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**** youThese ratings are ass
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**** youThese ratings are ass
what?They needed the fruit.
It's not really, who is going to pay attention to what a monster has to say? Most civilians would just be running for their lives and even if people noticed it it would just be a rumour at best, and a very recent one considering that monsters appearances have been skyrocketing just in the last 3 years.what?
I am talking about in general
It pretty common knowledge that anyone can turn into a monster
Hell monsters go around shouting their origins all the time in OPM and no one sees anything entirely weird about it as it's a normal thing
Some examples being guys like Crablante or Vaccine Man
This is just a straight up plot hole
Or a retcon so ONE and Murata can give more GOD lore
How I view it, it was a portion of God, plus a God amped EC to push him that far.I find it very interesting, personally, that the other's gathered didn't necessarily "doubt" Genos. They thought he was probably exaggerating, but all in all they're actually taking his word for it to some extent and acknowledging that, if nothing else, Saitama at least played a major role in that battle.
The EC thing is gonna turn into a big debate, I can feel it. Personally I've always felt like EC has been super downplayed, though I certainly think this is an outlier for sure. Cause it's implied that Blast fought God right THERE, meaning that a Blast who could survive a duel with at least a portion of God struggled beating EC, which I find patently ridiculous for obvious reasons. If only Blast didn't have scuff marks.
I think it's too early to say this makes Blast scale to 4-A. We don't know how strong that apparition of God even was, just that it was indeed some fragment of God. It'd be an assumption to say it scales to CF Garou post-SPS. As much as I wish it were applicable, that isn't reliable enough for Vs. Battles Wiki standards.
Also, great chapter. An example that even dialogue chapters can be great. I'm glad that ONE is progressing the main plot.
Everything's coming up aces.By the way 2 mentions of "infatuation" from Genos for Saitama
saigenos keeps winning
Bruh, threat leveling scaling is not that bad. At worst I would just use "likely" before threat level scaling.there's no common feat reference for it so I don't really know if that's true
the feats he scales to don't even have calcs, and it also has cringe threat level scaling which is going to be tossed in the gutter when I'm finished
an 8-B with hax, speed, or just extreme genius could be threat level dragon+, while a 3-A with 9-C dura and below average human speed that is borderline passive to everything would be threat level wolf or tigerBruh, threat leveling scaling is not that bad. At worst I would just use "likely" before threat level scaling.
Also, MA disaster levels are solely AP based, and yet they still line up well with HA rankings.
The same guns that shattered his entire arm.pureblood getting mauled by zombieman's....handheld guns
Scan?an 8-B with hax, speed, or just extreme genius could be threat level dragon+, while a 3-A with 9-C dura and below average human speed that is borderline passive to everything would be threat level wolf or tiger
One's quote is just wrong. Even the in universe databook says Beefcake is still only demon, even after mentioning his crater feat one page prior.beefcake himself only has "demon level AP" yet without AD he would have been upgraded to dragon simply because of doing damage over time, so there's not really a case for threat level scaling with HA ratings anymore
Yeah, they use the same naming conventions. That doesn't mean their rankings are wrong. If you say a ball weighs 500 grams and are wrong, and I say it's 250 grams, that doesn't mean I'm wrong just because I used the same unit.MA is fishy, they claim it's power based yet they use the same system,
Yes, exactlyThe same guns that shattered his entire arm.
I don’t feel like looking for it, but everybody knows there are more factors than AP, meaning AP cannot be determined from threat level in the hero associationScan?
Yes, and you’re missing the point entirelyOne's quote is just wrong. Even the in universe databook says Beefcake is still only demon, even after mentioning his crater feat one page prior.
Ok but this analogy is completely stupidYeah, they use the same naming conventions. That doesn't mean their rankings are wrong. If you say a ball weighs 500 grams and are wrong, and I say it's 250 grams, that doesn't mean I'm wrong just because I used the same unit.
