GodlyCharmander
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Hey, uh, since you're a moderator and participating on Deltarune-related threads, can matches with "The Fun Gang vs a character" be added to their profiles?
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((SPOILERS)) Deltarune Chapter 2 Upgrades/Additions
- Thread starter ShockingPsychic
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Alright, done.
Okay, so, I'm pending a source for this claim, but according to Jaften, large metal statues are often hollow, which means that the Berdly statue feat needs to be recalced yet again. Assuming 90% hollowness (which seems to be the standard assumption), the statue would end up weighing 808 kg, which... is extremely consistent with the arcade machine feat's 798 kg result, and also works in favor of the narrative since the Swatchlings could carry the statue with ease, but struggle to lift Rouxls' petrified body. This would make Class 1 Lifting Strength very consistent if it's true (two feats in that range + another scene defining a limit to their LS), which I don't doubt it is, but it's best to get a citation just to be sure.
Lou_change
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If I recall for some reason battles with teams that aren't one profile can only be added if the team is only a duo.
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no complaints from me
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Update: Jaften linked this article mentioning hollow statues at least twice (fair warning, it's Renaissance art so expect some nudity). He also provided visual evidence in the form of a real bronze statue that is hollow:
While I'm still not sure exactly where 90% hollowness comes from, it does make sense because 1) statues would be very hard to carry around IRL if they were even close to being solid, 2) the statue pictured above does seem to be almost completely empty on the inside, and 3) it makes the Berdly statue stuff consistent with other showings like the arcade machine feat. Also, making solid statues would just be a waste of metal.
Imaginym also has something to say, it seems, so he is welcome to add to this if he would like.
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I discussed with Jaften a bit, on Discord. I also, independently, Googled a little.
Bronze sculpture - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
While stone statues are usually solid, it's because they're made from stones. Statues made from metal seem to often end up hollow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost-wax_casting#Process
This article details the process nicely. It also notes:
"Casts can be made of the wax model itself, the direct method, or of a wax copy of a model that need not be of wax, the indirect method. These are the steps for the indirect process (the direct method starts at step 7):"
It's a 12 step process that isn't easy to summarize. (Though it involves a lot of wax melting.)
This page provides a very simple explanation: https://historylink101.com/2/greece3/bronze-statue.htm
If it were the hammering method, that'd use a flat piece, which would require lots of material. The casting method would also need lots of material, albeit, molten. The lost-wax method is used for high-detail statues, & this is usually used to produce hollow statues.
Typically, with lost-wax methods, thicker wax models are more expensive because the metal (Bronze or gold or such.) what will replace the wax, so it's usually hollowed out.
I'm not sure I perfectly understand the process, but I could Berdly's statue used such a method, considering it... ugh... details his nipples. (Though, given the scale of the statue, they may be large enough that they're not so small as to be an easily messed up detail.)
Pardon the delay & any bother, please, all.
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Shouldn't Jevil have Supersonic speed as well?
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GodlyCharmander
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The first line proves nothing, he consider his life a game. The second point, however, seems even less valid.
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The shadow crystal shows the person using it that their world is fake
GodlyCharmander
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That's only related to the light-dark world relationship. 4th wall awareness would be they noticing they're in a game altogether
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Alright nvm then. I was also wondering if the way the gameplay works in deltarune is that if you are on the team with a soul (kris), then your attacks automatically hit if you aim well, because suzie joins lancers team for a bit and her attacks dont automatically hit you and do way less damage, so I wonder if the reason is because on your team, the attacks automatically hit due to your soul
GodlyCharmander
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The Fun Gang has more durability (usually) than some monsters
GodlyCharmander
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If you’re saying Jevil is stronger than Spamton, then why doesn’t he have “possibly Class 10” in lifting strength?
GodlyCharmander
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Because Spamton doesn't have that either, lol.
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Except you appear to be scaling him to Spamton NEO, not regular Spamton. Hell, he still has the Class 1 LS intact.
GodlyCharmander
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Not really, he is considerably stronger than Base Spamton and has stats comparable to Tasque Manager. We don't know how he stacks up against NEO, or Berdly.
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Isn't he spamton's superior? besides base spamton has supersonic speed which Jevil is supposedly superior to.
