Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends- Episode IV The Phantom Lore

[ByAsura]

As Shadow said, it's potential and his ceiling of power. Child Anakin, despite being unable to use the force, still had a count of 20,000, which is higher than Yoda's. He didn't lose or gain any later, just enhance his power by training.

 

[Firestorm808]

In any case, the root is how the Magic System of Star Wars developed over time.

In the OT, it was a relatively soft magic system with relatively simple powers like physical enhancement, sensing, persuasion, moving stuff, and lightning.

When the PT came out, some other explanations and rules were added. Did they all make sense or contradict the OT? It's a mixed bag, but that's what the original creator George gave us, so we had to deal with it. Visions and creating/prolonging life with the dark side were added to the force power list.

Expanded Univese stuff and the CGI Clone Wars come along.

The Disney purchase happens, and only the Movies and the CGI Clone Wars are canon along with future books. They now had full control of how the story and the Force should progress without the differing writing staff of the Expanded Universe.

I feel that with the clean slate that Disney got themselves, they could have set things up better of why things happened or worked a certain way.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Yeah not to mention those movies are objectvtily bad poorly writing edited and thier story and character arcs are extremely poor form a objetive point of view. And Yes there is objective ways to say if a movie is good or bad based on things that are proveable. Any material that conterdicts a another well established one is objectively bad. The Last Jedi Hyperspace ramming now shows it is possible when the rebls the republic the confederacy of independent systems and the empire all have hyperdrive capable ship why do they not hyperspace ram thier ship in the bad guy fleets.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Or that the fact in star wars interdiction ships gravity well generators mass shadow and tractor beam based technologies exist and are extremely ese to come by. Why do star destroyers can not use thier hyperdrives in the planetary atmosphere even though the clone wars has multiple expamples of even capital ships do exactly that? Navigational computers exist. Or that a ship barely bigger than a allegiance heavy star destroyer can now blow up entire planets. Where is that power generation and why the solar ionization powerplant when the resurgents have hypermatter annhilation reactors.

 

[Firestorm808]

In order to enter hysperspace, ships need to go lightspeed. Basically, the ship rams into something at lightspeed before it can enter hyperspace. Nothing was really stopping such a thing from happening in the story, but it makes space battles moot when you can send a few X-wings to ram a capital ship or the Death Star. I suppose you could argue the cost of the hyperdrive, but that's not really explained in the Disney canon. It doesn't help that many ships normally are lost in space battles.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Because those movies lack interal consitence though. Like the fact a Super Dreadnought can not blow up a frigate even though it is many millions of times more mass and hundreds of times larger. Or when that exact same ship ca not hit targets many hundreds of thousands of kilometers in space even though thier is zero gravity wells atmosphers or anything like that preventing them even thought they have incredibly advanced faster than light drives sensors and commication system non.like almost all ships capble of getting them. Mass producing droid and cloine armies in mear years at the very most. Planetary Stellar and Solar System grade weapons on capital ships the size of a normal battlecruiser on the lower end of the scale. The Sith star destroyers have planetary killing weapons even though they are only 2,400 meters long and pack dozens of heavy and light weapons emplacements. Technological deplovement was extremely slow up uintill rather recently.

 

[Naitez]

You'd think Obi-Wan would have been taught how to heal with the force before Qui-Gon was stabbed by Maul. Apparently, he's not as talented as Rey or the Yoda species.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Or luke and darth vader or any of the jedi that were wounded in order 66 or that matter

 

[Firestorm808]

We know that the first Death Star used Kyber crystals as a power source. The second used hypermatter reactors to charge faster. The sheer size was because of the power it used. Similarly, Starkiller base used a star to destroy multiple planets.

What did Palpatine use that he could make thousands of planet destroying guns smaller than a Capital Ship?

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

something more powerful than god because and excutor class should be able to blow up entire solar systems and the death stars entire galaxies

 

[Naitez]

Some guys came up with the idea that he spent 30 years building all those ships on his own with Sith sorcery, which is stupid but it's Star Wars. Also, at least 5-B crippled Palpatine. They also came up with the idea that a generation of loyalists just mined crystals on Exegol and grew to a population of millions underground just to build these ships, which is slightly more believable.

