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(Staff Needed) Ninjagos Tiering 2.5

Minaaaa

Minaaaa

Any/All
746
219
Another continuation of this thread due to it again getting long.

Star Tiering
Agree: @JJSliderman, @Scumbag_Steve, @GarrixianXD, @Mr. Bambu (agrees with Low 4-C),

Neutral: @Overlord_Darkness, @Robespierre_Isidore (Says the feat is fine)

Disagree: @Lloydblitzed, @TheOrangeGuy09, @ByArrow, @CurrySenpai
Mergequakes
Agree: @Overlord_Darkness, @JJSliderman (Downgrade to 3-A), @Robespierre_Isidore, @GarrixianXD, @Mr. Bambu

Neutral: @Scumbag_Steve

Disagree: @Lloydblitzed, @TheOrangeGuy09, @ByArrow, @DarkDragonMedeus, @CurrySenpai
Misc
Agree: @Overlord_Darkness, @JJSliderman (Agree with possibly), @Scumbag_Steve (Agree with Oni not being 2-C), @Robespierre_Isidore (Agree with Oni not being 2-C), @Mr. Bambu

Neutral:

Disagree: @Lloydblitzed, @TheOrangeGuy09, @ByArrow, @DarkDragonMedeus, @CurrySenpai

Main points
for the star feat, i still disagree with anyone scaling to it (or scale to a lower tier) for the reasons i pointed out in both threads and still agree with it being an outlier, due to it being the only feat in the series like this. Whose level of power equivalent to the feat hasnt been matched or surpassed since

for garmadon scaling to the oni, i still disagree with. Given that from Wu's statment, episode descriptions, guidebooks, and the trailer for March of the Oni, we can confirm the oni arent actually destroying universes or anything at all. Its just a simple invasion.

For mergequakes, i still disagree with. The current justification on their profiles is that mergequakes can destroy the universe. Which is true, but not for single ones which the ninja are always shown closing, but rather multiple of them happening at once

Counter points
  • GWs ALONE fully scale to 4-C, which is all explained in THIS BLOG
  • Mergequakes are 2-C for the reasonning explained by Lloydblitzed right above Garrixan's 2nd comment in this CRT
  • Onis fully scale to Tier 2 as they are stated to be capable of destroying a Realm, which is an entire Space Time continuum, and also just because we don't know how they destroy it specifically doesn't mean the feat is unquantifiable. And also "Destroying Realms is straight up statement as it goes. Can’t see how it means ruling over it. Unless it is specified that erasing life is meant and NOT the Realms, then it is assumed that Onis will destroy all of the Realms. This is how this wiki works. When you have statement “I can destroy universes” and both narrative and logics support it, then you do NOT assume that they are just destroying the life. You assume that they destroy universes."

Hopefully, we can finally get a conclusion to these points without going on more long threads. Another reason i made this thread to put out three options for those who agree with the star feat tiering being downgraded.

Option 1: The feat gets removed and most of the verse become 6-A


Option 2: The verse becomes At least 6-A, possibly Low 4-C


Option 3: The verse becomes Low 4-C
 
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I will repost this specific previous argument:

Minaaaa said:
No... it means having two additional arms makes you stronger than someone with only two arms.
Click to expand...
There's nothing suggesting that, and the statements I just sent goes against that logic. Also there's those statements saying Lloyd is 120% stronger then single ninja (and 20% stronger then all of them reunited) which was made at the time of S7 and S6, which would bring us to the same conclusion as (120% of 68.033 Quettatons) + 68.033 = 149,6726 Quettatons which is above the baseline of 4-C. And using the 20% statement, we'd need to multiply 68.033 Quettatons by 5 as we are talking about all the other Ninjas togheter, and then add 20% of that, which gives: ( (68.033 x 5) x 20%) + 68.033 = 408,198 Quettatons which levels him higher into 4-C
Minaaaa said:
This wouldn't even change their rating and theyd still be low 4-c.
Click to expand...
They are Low 4-C bc we divide the baseline of 4-C (136.066 quettaton) in half, which gives us 68.033 Quettatons. Multiply this value by 2 and u get 136.066 Quettatons again, which is 4-C. No one scales to the baseline of Low 4-C (7.505 quettatons) in the verse

