Stronger unknown forms revision

[The_Smashor]

Samus and Dark Samus' Unknown keys should instead be At Least Low 4-C likely (far) Higher. This would also apply to Master Hand with Master Core, Undyne with Undyne the Undying and basically everyone else who has "Unknown" for one of their stronger forms (Obviously with their tier before that instead of Low 4-C). I honestly just used Samus and Dark Samus because these revisions needed a face and Samus is considered the strongest Low 4-C so it can be used to attract attention.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Why Undyne be Low 4-C?

 

[The_Smashor]

I mean they go to their lower tier but with an "At Least" in frount. Undyne the Undyning would be at least 7-C likely Far Higher.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I personally think At least Low 4-C, likely far higher actually does make sense for Dark Samus, PED Suit Samus, and Omega Ridley them, but SD wanted them Unknow due to us not knowing how much stronger they are then them.

 

[The_Smashor]

Well it should be the At Least likely Far Higher since otherwise their pratically unmatchable.

 

[GyroNutz]

Yeah, the OP threw me off a bit. But now that 2-B Undyne the Undying wank is dead there really isn't a reason why she shouldn't be "At least 7-C, likely far higher".

Speaking of which, bit nitpicky but her first key should simply be "7-C" since she only upscales from Low 7-Cs.

 

[Theglassman12]

This seems alright

 

[SomebodyData]

I'll say the reasonings for Metroid exclusively later, but for the general proposal:

Technically, you're correct that everyone here has something to scale to and can have an "at least". But only technically.

Realistically, if we follow this logic, why would we have Unknown profiles at all? Most characters have a dimensionality (3-D usually) that, again, as this logic disregards the gap entirely, would mean that at the very least, all unknown profiles could also be "At least 10-C, likely far higher. Again, technically.

Realistically we're being very disingenuous by placing a tier on many of these profiles. The "at least" implies that they could still be in the tier, which is clearly not the case half the time.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well the difference is, 10-C is an extremely on necessary low end; where as Low 4-C is still a feat exponentially high in a verse where Mid tiers are Tier 6 and higher up are very casual in 5-B. At least Low 4-C, likely far higher sounds way better than just Unknow; especially for characters like Ridley. Most people who haven't read the scaling chain just assume Ridley peaks at 5-B for instance.

 

[The_Smashor]

If their outside of the tier then they have a feat on that level and can be put there. The only acceptions that I can think of are characters with hard to calc feats like Slenderman (101 Amazing Slenderman Facts) (Because what the f*** is a hill?). Oddly enough, I don't even know why Samus and DS have Unknown. Samus' unknowns scale from Corruption Dark Samus. Meanwhile, Corruption Dark Samus is, from what I can tell, just Low 4-C Dark Samus but stronger. Power-ups are inconsistant, so it's still possible CDS is Low 4-C. I seriously doubt Master Core is 2-C (Unless Galeem becomes 2-C, witch is possible since they effected both the regular universe and Subspace with their attack, as well as possibly several other worlds, but that's a CRT for another time and probably iffy at best) meanwhile LV 10 Frisk, in the neuteral route, can still be fought and damaged by Asgore. Since monsters are weak to killing intent (Witch is why it's likely that Chara dosn't reach tier 2 until the end of the game) it's more that Chara is negating the monsters' durability with sheer killing intent then actually being too much stronger.

 

[Jinsye]

>Undyne doesn't even surpass 7-C in her Undying form

I'd rather Undyne remain as unknown due to both her and NEO being vague as all hell

 

[GyroNutz]

Well, the only solid scaling we have for Undyne the Undying is that she's comparable to someone who's >>> one-shotting those at Asgore level, who's far stronger than baseline 7-C. Impressive, but jumping two tiers when scaling from a Low 7-C feat is kind of a stretch. I've seen larger scaling chains that don't warrant a tier jump/unknown rating.

The 'likely far higher' sorta accounts for the vagueness. But this is just my opinion

 

[SomebodyData]

@DDM true, but then again do you remeber why there is a such a gap in the scaling? It's phazon, the very same thing you're saying doesn't make Dark Samus jump, despite already being in the upper ends of low 4-C and it being a feat of a defeated Dark Samus.

@Smashor Phazon hasn't been shown inconsistently yet tho. Even the lowest showing has 10-Cs jump to tier 7s and 6s, just ask Glass or DDM.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I really have no f**king idea how Undyne is even related to this Metroid revision thread?!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, the OP did bring up three different verses.

 

[GyroNutz]

It's not really just a Metroid revision thread if Undyne is in the tags

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's a Metroid revision thread technically speaking, but it's also and Undertale and Smash Bros revision thread at the same time.

 

[The_Smashor]

It's a general revision of this wiki in general. Metroid, Undertale and Smash are just examples.