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Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends- Episode IV The Phantom Lore

Guns that needed time to charge, and were given that time to charge when Poe didn't do as ordered and rejoin the fleet, instead extending the battle out until the last possible moment. They didn't need to sacrifice all their bombers just to take out one ship when escape was the goal.
 
Then how come they tracked all four ships they could have gone in other dictions. The dreadnoughts cannon were about to fire on the fleet is that impossible for you to comprehend. Plus the movie was not ven screened before hand am a major mistake. He calimed multiple times that he say thiuer is no valid criticism for this movie. He only directed 3or 4 other movies unlike had the entire trilogy been under the direct command of JJ Abrams.
 
They were chanrged up just about theer likley was no other time and how many dreadnoughts get enganed in verly poorly directed space battles. They were red hot and on the starships. Destroying the dreadnought also prevented the first order form using it at craft or just simply destroying the rebal ships at range it was a fleet killer not just a ship killer. the dreadnought was extremely expensive and costly to build and maintain many of the first orders best were no it and it was extremely under-gunned for its size.
 
At least save the bunker busters for the ground battle it could have destroyed enough of the vehicles that hyperspace capable shuttles could have jumped toi the neatest friendly system. The bunker buster has maaaive turbolaser cannons for a ship of its size.
 
@Catalyst75 Noted, through the point remains that he was informed that the future is always in motion, and it is established that Force Visions are not absolute. It stands that Luke's character is derailed.

You claimed that Luke's argument to Rey was that Jedi are not needed for all battles; they are there to inspire others to act, not be soldiers. But his argument to Rey is that the Jedi should die off because they are flawed.

It was stated that the First Order was tracking "Our big ship" (not "capital ships", and the ridiculously underfunded Resistance only has a single capital ship in the Raddus), and the single tracker used at a time requires at least several minutes; it works by calculating a target's trajectory which takes the tracking computer some time. And if your position is: "We should assume they can track all ships by default", then the movie breaks the rules it established to the audience, since to sabotage the hyperspace tracker stopping them from hyperspacing undetected they need to hyperspace undetected to snatch a code breaker. Also, by conceding that the First Order slowly chasing the Resistance for 18 hours is stupid, do this mean you concede the plot is stupid?

Poe was sent to distract the drednought, but before Poe started arguing on whether they should destroy the dreadnought, and before Poe destroyed the last anti-aircraft, and before Poe gave the order for bombers to attack, this is what Leia said: "You did it, Poe. Now get your squad back here so we can get out of this place." As seen in the film. Except that Poe didn't attack with a squad. This is a continuity error. They exist in a sloppily written movie like TLJ; for example Finn says that he knows where is the breaker room dedicated for the hyperspace tracker is because he used to mop the ship (so he was situated on both the Starkiller base and on Snoke's Mega-Class Star Destroyer, how convenient), but he previously exclaimed that a hyperspace tracker is impossible.

The only reason the Resistance's leadership survived was because the dreadnought targetted an empty base for some reason instead of targetting the stationary ships from the beginning; so wanting to destroy it is an understandable position; from Poe's prespective that is a do-or-die victory.

Sending a broadcast to potential allies (out of desperation for the sake of survival) is not a priority since it can be done later; survival is.

Yes, Holdo is a very terrible judge of character. I am not saying that the casino planet code breaker plan isn't stupid, but a commander who causes her entire subordinates to mistrust her to the point of mutiny is not doing a good job. Yes she is allowed to keep information secret from her subordinates when appropriate, however there is no explanation for why should be keeping her plan secret (sans that she is siphoning fuel for lifeboats for a reason she refuses to explain to her crew) except that she is incompetent and stupid. Also, Holdo likes Poe, so the claim that she distrusts him is unsubstantiated.
 
@Shadow The only thing I'm getting from your argument is the following: Poe bears no responsibility for his actions because "reasons"; all the blame should be on Holdo because "reasons" i.e. "B-B-B-BUT LOOK AT WHAT SHE MADE POE DO!"

Really, that's all I'm getting at this point.

. Also, by conceding that the First Order slowly chasing the Resistance for 18 hours is stupid, do this mean you concede the plot is stupid?

I conceded nothing.The Resistance's plan was to get to Crait so they could broadcast a signal to the rest of the galaxy. They couldn't simply jump away because the First Order would just track them. The only ship left when the transports departed for Crait was the Raddus, which is what Leia meant by the First Order "tracking the big ship". Again, all of that is in the film.

You claimed that Luke's argument to Rey was that Jedi are not needed for all battles; they are there to inspire others to act, not be soldiers. But his argument to Rey is that the Jedi should die off because they are flawed.