 

[Firestorm808]

If they had Sidious destroy a planet with just the Force it would be an interesting confirmation of what Vader said about the Death Star in the OT.

 

[ByAsura]

You really need to watch these movies again if you're grasping at these straws.

1. The Supremacy couldn't destroy that frigate because it was out of range. Once it came in range, the ship was blasted apart.

2. Questionable physics aren't inconsistency. Even in The Empire Strikes Back, we see many attacks from a Star Destroyer stop before hitting the Millennium Falcon, and turbolasers having limited range is mentioned multiple times. Making micro jumps in hyperspace is incredibly difficult, and the ship can easily end up somewhere else, including into one of the many ships around them.

3. The First Order can mass produce droids, they just don't for battle because their soldiers are far more effective than the likes of a B1 and they have significantly less resources than the Empire, which also used Stormtroopers instead of Droids and had a speciest, human-based outlook, meaning they wouldn't even really use droids for combat.

4. Why shouldn't Star destroyers have planets destroying capabilities? A capital ship larger a Mandator I could supply enough energy destroy a planet, and the technology has no doubt improved.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Because the out of range excuse makes zero sense thier is no such thing has a maximum range in space only the range only when you can reasonably hit something at that distance. They can cross a Galaxy use faster than technologies and build planet killing weapons but can not hit a ship a close range in space trem then the other one is hundreds of times more massive and mand millions of times more massive. seems logical sensical and right to me

 

[ByAsura]

So basically, you're saying that because they're an advanced race they shouldn't have ships with limited range? Ok, fine (even though this is fiction where literally anything can be possible), but don't try to pin this just on The Last Jedi, that's not the origin of this weakness, it's even mentioned in Return of the Jedi.

• LANDO: Yes! I said closer! Move as close as you can and engage those Star Destroyers at point-blank range.
• ACKBAR: At that close range, we won't last long against those Star Destroyers.

 

[Naitez]

The Star Destroyers on Exegol just opens a whole other can of worms. Aside from the labor needed to build them, there's the logistics on getting the materials needed to construct them. Exegol possibly couldn't have all the materials Palpatine needed to build hundreds of planet destroying Star Destroyers, so he would have people go outside of that difficult to navigate red space cloud to retrieve materials from other places, which would be suspicious to both the New Republic and the First Order. That's where the "Sith sorcery to build them all" comes as an easy handwave for all that despite how massively dumb it is.

 

[Firestorm808]

I'm confused. Your quote says that a general mounted superlaser would need a capital ship at least the size of a Mandator-class Dreadnaught. Said weapon wouldn't be powerful enough to destroy a planet. It didn't say that the ship could supply energy to destroy a planet.

With that in mind, Mandator Class ships about 8000 meters long. In comparison, Sidious' Xyston-class Star Destroyers are 2406 meters.

 

[ByAsura]

@Natse Palpatine had contingencies in the Unknown Regions (where Exegol is located), such as the First Order, where kyber crystals are abundant enough to be fitted on ships.


@Firestorm I said larger. Also, the technology, as I mentioned, has improved.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Maybe those star destroyers wanted to destroy the cruisers and not everything else. Maybe the emperor wanted those star destroyers to kill the fleet at close range may be the shield around the moon had something we just do not now. Stardestroyers can vaporizer planet-killing astroids with no iusse I get that it is for storying telling and narrative. He wanted ww2 Korea and Vietnam in space and that is want he got. and it took Multiple shots form the Supmreacys main guns to destroy likley unshelled starship.I was talking about in general not just The Last Jedi. I have watched the movies enought times to very clearly understand that by now. and that was in Legends witch was decannonzised by Lucasflim

 

[ByAsura]

You're making up events that aren't even implied by the movies, this is a sign that you're looking too hard for a reason why they don't work. Also, he didn't want to kill them with the Star Destroyers, the Emperor explicitly wanted them to box in the Resistance fleet for a demonstration of the Death Star II's capabilities.

So what if it took 3 blasts instead of 1? Do you really think the film makers care so much that they take every little scene and say "hey, this should've taken 1 blast instead of 3"?

