use his fighting spirit
2. The vgs worked by storing a copy of the opponent's data and then having people fight that copy. It is clearly shown that Genos is incapable of measuring Saitama's strength, so Saitama just ends up stomping whatever virtual clone of him there is.
oh yeah, and if this seems baseless
"Genos: Sensei is far more powerful today than he was yesterday… is that even possible?
Saitama: It’s just unreliable simulated data right?"
we've been through this so many times, stop using the god damn simulator as evidence.
Now to address other things. That passive growth that was talked about? We know 2 things about it
1st, we know that it's linear growth, which is pointless for someone who has reached that level of strength. It's like being a trillionaire and then having some good samaritan donate 10 dollars to you every day. Not impactful
but if that seems like headcanon, then consider this
2. We literally already know where the passive growth comes from
don't forget that Saitama still does his training routine. The problem is that it's been made explicit that Saitama has reached a point where doing 100 pushups a day doesn't mean jack. The only reason he even does that tiny tiny little beyond insignificant growth at all is because he has no limiter, so there's at least no technical biological limitation like when someone reached a plateau in real life, but the growth is still shit.
Like unless he has some spare black holes to bench like in the non canon cover, it's safe to say that the 2 months of training Saitama's done since BoS....have not made him anywhere NEAR a relevant amount stronger. it's so small thatt even Saitama can't notice his own growth, hence the statment that he can't get any stronger.
Saitama's accelerated development pre limiter breaking was purely through intense training and zenkai boosts (which is something everyone in the verse has)
Saitama's training is no longer even a fraction of a fraction of intense, and even against Cosmic Garou's peak he was never in any real danger or actually injured beyond maybe having blood drawn a couple times. So there's absolutely no way for him to grow any amount that matters.
anyways overall, 8/10 response from you
your logical overall is sound but the only reason it's wrong is due to quite a few overlooked factors and scans and whatnot is all.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/consi...n-armored-boros-durability-suggestion.153245/ I'll just drop this here
read section 2, it's the easiest way for me to convey everything to you without removing information. You ought to look at everything there, but in a nutshell
there's numerous pieces of evidence that Saitama uses the same normal punch/one-punch, and even an explicit statement that he couldn't tell if Gouketsu was different because of the fact that he was one shot. Saitama took attacks from Gouketsu and was unable to tell if he was any stronger than the likes of Bakuzan.
This Bakuzan.
This is all very cool, but
1. The vgs is blatantly unreliable, and has even specifically shown unreliability with another character who utilizes AD when metal bat is unable to use his fighting spirit
2. The vgs worked by storing a copy of the opponent's data and then having people fight that copy. It is clearly shown that Genos is incapable of measuring Saitama's strength, so Saitama just ends up stomping whatever virtual clone of him there is.
oh yeah, and if this seems baseless
"Genos: Sensei is far more powerful today than he was yesterday… is that even possible?
Saitama: It’s just unreliable simulated data right?"
we've been through this so many times, stop using the god damn simulator as evidence.
Now to address other things. That passive growth that was talked about? We know 2 things about it
1st, we know that it's linear growth, which is pointless for someone who has reached that level of strength. It's like being a trillionaire and then having some good samaritan donate 10 dollars to you every day. Not impactful
but if that seems like headcanon, then consider this
2. We literally already know where the passive growth comes from
don't forget that Saitama still does his training routine. The problem is that it's been made explicit that Saitama has reached a point where doing 100 pushups a day doesn't mean jack. The only reason he even does that tiny tiny little beyond insignificant growth at all is because he has no limiter, so there's at least no technical biological limitation like when someone reached a plateau in real life, but the growth is still shit.
Like unless he has some spare black holes to bench like in the non canon cover, it's safe to say that the 2 months of training Saitama's done since BoS....have not made him anywhere NEAR a relevant amount stronger. it's so small thatt even Saitama can't notice his own growth, hence the statment that he can't get any stronger.