And Shatterspin multiplier will place the Ninjas and Cinder at 4-C as well anyways, Current Garmadon and Mogra still keeps their 4-B as well,
 
None of this would make them 4-C. As i said, ratings will be handled in another thread if accepted
 
Copy pasting the Mergequake Argument from the other thread for the mods:

Ok so... (Time for a yapfest)....here's a map of how the Multiverse (more like the entire cosmo) looks like rn:


Link if u can't see media from VSBW: Here
So, The whole plot of the Ninjago: Dragons Rising Season 1 is about Ninjas trying to stop the Realms to occupy the same space, or, simply, merge, which the narrative supports. Now back to explanation
We know by default the Ninjago Realm as a whole was indeed affected by the Merge, but not in the same way as the other Realms. We do know however:
However, its implied multiple times that the Monsters we saw coming out from the action of 2 Realms trying to merge in DR S1 EP 5 came from a DIFFERENT DIMENSION. This would indicate that those monster are from a Realm's Space-Time seperate from the Merged Realm, a space-time who was part of the Realms (as remember Mergequakes only affects the Realms).

We also see in the sky only 2 Moons, the one from Ninjago and another one from the Wyldness (which was shown many times btw). However, this is where we can see why the other space-times didn't fully Merge. Many of the other Realms have shown to have their own Celestial Bodies before the Merge:

However, after the Merge, we only see 1 Sun and 2 Moons around the skies of the Merged Realms. This imply that only some specific locations from each of the OTHER Realms were actually affected by Merge, which makes perfect sense using the dimension scans shown earlier (Fun fact: the term "Dimension" was also used to describe the Ninjago Realm, who is a space-time continuum). This is represented by the blue bubbles outside of the Merged Realm in the map

Now, we got the Space Bubbles from within the Ethereal Divide which was stated to be a Realm which would indicate its a space-time of its own (As the term "Realm" is gerenally associated with space-time continuum [like with the Ninjago Realm] ). This is what was said about Space Bubbles in DR S1 EP 17:

Prentis: There! We've ported them off to wake up in the lands formerly known as the Cursed Realm, which is where they're originally from. Probably.

Arin: Excuse me? What is this place?

Prentis: Department of Reassignment. We deal with interstitial space bubbles.

Arin: Space bubbles?

Prentis: A form of stasis. During the Merge, some people were shuffled into pockets of the Nothing Space between what used to be the realms.

Arin: And you find these people?

Prentis: Not on purpose. But when teleporting, Administration Agents sometimes bump into pockets of these Nothing Space Merge refugees. It becomes our department's job to send them back where they originally came from.

Arin: How do you know where they came from?

Prentis: Well, best guesses. It's all fine, probably. We keep records. (He sends Awakened Warriors through the portal.) Off to Cloud Kingdom, which is probably, almost definitely, their home. Okay, that finishes up that bubble.
Click to expand...

This basically tells us the ED in fact significally affected by the Merge, as multiple MergeQuakes (at the time) were affecting the ED and ended up sending sum people inside, and at the same time the entire Ninjago Realm was being affected by that event. This also means the Merge as affected at least 2 space-time continuums, 1 being Ninjago, and the other one being the ED. This is further backed up by a statement confirming Ninjago was affected. And we also have this statement saying the Merged synced up time, which means we can argue it affected even the Realms, but didn't necesserally merged all the space-time, as syncing time just implies their flow of time didn't merge, but started to flow at the same pace

The MergeQuakes would thus occur for the parts of the other Realms who haven't merge yet, especially their space-times and Celestial Bodies, to go on and merge with Ninjago. This would lead us to a 2-C ranking for the MergeQuakes, Zane statements about the tipping point won't matter here, because this is linked to a WHOLE DIFFERENT event called the MergeQuake Storm, which involves a annahilation of the Realms. Also, that huge jump in power is explaned by the Ninjas regaining TP before DR which massively upscales their stats


I'll add more to it if I find something I've missed
 
Lloydblitzed said:
However, its implied multiple times that the Monsters we saw coming out from the action of 2 Realms trying to merge in DR S1 EP 5 came from a DIFFERENT DIMENSION. This would indicate that those monster are from a Realm's Space-Time seperate from the Merged Realm, a space-time who was part of the Realms (as remember Mergequakes only affects the Realms).
Click to expand...
This doesn't imply they come from a realm's space-time, just that they are beings from another dimension. Tier 2 relies on the fact that the realm's space-time was affected. if they weren't the initial Merge isnt even tier 2. Id also be wary of using this a canon information considered the context of the texts.