 

[Naitez]

@Natse Palpatine had contingencies in the Unknown Regions (where Exegol is located), such as the First Order, where kyber crystals are abundant enough to be fitted on ships.

And this was done all behind the First Order's back. They didn't even know Palpatine still existed before TRoS. Kylo Ren sure didn't and he was Supreme Leader for a time.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

And Phantom Mence Empire Strikes Back a New Hope and everything else I get that. By now I complety undewrstand that and no the first oder troopers are vastly inferior droids will always be superior to biological life in many respects. you can update droids at anytime they also do not age in the same way biologiocal lifge does for the most part lightspeed thnking feflexes agility manuability and more are possible with droids.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

. Destorying an earth sized planet takes about 10 to the 33 joules the sun puts out 10 to the 26 joules per second for comparison. Nerds tend to to that in case you have not noticed by now. Joking with you aside yeah but all of those are at least somewhat likely.

 

[ByAsura]

@Natse That's not the point. The Emperor still had contingencies in the Unknown Regions and kyber crystals to build a fleet. Also, the Sith Eternal sure knew about him.

@Resurgance The B1 is the most ineffective soldier ever. They tell you this in the Clone Wars. As for the B2, the Galactic Republic, Empire, and First Order are, again, speciest and hardly use droids for combat, unlike the Confederacy of Independent Systems. Blowing up a planet is not unlikely in fiction, I don't care how much energy it takes, this isn't real and doesn't break any of Star Wars' established rules.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

No I think they really do not care at all. It took a shot to destroy a Mon Cal warship with the deathstar main weapon.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

B3 destoryers and that is one model not even a good one and extrmeley sub par one at that sorry if I am being a jerk to you right now I am only trying to have a little fun over here.

 

[ByAsura]

Yes, as the demonstration I was talking about. The Emperor literally set the whole battle up to show how powerful and effective his new Death Star was, which is why he only ordered Death Squadron to fire if necessary and keep the Rebel Fleet boxed in.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Droids are not biological those would be cybords like the borg and even they are not 1 race. bnut tens of thosuands of races. Sorry if I am nitpicking extrmeley hard again.

 

[Firestorm808]

When Disney sells the details to understand the movie alongside the movie in books or fortnite instead of weaving them in the movie.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

10 to the 33 joules would destroy the earth in 24 hours you would need almost 14,000 times more energy to do that in one hour and 2.16 million times that do do that in 1 minute

 

[ByAsura]

@Resurgance It doesn't matter that they're physically superior. Once again, the Empire and First Order are speciest and puts humans first. Combat Droids are mostly for security or infiltration. Also, it doesn't matter that destroying a planet is difficult, they can, so just please get over it.

@Firestorm This stuff, including the Unknown Regions, is mentioned in the movie. Probably the only part that isn't is the First Order being speciest and the stuff about Mandator+-sized ships producing enough power for planet-destroying weapons, even then, the movie doesn't give us a reason to suggest these are wrong.

 

[Naitez]

When Disney sells the details to understand the movie alongside the movie in books or fortnite instead of weaving them in the movie.

A lot of stuff in TRoS feels like it was made for EU writers to expand on, stuff that should have been answered in the goddamn movie. Star Wars and Star Trek isn't like Lost, JJ Abrams. The movie should have been 30 minutes longer and it should have had test screenings, which it didnt.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Byasur starkiller base can do that an at the very least intergalactic distances tens of thousands of light years away . So yeah it proves your point here.

 

[Firestorm808]

They mentioned kyber crystals in the movie?

 

[ByAsura]

Not kyber crystals, but Palpatine hiding out in the Unknown Regions with contingencies.

 

[Naitez]

No, they didn't. The ships are they powerful just because.

 

[ByAsura]

Why do they need to explain why these ships are planet-busters, aside from being fitted with superlasers and Death Star technology? By the way, they never explain why the Death Star can planet-bust until Rogue One if you're only going by the movies.

People are just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking at this point.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

The death star was a plot element

 

[ByAsura]

So are the Star Destroyers.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Still you've got to admit Palpatine just having an armada of Planet Busting Star Destroyers is bullshit