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Jevil should be at least somewhat superior to base Spamton, since Spamton apparently wanted to surpass him (If Jevil IS "that clown around town"), & as Spamton Neo, he may have done so, but his dissatisfaction makes it questionable how much Spamton Neo surpassed Jevil by, if at all.
GodlyCharmander
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Stronger /=/ Faster
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If spamton was able to speed blitz Jevil, why would he need NEO to surpass jevil?
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Another issue is Jevil claims there are "Yet stronger, yet faster". If Jevil was "around" Spamton enough for Spamton to know of him, how are we sure Jevil wasn't saying Spamton is stronger &/or faster?
& we don't know in what regard Spamton wanted to surpass Jevil. Was it Power? Speed? Toughness?
I'd dare say that for all we know, it could be popularity/sucess, since Spamton was a failing salesman, & for him, part of his success was moving into his own room in the Queen's Mansion (Though he didn't seem to care about the room once he got it, because at that point he seemed to get obsessed with his calls.) while Jevil was the official... court magician or jester, IIRC?
Still, to a failing salesman, being a servant/employee to actual royalty might be enviable.
Unsure.
& we don't know in what regard Spamton wanted to surpass Jevil. Was it Power? Speed? Toughness?
I'd dare say that for all we know, it could be popularity/sucess, since Spamton was a failing salesman, & for him, part of his success was moving into his own room in the Queen's Mansion (Though he didn't seem to care about the room once he got it, because at that point he seemed to get obsessed with his calls.) while Jevil was the official... court magician or jester, IIRC?
Still, to a failing salesman, being a servant/employee to actual royalty might be enviable.
Unsure.
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I wouldn't be able to answer the faster part for sure but he would be stronger in the sense that he could be used as a weapon to damage chapter 2 characters and for the fact his ATK stat (10) are either equal or superior to many of the chapter 2 mid high tiers aside from werewerewire. so...he would be weaker than queen but comparable to many chapter 2 characters.
GodlyCharmander
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There is no point in being faster (speed blitz is an overstatement) if you're weaker, has less abilities, and lacks the means tank anything Jevil throws at ya,
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The difference between Jevil's listed speed and Spamton's is totally enough for a blitz lol, nevermind that they're still clearly relative in stats considering Spamton can still harm people who tank shit from Jevil.
If we don't know and other things lead us to assume it wasn't Spamton, it wasn't Spamton
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But isn't Jevil's statement worded like it can refer to multiple characters, since it's about opponents they'll meet in the future?
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well yes
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Exactly, so it could very well not be referring to Spamton at all
GodlyCharmander
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We need to nerf Spamton to Subsonic then? Because if Jevil is Supersonic, then Chapter 1 is Supersonic
GodlyCharmander
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We run in a bit of a pickle, y'know? Circular scaling sucks
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Is there any reason this cannot be assumed?
GodlyCharmander
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The Supersonic feat was performed by a much stronger Kris in the end of the chapter against Ch 2's secret boss, while Ch 1 best speed feat was performed by Susie, being barely Subsonic. Mach 0.25 to Mach 1.7 is quite the jump.
Plus, we shouldn't scale Chapter 1 Characters to Chapter 2 Feats, period. Scaling game characters to a sequel is not recommended whatsoever.
Lou_change
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We don't know the power change from level ups also are suggesting that seriously because we do that all the time with the majority of series. Mario(first games were small building if you scale form cranky Kong I believe)
Pokemon(legendaries are tier 3 because gen 7 before they were tier 6 to 5 the list goes on. I am not saying I disagree with chapter one not scaling to chapter two but that requires a better argument
GodlyCharmander
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Yes, but both these have no linear progression for said characters. A stronger Kris performed a better feat, the weaker version of them should not scale.
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y'ever heard of backscaling?
It's a context thing dude. If a ch 2 character explicitly says he's weaker than a ch 1 one, you can't really ignore it
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I don't think Spamton explicitly said anything. He said he wanted to surpass that clown around town, which could mean at least four different things.
Lou_change
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I suppose but we don't know the gap if I am not mistaken it's around what a 10 point stat increase for most. We don't know if defense and attack scale linearly but I believe that is the common assumption.
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true, idk then
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