The only thing truthful there is that he said the Jedi aren't needed for all battles, and that the Jedi deserved to end because of their flaws.

All of that was Luke's character at the beginning of his arc in the film. At the end of the film, after his development as a character, Luke Force-Projected himself to Crait to give the Resistance time to retreat, and in turn return as a legend who inspires each others to act.

That's his character arc in the movie. Don't lie about what I said or claimed.
 
Why the hell that planet so far away why the hell that planet at all. Why the chase when the first oder could have fired at the capital ships already and destroyed the transports when they lack faster than light technologies. And than thier is the stupid canto bright sub plot that goes on for over 30 minutes of the movie for some reason beyond my comperhension. Rose and Finn do not seem to on on the ship for multiple hours each way. possible hyperspace upgrades. And thier would have been on the ship for multiple hours anyway.
 
Anf why the hell does it take turbolasers each hundreds of meters long mutiple shots to destroy capital ships orders of magnatude smaller than them. Should they be able to penerate battle station and planetary grade shields and armor plating in a single well placed hit. Country to Continent level. Should they not far out range the much smaller turbolaser cannons on smaller ships with ease. The Supramcy has zero weapon on its bridge rear side or point defense weapons. The Resurgent still has an overexposed command center reactor sensors and commication systems onboard lack of capital ship grade proton torpdoe launchers and comncussion missile launchers a massive forward hanger bay and overexosed engine arrays . But than the dreadnought is dumb anyway
 
@Resurgence

Neither the films nor the Clone Wars TV Series have ever depicted anything remotely like what you claim they should be, and that's all I'll say on that.

Also, are you incapable of thinking constructively? Crait was chosen because it was an out-of-the-way planet with an old Rebel base located there. The Resistance had no way of knowing the First Order would be able to track them through hyper-space to that exact system, and making another jump with the First Order tracking them would only lead to the First Order pursuing them again, hence the chase.
 
Wow we are insulting peoples intellgence levels. I said the supremacy weapons you moron not anything else. Re read the ******* post. I agree with the second half though. Never mentioned the clone wars in the last few of my posts or the seires witch the clone wars would be. Read the posts again mate your rhe one who is incable of thinking constructively if we are going to shot insults at eacher I can play that game too
 
Catalyst75 said:
@Resurgence
Neither the films nor the Clone Wars TV Series have ever depicted anything remotely like what you claim they should be, and that's all I'll say on that.

Also, are you incapable of thinking constructively? Crait was chosen because it was an out-of-the-way planet with an old Rebel base located there. The Resistance had no way of knowing the First Order would be able to track them through hyper-space to that exact system, and making another jump with the First Order tracking them would only lead to the First Order pursuing them again, hence the chase.
Click to expand...
The discripion matches the supremacys weapons not anything else the supremacy you. Shooting insults at people is very good way top derail the conversation and piss them off. I never mensioned the clone wars or star wars tv, in general, the Malevolence had Ion Cannons has her main weapons not Turbolasers as her primary weapons unlike most strar wars capital ships.I agreed with multiple of you posts so far
 
man I am sorry but that kind of aggressive wording is not helping right now at all. Please just read some more. But is really not that hard to fige out I ment the supramcys weapons batteries not anything else. No ship has turbolaser batteries that massive. And only the Subjagator class ion cannons are in that general size range. I said turbolasers pointing directing the Supramcys main weapons emplacements. We both need to calm down but strawmaning your aguments and pissing people off is not helping you right now either.
 
I know you are talking about the Supremacy's guns, but my point still stands.

Nothing you have said thus far has shown me that any of your criticisms are based on any form of constructive criticism. You keep on ranting about things that are clearly presented in the film while acting as if they aren't, such as when you complaint about "why Crait", even though the reason is spelt out in the movie; your arguments almost always distort and twist around events in the film just to benefit your rantings, and you've consistently done so with close-to-incoherent posts.

So, yes, I am about at the end of my patience. So, I'm done for the day.
 