This is just wrong. Disaster levels aren't remotely based on speed or even durability. The fact that Beefcake's Disaster level was based on the destruction he caused directly contradicts your own point here.an 8-B with hax, speed, or just extreme genius could be threat level dragon+, while a 3-A with 9-C dura and below average human speed that is borderline passive to everything would be threat level wolf or tiger
You do realise that Stinger kills Tiger levels with a Bamboo shoot, right? His weaponry is far stronger than their IRL counterparts, which is evident by the size of the muzzle flash they created and the fact that they pushed back Pureblood a large distance.MA is fishy, they claim it's power based yet they use the same system, and then you still have pureblood getting mauled by zombieman's....handheld guns, and an axe.
And they're utterly useless against anything except Wolf level threats (if even that), go figure.90% of B class and 99% of C class would be completely useless if normal weapons like that are able to destroy your neighborhood
This is just head canon. I don't know what to tell you.even nyan just uses piercing damage and dura neg, and is still dragon level without any 7-B feats
Then what does bringing up Pureblood being damaged actually contribute?Yes, exactly
"Everybody knows that x" is not an argument. Also, in the Bonus Chapter "Disster Level", it implies that there is a strict power relation between monsters. The issue is that the system is so focused on the AP of the monster they ignore other factors.I don’t feel like looking for it, but everybody knows there are more factors than AP, meaning AP cannot be determined from threat level in the hero association
Your argument is built on a bad quote. Beefcake was never, and could ever be dragon level. Even after his all out barrage, the HA still classified him as demon, along with an objective databook that ONE APPROVED OF.Yes, and you’re missing the point entirely
The fact that he could have become dragon level through damage over time completely disproves the idea that it’s AP based, since even if he punched 1000 times and became dragon level, he still would be 13 megatons, meaning a dragon level who has beefcake’s AP could exist, completely obliterating the idea that every dragon level must be stronger than 13 megatons
The analogy isn't wrong. You are saying MA ratings are fishy because they use Wolf, Tiger, Demon, and Dragon ratings.Ok but this analogy is completely stupid
the hero association isn’t wrong, they literally invented threat levels (not AP based) and the monster association copies them.
speed and durability (and intelligence) all fall under difficulty of exterminationThis is just wrong. Disaster levels aren't remotely based on speed or even durability. The fact that Beefcake's Disaster level was based on the destruction he caused directly contradicts your own point here.
You're literally proving my point, a bunch of 10-C mosquitos doing ******* environmental damage does not mean shit for their AP, and crows getting demon level through combined capability, not even through their APHell, even the fact that a swarm of mosquitos with **** all durability or the Three Crows can have a disaster level of Demon based on the combined destruction they're capable of causing shows why your point is wrong.
sureYou do realise that Stinger kills Tiger levels with a Bamboo shoot, right? His weaponry is far stronger than their IRL counterparts, which is evident by the size of the muzzle flash they created and the fact that they pushed back Pureblood a large distance.
sure, 9-C zombieman is realPlus, Zombieman is strong enough to bend metal bars without snapping his arms, and yet these guns shattered them.
ok.And they're utterly useless against anything except Wolf level threats (if even that), go figure.
I'm saying the current reasoning based on nyan being 7-B sucks ass if we're just going by threat level scaling, not that nyan isn't 7-BThis is just head canon. I don't know what to tell you.
scans whenthey ignore other factors.
and you're somehow still missing the pointYour argument is built on a bad quote. Beefcake was never, and could ever be dragon level. Even after his all out barrage, the HA still classified him as demon, along with an objective databook that ONE APPROVED OF.
I'm saying they're fishy because they're very directly based on a system that uses things other than AP, so if it turns out that the system is actually the same, then that would make MA ratings wrongThe analogy isn't wrong. You are saying MA ratings are fishy because they use Wolf, Tiger, Demon, and Dragon ratings.
The MA ranking system focuses on the power level and destructive power of monstersI'm saying they're fishy because they're very directly based on a system that uses things other than AP, so if it turns out that the system is actually the same, then that would make MA ratings wrong
of course it could always just be a different system with the same names, which is why I still said it would be worth a likely rating
B and A Class can deal with Wolf and Tiger levels just fine, mostly...And they're utterly useless against anything except Wolf level threats (if even that), go figure.
