Steampunk ~What a Beautiful Discussion Thread~ The New Era

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

In other news, with the completion of that Cracking Being page, I think my Critter Marionette draft is good enough to go as is.

Still interesting to think we have more Critters described ish more in the fanclub magazines that got interesting abilities.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Speaking of that, I got to fix some stuff with Inganock, which I suppose will happen in the side story CRT.

 

[RM97]

I'm back. Why is Lilly Low 1-C tho?

 

[Mycroft_er]

I'm back. Why is Lilly Low 1-C tho?

Pegasus' CRT.

What a Beautiful Series: Possible Tier 1 Upgrade

M's Nature Re-reading the series, got me thinking about M's tiering. Starting from the bottom working my way up; in Sona Nyl: The Red Tears of Huitzilopochtli, M is stated to be the featureless, infinite darkness, supporting the abyss and the vast cosmos. In a Sona-Nyl side story, M is...

vsbattles.com

Just scale: M -> Edison -> Lily.

He also had another CRT of Edison's Low 1-C feat if I remember correctly.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The Golden Gun which Lily did instinctual, is AZZT's power itself, also mentioned to be the same power as Sonido in the side stories, the power of gold.

But yea got to get M at Low 1-C first before scaling Lily there.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

It's Sanido (サニド), not Sonido. Sonido would be spelled as ソニド (Sonido)

Like you keep saying that and I keep going back to that speed technique from Bleach lol.

In any case, what's the side story CRT gonna be about? Stuff from the Engine Dictionary, Golden G'harne, that sort of thing?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

All of that, will probably include Tesla's annihilate all matter feat from Sona-Nyl too.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Ah, Tesla's ass-blaster to all matter.

That was also a Tesla back when he had a proper stabilization to his existence too iirc, that and with Neon's family still alive I'm pretty sure since that was in 1902 when he encountered Edison at the Tower.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Just posted Marionette. Anything that would have been done, it can be talked or edited after this next CRT.

 

[RM97]

Just posted Marionette. Anything that would have been done, it can be talked or edited after this next CRT.

Good stuff.

Pegasus' CRT.

What a Beautiful Series: Possible Tier 1 Upgrade

M's Nature Re-reading the series, got me thinking about M's tiering. Starting from the bottom working my way up; in Sona Nyl: The Red Tears of Huitzilopochtli, M is stated to be the featureless, infinite darkness, supporting the abyss and the vast cosmos. In a Sona-Nyl side story, M is...

vsbattles.com

Just scale: M -> Edison -> Lily.

He also had another CRT of Edison's Low 1-C feat if I remember correctly.

The Golden Gun which Lily did instinctual, is AZZT's power itself, also mentioned to be the same power as Sonido in the side stories, the power of gold.

But yea got to get M at Low 1-C first before scaling Lily there.

I commented there and me thinks Low 1-C is fine.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I realize why does M not have type 2 aspect of non-existent physiology even though he is a conceptual being but also a non-existent being? Why don't Meta=Critters have NEP despite the fact that they are just illusions that are not real?

Ok, so this isn't as far fetched as I thought, going through the side stories CRT, the Sharnoth web novel basically says Meta=Critters aren't lives, and were never even born, so this is actually legit figuring the other statements about being too warped to be off this world, and not existing outside a fairy tale.

I guess it makes sense, since Meta=Critters imitate Old Ones, who we know aren't real.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

That...actually makes kinda sense now tbh.

And if we go by how M's Jet Black just EE's people, he can also do that to things that practically aren't even real lol.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Not surprising, since we saw Edison erase Lily.

Meta=Critters being non-existent, shakes things up a little, before they were probably the weakest among the typical Cracking Beings, with that though, nobody except the Messengers are interacting with them.

I mean non-existence is something Kikai only get after being erased, and they can't do anything in that state. In a Kikai vs Meta=Critter vs match, a wanker might say Kikai can't affect Meta=Critters, while Kikai have too much hax resistance and invulnerability for Meta=Critter to harm them, but reactive evolution means eventually the Meta=Critter would win.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Pretty much, yeah.