No because i never mentioned star wars tv anyway. I agreed you you on the second half of multiple posts I was asking quasions not criticising. No it was not spelled out. You did the samer multiple times. Like claming it was the admial who was the superior military commander when poe did not lost 3 capital ships many transports hundreds of crew and multiple hours of back up time. I never twistied or distorted anything I watched the movie at least a dozen times already. You have been ranting for multiple hours too. Short you have got patience. Thier were were going to get destroyed not kncking out the dreadnoughts point defense guns ment nother because of the multiple battlecruisers near by. Those had hyperdrives too. I get why the chose the planet it is fay away. But they already a superior military force ontop them of anyway. It was a question. Poe should have been promigin . Yousaid it was all poes fult the small craft got destroyed compety ignoreing the fact TIE fighters shot missiles directly into the hangers. That made expulsions dozens of meters in diameter each for multiple seconds and it seem they only lost about a dozen fighters and 6 bombers for dreadnought that has a crew of over 220,000 people on it. I was speculating alot I know that. But amdial purple hair is the objectively inferior military comander. Losing at least two to 3 dozen transports each capable of carrying 60 people. Let 3 capital ships get destroyed. Leting over 1,000 crew mebers die. Poe let maybe 50-60 people die for a dreadnought to get destroyed that had a crew of over 220,000 people dozens of tie fighters and orbital autocannons capable of smashing planetary and battlestation grade shields. You promote him. And a very rare and expensive ship that must have been. That is way better than the admiral died for the first 2 ish hours of the movie and the target she hit was not even fully destroyed. I have only made a few spelling mistakes since I have gottn much better a spell checking.
 
That had a crew of 2.25 million was much bigger than the other dreadnought and destroyed at least 2 dozen resurgent class battlecruisers.. You have been manipulating and controlling the augment since hour one dear . I should have clearly marked my posts has speculation upgrades down grades or whatever I admit that but you should have done the same. With labels so that people now that it was it was. I should have stopped ranting sonner than I did. That was things that I needed to work much more than I did
 
@Shadowbokunohero
According to Rian, he did not read or hear any valid criticism for his movie, and if he was back in time he can't think of anything to change in order to improve the movie. So the smugness does not help in not making this the most hated Star Wars movie. So you believe the chase plot, the casino plot, and the mutiny plot is coherent? (saying the characters were being incredibly dumb and/or incompetent is bad writing, not coherent one).

Good luck finding good and exciting extended material based on the Sequel Trilogy. Can you explain what in what ways are the sequels overall better than the prequels in a 'film-making point of view'? Plot and story? Worldbuilding? Aesthetics? Choreography?

If you actually think the Last Jedi is the most hated star wars film then your way too young to even be talking about the Most hated film, TLJ is the most Divisive not the most hated, the backlash of the Prequels make TLJ look like a sweet summer child.

Both Canto Bight and Rey storyline are coherent and so are all the characters with the Exception of Hux.


> Good luck finding good and exciting extended material based on the Sequel Trilogy.

  • Star Wars Bloodlines
  • Captain Phasma
  • Rise of Kylo Ren comic
  • Poe Dameron comic line
are all fantastic


> Can you explain what in what ways are the sequels overall better than the prequels in a 'filmmaking point of view'? Plot and story? Worldbuilding? Aesthetics? Choreography?

The Prequels are only Superior in Worldbuilding and conceptional ideas and Score, the execution of those ideas are horrendous, writing is part of the execution.

The ST has better

  • Directing
  • Acting
  • Editing
  • Cinematography
  • Dialogue
  • Usage of it's effects
  • Plot (The ST has an Inferior story but it executes it's worse story better)
  • Narrative (the PT narrative is insanely hurt by TPM and AOTC)


Asethetics are fairly more subjective.
 
Even thogh people who liked the movie hated canto bright what happed to luke what happedned to hux and what happened to snoke, The Last Jedi is no longer cannon because the Rise of Skywalker retconed everything in to hell
 
Yeah it is poes fult that tie fighters shot missiles that made explosions many dozens of meters high and wide and destroyed all of the small craft ven though one of them launched left. And it is his fault the bombers were destroyed even though he only cut coms with himself and Lea even though a massive siege dreadnought was going to blow up the fleet. and the Admiral in charge killed 3 of her cpaital ships within one hour. dozens of transports and hundreds of personal in a attack that still left the emergy able to destroy them in a ground battle and deployed multiple massive ground ground vehicle some of them with battleship caliber weapons. And a super laser siege cannon. bigger than most corvettes. And destroyed the largest capital ship and did not even crippled the intended target in maneuver that was never tried before The Last Jedi. Why do the suprmacys turbolasers arc the way they do anyway. Canto bright and the execution sances were dumb. Capital Phasma had nothing to do but die and say some kind of nice things. Snoke was killed without any major reason. Hux not realizing the Raddus was going to hyperspace in to the supremacy and not even trying to blow it up. or just till the ship up word.
 