"taking into consideration the monster's destructive power, aggression, difficulty of extermination, and so on"
I literally just showed a scan of durability not being a factor. Plus, it says aggression is a factor, not intelligence.speed and durability (and intelligence) all fall under difficulty of extermination
"doing ******* environmental damage" "not AP".You're literally proving my point, a bunch of 10-C mosquitos doing ******* environmental damage does not mean shit for their AP,
Which is my point. The culmination of their threat stacks up.and crows getting demon level through combined capability, not even through their AP
It certainly helps when you remove any and all context from the scan.sorry but this is stupid, twice in a row you're literally helping me make arguments I didn't even know I had on my side
Sure, ignore the point that was made, or the fact that Pureblood can literally rip people in half.sure, 9-C zombieman is real
You're literally not giving anything for that though. You're just saying muh piercing damage and calling it a day.I'm saying the current reasoning based on nyan being 7-B sucks ass if we're just going by threat level scaling, not that nyan isn't 7-B
Ziller said B and C.B and A Class can deal with Wolf and Tiger levels just fine, mostly...
The MA ranking system focuses on the power level and destructive power of monsters
No? Are you sane? Just because durability wasn't that specific monster's strong suit doesn't mean it's not a factor. I shouldn't ******* have to explain this to you when you're literally the one who used the "difficulty of extermination is a factor" scan but here I ******* goI literally just showed a scan of durability not being a factor.
Intelligence STILL falls under difficulty of extermination, cause it can be difficult to exterminate someone who's ten times smarter than you, even if you're ten thousand times stronger. Hence Joseph Joestar's existence.Plus, it says aggression is a factor, not intelligence.
throwing a million mosquitos at a building where each mosquito is tasked with picking some crumbs off its structure would be causing 8-C damage, and yet, throwing a million mosquitos at an 8-C character is going to do nothing at all"doing ******* environmental damage" "not AP".
exactly, which is literally what I am trying to prove??????????? what the hell are you doing?Which is my point. The culmination of their threat stacks up.
coming from the person who tried to cherry pick parts of the threat level scan, while completely ignoring the entire spiel about difficulty of extermination being a factor. Average staff member behaviorIt certainly helps when you remove any and all context from the scan.
I wasn't ignoring you, it's called conceding a point, something I'm open minded enough to do.Sure, ignore the point that was made, or the fact that Pureblood can literally rip people in half.
this isn't worth arguing, and doesn't even affect anything anyways, since I've already admitted that MA ratings are fineYou're literally not giving anything for that though. You're just saying muh piercing damage and calling it a day.
fixedWhy is Pureblood 8-B but Zombieman for some reason is 9-A?
Chapter 80.5. I can't link it because the site is a no no on VSBW and I can't access imigur.scans when
My point is that the quote that implies that destruction over time is a factor in disaster level is in it of itself wrong. Also, chill my guy lol. We've had no beef before this XD.please, shut the hell up about him not being dragon level, because the rating he actually had doesn't matter, what matters is the fact that damage over time is even a factor in threat level in the first place.
This is a subsection of the Naming Fallacy. Just because they use the same naming conventions doesn't mean they're using the same qualifiers.I'm saying they're fishy because they're very directly based on a system that uses things other than AP,
Im in the middle of applying the 8-B downgrade CRT thats whyWhy is Pureblood 8-B but Zombieman for some reason is 9-A?
No? Are you sane? Just because durability wasn't that specific monster's strong suit doesn't mean it's not a factor. I shouldn't ******* have to explain this to you when you're literally the one who used the "difficulty of extermination is a factor" scan but here I ******* go
You're literally the one making this claim in the first place. So yes, you should have to explain it.but a monster can have shitty dura and great ap, or great dura and shitty AP, that doesn't mean that AP isn't a factor for durability guy, or dura isn't a factor for AP guy, it just means that wasn't their strong suit, and they had other factors.