And even though it's completely unknown exactly WHAT a Meta=Critter could turn into beyond Luminary-Type, it's still noteworthy in a way that M had to kill it if Moran and her Green Bullets or Mary w/Black Sword couldn't kill it at that point once they reached that point.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Now that you mention that, if Green Stones lets you affect fantasy beings like Old Ones and Meta=Critters, and said Meta=Critters can eventually adapt to it, so it's no longer effective, that's is broken.

It means even if you could affect a Meta=Critter, if you don't kill them quickly, pretty soon, you won't be able to affect them.

And to think we thought while op compared to a normal verse, Meta=Critters aren't that broken by Steampunck standards.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Exactly owo.

I think Meta=Critters seem to have an odd exception since while it has been used by the Society to kill illusions (because why else would they not when they captured Dagon in WN, tried to use with a legion of soldiers and warships to attempt to kill M in that same WN, and GK gave them to Berta and Jo's weapons to fight Tesla whose practically an illusion but has a physical anchor to reality thanks to Neon/Smilja's), they react differently by undergoing an unknown Paradigm process.

Aside from that, I probably should relook at the Karashrer profiles once I finish cleaning up the novel.

Since we know Kyrie also uses Cracking, even as more of a laser beam or light sword, it also makes the Cyber Zombies invulnerability/blessing/divine protection to physics a lot more better in detail since you have to use a power made by a 2-A/Low 1-C guy to even harm them. Otherwise, they just tank anything thrown at them.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea I read Act 3 of Karashrer, Cyber Zombies definitely need Invulnerability against physical attacks, only non-physical attacks can harm them.

My Side Story CRT is done I suppose, just need to have a couple minor calcs evaluated first before posting, also now that I think about it, should add the downgrade for Tesla and GK's regen, I don't see how it stays High-Godly, GK's metaphysical destruction is at best type 3 concept manipulation for now.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Yeah. Act 4, I'm hoping to finish up around the end of this week. I also want to get the chronology done because with having done the Engine Dictionary, you REALLY can compare to see how the timeline got so split between the main setting and Karashrer lol.

Also, you don't suppose Edison could also have some sort of boon with Kadath's Moon, which is also Azathoth?

We're not exactly told WHAT he can do with Kadath's Moon, but I imagine he probably could have some enhanced sight thing with it like what was done with GK and his Golden Eye collection in Gahkthun.

Mainly since if the Golden Eyes seen in various chars in the series can do all the sorts of wacky stuff, from Ati being able to see others movements clearly to Mary being able to comprehend Sharnoth and thus M, maybe Edison having what's pretty much the largest piece of the entity that once sat at the center of creation and dreamed up everything could give him some of that?

Also if you think about it, Edison is probably the most busted of Steampunk to date if you consider that he:

Created Cracking, which just about a lot of people in the series use however mundane they manifest as like flames and flying
Ate up Yog Sothoth, who was the embodiment of space-time as Nyarlathotep is for jet black
Controls the Moon of Kadath, which also so happens to be the largest known piece of the Outer God's Queen themselves, Azathoth.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Kinda iffy, since we haven't seen him do anything with it. At the very least though he should have the power of Gold, which is exactly what Lily used to harm him. Power of Gold was said to be above Cracking, harming Edison though makes that an understatement.

I think Sanido is the most busted, if she really is Azathoth's equal.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Edison thread

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Perhaps. But he's got essentially all of the things of the known Outer Gods: Nyar (himself), Yog (devouring), and Azathoth (control).

And that seems more like a self-noted boost apparently, although in terms of seeing everything, there can be some claim to that boastful statement.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Just added Marionete to the main Steampunk page.

I keep forgetting that I have scans of the magazines for the Inganock major stories (and others I wish I bought when I had the chance but they're now next to impossible to get from Japan now...) but haven't uploaded to them on the blog yet.

That's definitely what I'm gonna do once Karashrer is done.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

also now that I think about it, should add the downgrade for Tesla and GK's regen, I don't see how it stays High-Godly, GK's metaphysical destruction is at best type 3 concept manipulation for now.

Only that far? lol.

Damn, GK losing it out to Tic Tok Man and his Angels of Salvation (Read: Hell) once again.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Pretty sure it's mid- godly, since it's physical destruction + metaphysical, that they regenerate from, but could be wrong.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

That depends, but it can still be High Godly if anything.