Lloydblitzed said:
We also see in the sky only 2 Moons, the one from Ninjago and another one from the Wyldness (which was shown many times btw). However, this is where we can see why the other space-times didn't fully Merge. Many of the other Realms have shown to have their own Celestial Bodies before the Merge:

However, after the Merge, we only see 1 Sun and 2 Moons around the skies of the Merged Realms. This imply that only some specific locations from each of the OTHER Realms were actually affected by Merge, which makes perfect sense using the dimension scans shown earlier (Fun fact: the term "Dimension" was also used to describe the Ninjago Realm, who is a space-time continuum). This is represented by the blue bubbles outside of the Merged Realm in the map
Click to expand...
I frankly dont get this point. Just because they dont show those things in the realm doesnt mean they didnt merge together.

Lloydblitzed said:
Now, we got the Space Bubbles from within the Ethereal Divide which was stated to be a Realm which would indicate its a space-time of its own (As the term "Realm" is gerenally associated with space-time continuum [like with the Ninjago Realm] ). This is what was said about Space Bubbles in DR S1 EP 17:

This basically tells us the ED in fact significally affected by the Merge, as multiple MergeQuakes (at the time) were affecting the ED and ended up sending sum people inside, and at the same time the entire Ninjago Realm was being affected by that event. This also means the Merge as affected at least 2 space-time continuums, 1 being Ninjago, and the other one being the ED. This is further backed up by a statement confirming Ninjago was affected. And we also have this statement saying the Merged synced up time, which means we can argue it affected even the Realms, but didn't necesserally merged all the space-time, as syncing time just implies their flow of time didn't merge, but started to flow at the same pace
Click to expand...
I dont get how this is saying the ED was affected. The conversation just says some people were sent into spaces where the realms used to be (Intersitial meaning something between things). I dont get how this means the ED was affected.
 
Minaaaa said:
I frankly dont get this point. Just because they dont show those things in the realm doesnt mean they didnt merge together.
Click to expand...
My point still stands. Even the Cloud Kingdom had sum of its land completly missing. They purposly showed us the only 2 Moons that merged in the sky after the Merge
Minaaaa said:
This doesn't imply they come from a realm's space-time, just that they are beings from another dimension.
Click to expand...
Knowing Mergequakes are litterally 2 Realms trying to merge, that other dimension is def referring to a Realm
Minaaaa said:
Tier 2 relies on the fact that the realm's space-time was affected.
Click to expand...
Their Time synced up, meaning they started flowing at the same pace, yet are still seperate, so anyways u can argue space-times were affected
Minaaaa said:
if they weren't the initial Merge isnt even tier 2.
Click to expand...
Aftershooks can be stronger then the original event
Minaaaa said:
Id also be wary of using this a canon information considered the context of the texts.
Click to expand...
The definition of a Mergequake further supports these scans
Minaaaa said:
dont get how this is saying the ED was affected. The conversation just says some people were sent into spaces where the realms used to be (Intersitial meaning something between things). I dont get how this means the ED was affected.
Click to expand...
Nvm the ED part
 
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I think this just hinges on the fact of taking Lloyd's two realms statement literally. If the realms spaces didnt merge together, than ninjago merged with some random thing. We know it cant be the ED because its vastly bigger than ninjago and surrounds it.
 
Minaaaa said:
I think this just hinges on the fact of taking Lloyd's two realms statement literally. If the realms spaces didnt merge together, than ninjago merged with some random thing. We know it cant be the ED because its vastly bigger than ninjago and surrounds it.
Click to expand...
The argument wasn't that the whole spaces didn't merge, but that only a part of it didn't. Also, as I said before, nvm the ED part, I've found better arguments
 
Minaaaa said:
I think this just hinges on the fact of taking Lloyd's two realms statement literally. If the realms spaces didnt merge together, than ninjago merged with some random thing. We know it cant be the ED because its vastly bigger than ninjago and surrounds it.
Click to expand...
Realms can refer to two things since DR: space-times and the former focal points of these space-times.
 