AP, hence the point.the monster was not durable, so we can assume it could have been faster, smarter, or even had a higher AP
A point you still haven't remotely proven. Stop making shit up because nobody says intelligence is a large factor.Intelligence STILL falls under difficulty of extermination, cause it can be difficult to exterminate someone who's ten times smarter than you, even if you're ten thousand times stronger. Hence Joseph Joestar's existence.
It's not based on comparisons between characters (although that's a way to figure out what threat level to assign them, IIRC), it's based on their ability to threaten citizens and infrastructure. By this logic, no Dragon should be Dragon level because Tatsumaki could flatten them.throwing a million mosquitos at a building where each mosquito is tasked with picking some crumbs off its structure would be causing 8-C damage, and yet, throwing a million mosquitos at an 8-C character is going to do nothing at all
This doesn't remotely support your point. You're just projecting your own beliefs onto the scan in order to change the context of the entire point.do you realize how bad it is for your case that monsters that are not 7-B could get demon level simply by being part of a team that's hard to get rid of, and could destroy enough buildings to destroy a city over a period of time?
In the most indirect way possible.I wasn't ignoring you, it's called conceding a point, something I'm open minded enough to do.
Zombieman can clash with him.And ok, 9-B pureblood, that's still fine. Zombieman still downscales anyways, he's physically inferior to pureblood.
They're based on the same system, and the HA gives those monsters the same threat level based on their combat data that Drive Knight stole from the MA. It's obviously 1:1.this isn't worth arguing, and doesn't even affect anything anyways, since I've already admitted that MA ratings are fine
looked at the chapter and it seems smile man goes from one shotting a demon to struggling with a tiger, along will multiple statements of threat levels being unreliableChapter 80.5. I can't link it because the site is a no no on VSBW and I can't access imigur.
well, it's an author statement, and there's really no evidence you've given to disprove the author statementMy point is that the quote that implies that destruction over time is a factor in disaster level is in it of itself wrong.
the burden of example doesn't fall on me. It's directly stated that difficulty of extermination (which covers a shit ton of things, as I've explained already) is a factor. Now you explain why you get to ignore that there are other factors and assume every monster ranked dragon scales above beefcake. Can you prove that there weren't other factors that led to the characters becoming dragon? On top of that, the man even says "and so on" which opens the possibility to tons of other things being factors, further increase how ridiculously unreliable threat levels are, and thus exposing your completely baseless, reverse burden of proof, absolutely insane arguments as being useless until you give me some evidence. I'm too tired for this bullshit.You're literally the one making this claim in the first place. So yes, you should have to explain it.
Also, if you actually read the scan, it said it's an aggregate measurement. So no, a flying brick would not be Tiger level just because it can withstand a tank shot. Please me any example where someone is given a threat level based on speed or sheer durability?
You cherry picked the **** out of my post, completely ignoring the speed and intelligence part. Being stupid is one thing, but if you're going to engage in blatantly malicious debating practice, there's no reason to do this with you, since you're just gonna ******* say something wrong, get praised for it cause you're staff, and nobody is going to come out of this argument having changed their views or thought. If you want to win the argument, don't cherry pick right at my face, either actually come up with a good argument, or learn that it's ok to change your mind, like I do, like normal ******* people do.AP, hence the point.
Do you know what the phrase difficulty of extermination means? It means "how hard they are to kill"A point you still haven't remotely proven. Stop making shit up because nobody says intelligence is a large factor.
what does this have to do with absolutely anything I said whatsoever? I was explaining why a horde of mosquitos that can pick apart an 8-C structure can't kill an 8-C character, and somehow you took that as me saying whatever this is.It's not based on comparisons between characters, it's based on their ability to threaten citizens and infrastructure. By this logic, no Dragon should be Dragon level because Tatsumaki could flatten them.
Yes you idiot, them being combined doesn't increase their AP by your own admission, it just gives them numbers, making them harder to exterminate. I could have literally just sent what you sent just now, and I would have used it to prove my own pointThis doesn't remotely support your point. You're just projecting your own beliefs onto the scan in order to change the context of the entire point.
The fact is, The Three Crows are a group that got one-shot by A-Class heroes, and don't increase in speed when combined. It was their combined ability to deal damage and threaten lives that made them a Demon level threat. If we went by your logic, they'd probably still be Tiger level.