Rosenkreuz's glare alone at base is said to reduce anything to glittering atoms or something, which is like High types? And he did that to something that's also made out of information, light, shadows, and equation if anything else (Critter Will-o-Wasp). That was something Tesla, on the very lowest possible point he was at, tanked with no issues from being in Rose's glare during their encounter.

The Branch Hands of Ultrathotep hits harder than that and actually attacks Tesla even when he goes all out. The hands deal physical and metaphysical damage, and we see that it was tearing up Tesla and his Knight of Thunder to the point he was losing the "data, memes, and knowledge that defines his mind".

With that said, and the fact Tesla regen'd from this, it MIGHT still be High Godly given this:

"High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, et cetera. For any aspect to qualify, destruction of that aspect must cause erasure of the character in some form and it must be shown that the character cannot exist without that fundamental aspect existing as well; in addition it must not be something that would ordinarily be restored by regenerating body, mind, or soul. As such, type 3 concepts must be evaluated with care and aspects which are not sufficiently expanded upon to make a judgement will not to qualify."

This is compared to Mid-Godly which is just the first three alone.

IDK, up to you if you think they don't quite qualify, because Tesla did ass-blast Rosenkreuz to nothing yet he completely instantly regen'd back, and the narration points out how their regen is equal in that regard or something...

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Rewatched the scene and I think you are right, GK's metaphysical damage caused Tesla to begin to fade to nothingness, losing the data which composes him.

High-Godly can stay, just reworded. The hands do info type 2 damage, but idk if we should list that as conceptual anymore, since all we really see is the information aspect, and nothing else is elaborated upon.

Speaking of that though, Messengers do the same thing, Underground Residents are nothingness, because the Messengers erased them, for them at least info type 2, and concept manipulation is cool I think.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Yeah, that's basically it.

It might not be conceptual though, I guess. It really sorta depends how you really define Tesla's existence with the whole "being an illusion thing who still has physical presence anchored to base reality" sort of thing, that and also technically being an abstract of sorts by sorta adopting the illusory sort of nature of a "fading Old One" (i.e Thunderbird).

If that isn't really defined, then yeah it needs to be changed up in wording justification.

Technically also, Tesla's lightning being able to erase information probably could be accounted for on the GK thing. While IDK if it means he's always being able to destroy people on such a level (would be wacky and possibly wanking if he was using it everytime given he fought almost the whole Council and threw them out), I would think in the case with GK, he was going all out to destroy him thoroughly and all...

Maybe I'm stretching it, but the two did throw out attacks made to wipe each other out completely.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Worked on lily's profile some more, still not done, felt it necessary to have keys for before and after Sona-Nyl, for obvious reasons like her using A to destroy Hypnos Eye, which was apparently creating multi-solar system sized pocket dimensions....

On another note, I am mostly convinced the context of the worlds in Lily's dream walking aren't parallel worlds, but different periods within the same timeline. If you think about what was shown were like events in the past, and present, we don't really see stuff that never occurred in the main timeline, ie idk Karashrer or Apocalypsis, or like variations of events we know happened.

The transcending space, and time statements, are just dimensional travel imo, and I think there is probably an argument for abstract existence for Lily and maybe Underground Residents? Probably just Lily, she is an illusion, a story, hence where all the dream walking nonsense comes from, because she is a story, she can see other stories.

Nonexistent story, yet still can catch a cold.....

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Worked on lily's profile some more, still not done, felt it necessary to have keys for before and after Sona-Nyl, for obvious reasons like her using A to destroy Hypnos Eye, which was apparently creating multi-solar system sized pocket dimensions....

4-A The A? **** yeah owo

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Not necessarily, it's A plus the power of gold from Lilly if I understand right, so more like Lily amping A.

So by himself he wouldn't be 4-A.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Oof.

Well, 6-A A is still pretty good.

Too bad there isn't a lot of mats to show him use Howler in Darkness a lot. The only times you'll ever see him use it to my knowledge is Engine Dictionary "Dream Wandering" and Hypnos Evil Eye.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

6-A is also kinda iffy, the attack he destroyed or whatever was spatial hax on a continental scale, not really pure destruction/energy.