Lloydblitzed said:
The argument wasn't that the whole spaces didn't merge, but that only a part of it didn't.
Click to expand...
Your arugument was that locations from the other realms merged

However, after the Merge, we only see 1 Sun and 2 Moons around the skies of the Merged Realms. This imply that only some specific locations from each of the OTHER Realms were actually affected by Merge, which makes perfect sense using the dimension scans shown earlier (Fun fact: the term "Dimension" was also used to describe the Ninjago Realm, who is a space-time continuum). This is represented by the blue bubbles outside of the Merged Realm in the map
Click to expand...
Some parts not being there can be explained that they were sent into the nothing space, like other people were. But this more leans into things surrounding the god tier's tier 2 rating which will be in another thread, so ill let others decide if the mergequakes are tier 2
 
Im saying, saying only locations were affected by the merge wouldnt make sense and would contradict your guy's on position on the verse's tiering. If only the locations were affected, then the merge isnt even tier 2 and would just have tier 2 range.
 
Minaaaa said:
Im saying, saying only locations were affected by the merge wouldnt make sense and would contradict your guy's on position on the verse's tiering. If only the locations were affected, then the merge isnt even tier 2 and would just have tier 2 range.
Click to expand...
No, because again, Doc confirmed their time synced up, so the feat is indeed tier 2
 
Why would their times sync up with ninjago? if their space-times werent affected and only locations were? you see how this doesnt make sense. It makes way more sense that their space-times merged with ninjagos, syncing up time for those realms where it passed differently.
 
Minaaaa said:
Im saying, saying only locations were affected by the merge wouldnt make sense and would contradict your guy's on position on the verse's tiering. If only the locations were affected, then the merge isnt even tier 2 and would just have tier 2 range.
Click to expand...
Merge is the cause of mergequakes. It also synced up time in the Realms.
Minaaaa said:
Why would their times sync up with ninjago? if their space-times werent affected and only locations were?
Click to expand...
Space-times are effected, but not merged.
Minaaaa said:
you see how this doesnt make sense. It makes way more sense that their space-times merged with ninjagos, syncing up time for those realms where it passed differently.
Click to expand...
Appeal to emotion.
 
Minaaaa said:
Why would their times sync up with ninjago? if their space-times werent affected and only locations were? you see how this doesnt make sense. It makes way more sense that their space-times merged with ninjagos, syncing up time for those realms where it passed differently.
Click to expand...
Sync up time implies it didn't merge. Just like multiple timelines have their time synced up (flowing at the same pace) but aren't part of the same universe/aren't merged
 
TheOrangeGuy09 said:
He does not explicitly say that these two merged. He just says vague "all the Realms". How can non-existant space-times merge with anything? I know you are trying to downgrade the verse here, but please at least do make sense.
Click to expand...
Then that means djinjago's space-time wasn't destroyed, only its land. Hell its even backed up by arrakore saying he went back to djinjago
 
Minaaaa said:
Then that means djinjago's space-time wasn't destroyed, only its land. Hell its even backed up by arrakore saying he went back to djinjago
Click to expand...
And he said there's litterally nothing left except what was in the bottle. The Realm is a whole void rn. I don't understand how returning to a destroyed Universe means it wasn't destroyed
 
Minaaaa said:
Then that means djinjago's space-time wasn't destroyed, only its land.
Click to expand...
Head canon + a massive strawman out of Doc’s statement. Not only that, but now you are saying Balance only affects the lands too?
Minaaaa said:
Hell its even backed up by arrakore saying he went back to djinjago
Click to expand...
What… you do know you can return to what “was” Djinjago, right? Ever heard of such a concept called “void”? Or should I elaborate on that for someone like you?
Minaaaa said:
Nothing left of the land
Click to expand...
Are you going to take every mention of “nothing will be left behind” as only lands? Genuinely? First Onis, now this. All that to downgrade the verse. I now remember why I unfollowed the previous part of these CRTs.
 
Saying the "realms space-time didn't merge with ninjago" directly contradicts the "mergequakes are where two realms share the same area" point. If point A is true, then ninjago is sharing a space with... something.

I already agree with the initial merge being 2-C (something that was never contested to begin with), the mergeQUAKES arent tier 2 for the reasons in the previous threads
 
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