The Xyston class not being able to use shields hyperdrives commications sensors and nvational becons ven though it can blow up planet sized targets. The use of Horse like animal were youy adversies have jet pack grade technology. The wrtting direction story and world building the character arcs and development in those movies suck. The use of superweapons to advice the plot of the story or giant massive god ships to advice the story. Almost everything new is just a another TIE craft X Wing Y Wing B Wing and A Wing version. The use of fuel canto bright and maps. The resistence bombers not making any god dam sense and hlaf a TIE craft can blow up 3 of them even though it is called heavy bombers. Magnetic bomb bays that are vertical. even msssive star destroyer type ships but wing shaped and called the mega class not the supremacy class. The Extreme overuse of hyperspace as a plot device multiple times.
 
f the last jedi costed 315 million and given the Rise of Skywalker is the last star wars movie we might ever see. a total production cost of 350 million is more likely and inline witch what endgame costed in real-life too. It did not make 300 million in profits. Star Wars, in general, has been decling for years now and merch sales are down across the borad. Even if it only coasted 275 million the marketing for that movie was still around 150-175 million dollars worth at least so that is at least 550-600 million plus 275 million dollars for a total of around 875 million. Solo coasted 300 million had a marketing budget of 60-66ish percent for a total of around 450-500 million dollars plus another 300 million dollars so that the company can rep in that reward. Thier was multiple massive reshoots lasting for months and maybe even well over a year so I would add at least 50-75 million dollars to that figure. and 66 percent marketing budget to cost ratio. No even if it costed 275 million dollars it would still be half that amount of money endgame made at least 800-900 million in profits.
 
for a Total of 360 plus 66 percent is 600 million dollars plus another 360 million for the movie itself and you get a grand total of 960 million dollars 225 plus million more than that esimate. for a net profit of under 100 million dollars. Solo made about 400 million it lost at least 200-250 million dollars. Thier is no way the last moive in the skywalker saga costed less than the last jedi. Avengers infinity war for compasion coasted about 320 million dollars and endgame costed about 40 million more than that.
 
Disney spends more than 50 percent of the films production budget on marketing and per wikipedia stuidos only get around 54.5 percent of the total figure. it is the production cost the market normaly around 50-60 percent of the flims production budget is on market the company only gets 54.5 percent of that plus wantever the flim costed for the production company. Add those things up and you get the real coast of around 2.5-3 times of what the moive coasted during production to make and you get the figures. I had to split it up into 3 parts for ease of reading. Otherwise it would have been too massive
 
Disney spends more than 50 percent of the films production budget on marketing and per wikipedia stuidos only get around 54.5 percent of the total figure. it is the production cost the market normaly around 50-60 percent of the flims production budget is on market the company only gets 54.5 percent of that plus wantever the flim costed for the production company. Add those things up and you get the real coast of around 2.5-3 times of what the movie coasted during production to make and you get the figures. it can be easy if you do it enough
 
> it did not make 300 million in profits

yes it did this is literally from Industry professionals with inside sources.

please stop acting like a flatearther.

> Solo made about 400 million it lost at least 200-250 million dollars

it lost 74 Million Objectively.

> given the Rise of Skywalker is the last star wars movie we might ever see. a total production cost of 350 million is more likely and inline witch what endgame costed

It's not the last Star Wars movie and we know the Production cost, not sure why your creating imaginery numbers.

> the last jedi costed 315 million

The Last Jedi cost 200 Million
 
it did noy. Professonal can mean anything. 265 plus 66 percent plus another 275 is about 475 million plus 275 million that is 750 million dollars did needed to break even if it had the budget of that amount with it did not those are Disney numbers. it likley costed about 350 million dollars if the least jedi costed around 315 million dollars., I think add 45 million more is a reasonable increase. that is 360 million plus 66 percent of that kind of marketing it got plus another 360 million for getting a net profit back. And you get 600 million dollars plus 360 million necause that how much it likley costed to get the moive made. And you get 960 million dollars the Rise of Skywalker has onld made 1.074 billion dollars ,
 
That only about 96 million. Those quote and quote professionals are wrote down the 275 million plus 50 percent plus another 275 million and with that number get is around 300 million dollars in profit. Disney spends on those kinds of movies around 66 percent of that it toke to make them . It did no cost less than Solo let alone the last jedi to make bu 25 million to 35 million dollars. They went max out with that movie. You can ad at least 70-80 million dollars. That number does not include taxes at all witch would make up abpout 50-66 ercent of the movie plus marketing cost combined even by thouse numbers it is still only 175 million dollars. Disney spend about 360 million dollars judgeting form endgames budget
 
Those Industry professionals have been doing this for over 5 decades and have access to Information that is not readily available to the public, they are objectively better than any pseudo logic your trying to use.

unless you can give Objective Sources and facts your wrong.