Saitama's accelerated development pre limiter breaking was purely through intense training and zenkai boosts (which is something everyone in the verse has)
Saitama's training is no longer even a fraction of a fraction of intense, and even against Cosmic Garou's peak he was never in any real danger or actually injured beyond maybe having blood drawn a couple times. So there's absolutely no way for him to grow any amount that matters.
He "literally" did tho
to be fair I'm also unsure if such a databook statement about the test punch really exists
anyways overall, 8/10 response from you
your logical overall is sound but the only reason it's wrong is due to quite a few overlooked factors and scans and whatnot is all.
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His "ability" is training every day doing his goofy little sit ups and getting what we call in mathematician terms
"pretty much like 0" growth
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Coom I know what happened man, I read the fight.
Recon1511
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Yo vivo cerca de la frontera y es infumable el calor de mrd
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I feel a strong compulsion to attempt a CRT about "AP equalization within a certain boundary" but I know it'll never go through.
I mean everyone knows how it is when a seemingly good match-up gets made just for someone to come and "explain" why character A one-shots or otherwise stomps character B because some fan calc determined the exact strength of each character. If a match-up is decided between two characters with comparable feats in the same tier just because a fan calc puts one character at some specific mathematically deduced level above another character (like a 7x times difference or whatever just cause "Hm the radius of this explosion is this big and something about kinetic energy or thermodynamics or whatever bs"), it's hyper-cringe and the definition of the
meme.
Not saying every character within the same tier can be equalized because obviously, there is still gonna be a genuine and obvious gap in power from time to time if not most of the time. But if their specifically deduced AP's are not that far apart at all, are clearly of the same general level, and the only reason why we say one is significantly stronger than the other is because someone calculated it, I think that's just an issue and literally takes away any sense of fun. Some people say versus debates/powerscaling is a waste of time, but the only reason why people have these discussions is out of enjoyment, and if someone doesn't enjoy these discussions, that's when it becomes a sincere waste of time.
I mean everyone knows how it is when a seemingly good match-up gets made just for someone to come and "explain" why character A one-shots or otherwise stomps character B because some fan calc determined the exact strength of each character. If a match-up is decided between two characters with comparable feats in the same tier just because a fan calc puts one character at some specific mathematically deduced level above another character (like a 7x times difference or whatever just cause "Hm the radius of this explosion is this big and something about kinetic energy or thermodynamics or whatever bs"), it's hyper-cringe and the definition of the
meme.Not saying every character within the same tier can be equalized because obviously, there is still gonna be a genuine and obvious gap in power from time to time if not most of the time. But if their specifically deduced AP's are not that far apart at all, are clearly of the same general level, and the only reason why we say one is significantly stronger than the other is because someone calculated it, I think that's just an issue and literally takes away any sense of fun. Some people say versus debates/powerscaling is a waste of time, but the only reason why people have these discussions is out of enjoyment, and if someone doesn't enjoy these discussions, that's when it becomes a sincere waste of time.
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equalizing AP within a tier is raw.I feel a strong compulsion to attempt a CRT about "AP equalization within a certain boundary" but I know it'll never go through.
I mean everyone knows how it is when a seemingly good match-up gets made just for someone to come and "explain" why character A one-shots or otherwise stomps character B because some fan calc determined the exact strength of each character. If a match-up is decided between two characters with comparable feats in the same tier just because a fan calc puts one character at some specific mathematically deduced level above another character (like a 7x times difference or whatever just cause "Hm the radius of this explosion is this big!"), it's hyper-cringe and the definition of the
a high 6-A with 200 petatons being able to fight a high 6-A at 3 exatons seems perfectly fine to me
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Nah it depends on specifics, especially when you enter the interstellar tiers. Equalizing two multi-solar system levels just cause "wowzers same tier!" is silly and no one should need to explain why.
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Imo it should be a case-by-case basis instead of a set rule. Let people use their own judgement to determine if equalizing AP's would be fair in any specific circumstance.
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me on my way to equalize Jotaro to 8-B characters
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Yessir.