His range is that high, plus spatial hax/power null? Haven't yet started working on A, so idk how the final profile will look like.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

That just means they're not even that OP in the raw AP sense but in hax then.

Well if not even that, he can probably just scale above his Critters or above even the composite Messenger (7th) given that's like his strongest "Critter" yet with it also being from a piece of M's Jet Black power.

Something's gotta be accounted for his Post Sona Nyl key, and it'd be laughable to even imply any lower than that.

 

[Mycroft_er]

On another note, I am mostly convinced the context of the worlds in Lily's dream walking aren't parallel worlds, but different periods within the same timeline. If you think about what was shown were like events in the past, and present, we don't really see stuff that never occurred in the main timeline, ie idk Karashrer or Apocalypsis, or like variations of events we know happened.

The transcending space, and time statements, are just dimensional travel imo, and I think there is probably an argument for abstract existence for Lily and maybe Underground Residents? Probably just Lily, she is an illusion, a story, hence where all the dream walking nonsense comes from, because she is a story, she can see other stories.

Sounds like Time Travel to me.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Sounds like Time Travel to me.

Yea, time travel + dimensional travel, as she can also go to some places outside the universe ie where Tesla was sealed, and Elysia.

Speaking of that, it's a nonexistent place, no wonder the gods are interested in Lily, cause she is also nonexistent like them.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

On the sbuhect of Lily's "worlds traveling", that makes sense. That's probably why I never brought it up even now is because of how confusing it was to explain what Lily was doing in the WN + Engine Dictionary story.

Since they always bring up the whole "story of present, story of past" thing, what Lily is doing is just viewing stuff from what's already happened and things that is happening such as meeting Ati during Inganock's enclosed days to Mary whose currently working alongside Holmes as his assistant.

The dimensional travel can still work that way, yeah, since Lily went to that one strange place of "statues" and stuff, to the Alcatraz Time Prison, and Elysia for the Bar.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I forgot to bring it up, but wouldn't Edison also naturally have dimensional travel or could this be chalked up to some omnipresence stuff?

In one of the Sharnoth fandisc's, when M was talking about Tick Tock Man, he said the latter appeared in their history/sky "three times", the last of which was back in 1822 which is the year that Steampunk's history seemed to have diverged from our history.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Honestly thought about removing dimensional travel, it's a weird topic now.

Edison and M, technically exist "everywhere", in the sense everything is apart of them, however that doesn't mean they are aware of everything going on "inside" them at once, we saw this kind of thing with M when he wanted to meet A, he flies his consciousness to Elysia to observe A.

So in short they already exist "everywhere", so they aren't traveling between dimensions, they just aren't conscious of everywhere, all the time.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Oh yeah, that one.

It's probably the same too back in M's early days as the Old One's rulers. Had one of his thousand manifestations come to earth and all that when he even tried to have the Old Ones reach and make contact with his Jet Black.

It's probably the same with Karashrer's worldline too tbh, since Edison ALSO exists there according to the chronology and M is alluded to per his "Shadow Builder" moniker + Sakurai's old tweets even confirm it sorta when she explains how M is still not a kind dude if what potentially happened in that world (Karashrer) is anything to go by...

But yeah, it's probably redundant now if we've established that they're the embodiments of the nodes/elements/traits that make up the "Steampunk Universe". Why travel to anywhere when you technically already exist "everywhere", just need to place awareness of what's going on when something catches their attention like A touching M's Jet Black or Edison having his attention grabbed by Kyrie asking him for more power.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Can remove it in my side story CRT.

Having done a lot more work on A, think it's time I brought up the elephant in the room. I don't think we should scale his Critters at all to others. Exhibit A:

His Critters take on a physical form, contrasted to the Inganock ones. Also they grant quite a few resistances, it's pretty much like they're Kikai. In fact, I would say they are more Kikai, than Critters, seeing as they also have steel bodies.

Though it's confusing, I mean technically A doesn't exist, so he isn't physical either, but his power is?

But yea we don't see any voice of panic, no phenomenons of death etc.