Solo did cost more than TROS because it was filmed twice.


Also the Last Jedi did not cost 317 Million.
 
and they spend around 66 percent on marketing plus you need to add another 360 million dollars that totals around 960 million dollars plus taxes and paying people the moive paying itself the cast the crew and everything else involved in something of that scale. 276 million plus 138 is 414 million plus 276 is around 690 million dollars if we go by the 50 percent and not the 66 ercent. If we go by wikipedia numbers like your and they are doing we get 275 million ish dollars.. If we add at least 60-75 million dollars for the movie because. 275 million is massively too generous of number for the final moive in the skywalker saga.
 
> 275 million is massively too generous of number for the final moive in the skywalker saga.

why? Rise of Skywalker also had way less marketing than even Rogue One.

it's Obvious they were not that confident in the film to give it the same treatment as Avengers.
 
You have to consider the fring of the ogional director the rehearing of JJ Abrams all the brand new stuff that have to be hired thier travel and pay. The massive post production production and pre production development hell they film went though much like Rouge One and Solo a Star Wars Stroy. The increase in marketing form that movie the studio punt it though. The new wtiers producers and everything else. They rate using the complaety unrealistic insensible and illogical Disney numbers. of 275 million dollars plus 50 percent market witcgh would get you closer to 325 million dollars. in net profit. Witch I am not using those numbers because it would have to costed less the both a spinoff movie that bombed and the middle movie of the 3. And I do not think it is remotely possible by any means to have that happened
 
> The increase in marketing form that movie the studio punt it though

The lowered the marketing for TROS

> Witch I am not using those numbers because it would have to costed less the both a spinoff movie that bombed and the middle movie of the 3

Every single star wars film ever has costed less than Solo. Solo is the most expensive star wars film ever because it was reshot from the ground up.

> And I do not think it is remotely possible by any means to have that happened

then you know very little about box office.


your allowed to think what you want even if it's wrong but dont act like it's a fact without concrete proof.
 
the less marketing for Rouge one and Solo was failed twice I can buy that. Wikipedia says the last jedi coasted 315 million dollars. No they have not those numbers ar almosy always going to be wrong because the real costs are kept under wraps . Wikipedia says 200-317 million dollars. That 117 million dollars diffentand I highly doubt very much so it costs less than the force awakens even though it is a longer movie the Last point you give I can buy that too . I am not acting the father earther. Wikipedia says 200-317 million dollars that is a massive gap of over 100 million dollars. Maybe the 275 million is right. I am not using Pusdo logic. The Flat Earth people are few and far bwtween. No solo did not lost only 74 million dollars., take the 300 million production cost of that moive 275-300 million production cost andd 50 percent so 450million and than add another 275-300 million. That 74 million number is not objecitve and is form Wikipedia of all places.
 
Mean that both the Lasyt Jedi and Rise of Skywalker costed at least 25 million dollar less that the spinoff movie. I I do not behilve and both of those movies were mainline star wars mives. Disney has no ******* money right now. Witch also listed 275 million for the rise of skywalker even though that movie went thout pre production production and post production hell for months. Yeah the rise of skywalker might just be the last ******* Starwars movie we might see because the company has almost no ******* money right now. Disney is not doing very well in the stock market right now at all and lost a good portion of its total worth of a company.
 
> Wikipedia says 200-317 million dollars

it was estimation made before the Financials stuff came out.

> No they have not those numbers ar almosy always going to be wrong because the real costs are kept under wraps

there's an entire division in the film industry where all studios need to apply forms of their production costs that get evaluated as to ensure companies dont steal money and not pay their workers, these numbers are where these analysis get it from, there's a reason why this is a Industry and not just a hobby.

> No solo did not lost only 74 million dollars., take the 300 million production cost of that moive 275-300 million production cost andd 50 percent so 450million and than add another 275-300 million. That 74 million number is not objecitve and is form Wikipedia of all places.

74 Million comes from the analyses, provide me Objective factual proof where it lost more money.
 
I am goign with the 317 million number because thier is no way it barely costed more than Rouge one and costed a whopping 100-75 million dollars less than solo did. I know that movie was filmed twice. But that rise of skywalker had such massive pre production productions dn post production hell that can not because for the rise of skywalker . And could not have been the cast for the last Jedi. 200 million plus 50 percxent is 300 million plus another 200 million for marketing is 500 milliuon dollars it did notr make 775 million dollars in profits tyou anbd shave at elast 225 million off that number at the very least. it certainly did not ocst less than the Force Awakens witch costed around 250 million dollars to make and was like 18 minutes shorter as well
 
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