"sure" means yesIn the most indirect way possible.
yes, comparable yet inferior since he's blatantly overpowered and blitzed during the entire parts of the fight that we witness.Zombieman can clash with him.
Just because there's an overlap in monster association threat levels with HA levels doesn't mean they use the same system. In this case, them being different systems would actually be better for pushing your agenda of threat level scaling, since there's explicit confirmation that the hero association cares about aggressiveness and difficulty to exterminate (coughThey're based on the same system, and the HA gives those monsters the same threat level based on their combat data that Drive Knight stole from the MA. It's obviously 1:1.
Neither of which is shown as speed or intelligence.the burden of example doesn't fall on me. It's directly stated that difficulty of extermination (which covers a shit ton of things, as I've explained already) is a factor.
Don't need to, it's literally stated by the MA that it's based on destructive power, and there's only a few Dragon levels in the entire series that either aren't from the MA, don't possess mainly offensive powers/defences that scale to their offensive powers anyway, or don't blatantly scale to the others already.Now you explain why you get to ignore that there are other factors and assume every monster ranked dragon scales above beefcake. Can you prove that there weren't other factors that led to the characters becoming dragon?
I have an example of Dragon levels' abilities being based on their destructive abilities, so I'm not even remotely reversing the burden of proof on you. Now give me an example where that is not the case.On top of that, the man even says "and so on" which opens the possibility to tons of other things being factors, further increase how ridiculously unreliable threat levels are, and thus exposing your completely baseless, reverse burden of proof, absolutely insane arguments as being useless until you give me some evidence.
I literally addressed that tons of times. Learn to read, thanks.You cherry picked the **** out of my post, completely ignoring the speed and intelligence part.
I haven't insulted you once until this post, and you're coming out with this shit. This is malicious.Being stupid is one thing, but if you're going to engage in blatantly malicious debating practice, there's no reason to do this with you, since you're just gonna ******* say something wrong, get praised for it cause you're staff, and nobody is going to come out of this argument having changed their views or thought.
What if Jim knew how to activate rocket launchers, while Jim with an IQ of 200 didn't?now, who is harder to kill, Jim, or Jim with an IQ of 200. I'll wait for your response.
I was explaining why your analogy has absolutely no bearing on the context of the series, so it doesn't matter what what meaning you had behind it. Also, the horde itself still has 8-C AP overall, so it's a non-argument at this point.what does this have to do with absolutely anything I said whatsoever? I was explaining why a horde of mosquitos that can pick apart an 8-C structure can't kill an 8-C character, and somehow you took that as me saying whatever this is.
It increases their ability to cause destruction and property damage. Like holy ****, this is insanely simple to understand.Yes you idiot, them being combined doesn't increase their AP by your own admission
It doesn't make them harder to exterminate at all. They have the same durability, lost their intelligence for the most part and stay in one horde.it just gives them numbers, making them harder to exterminate. I could have literally just sent what you sent just now, and I would have used it to prove my own point
No. For me, it's like giving someone a paragraph that doesn't include what they say at all, and then they try to give the most non-sensical, roundabout explanation of why it actually supports their argument.I'm genuinely arguing with someone who gives a paragraph on why I'm right, and then says "and that's why you're wrong" and you have no idea how frustrating it is to put up with
You said 'sure, 9-C zombieman'. That is the most indirect way of saying anything ever, so you can **** off with this nonsense."sure" means yes
So they scale. That's what I was saying.yes, comparable yet inferior since he's blatantly overpowered and blitzed during the entire parts of the fight that we witness.
Overlap is putting it lightly.Just because there's an overlap in monster association threat levels with HA levels doesn't mean they use the same system.
Above all else outright suggests there are other factors in play, and not just AP.In this case, them being different systems would actually be better for pushing your agenda of threat level scaling, since there's explicit confirmation that the hero association cares about aggressiveness and difficulty to exterminate (coughspeed intelligence durability stamina hax range immortality regen etc.) while the monster association "cares about destructive power above all else"