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Space-Time Manipulation For All Pokemon

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What the title says. I know most Pokemon here already have space manip via Dynamax being a thing, but this is something different that just occurred to me recently, so i'll just get straight to the point.

Yesterday some friends and I were re-watching The Rise of Darkrai because "muh-nostalgia" and I noticed something that I dont believe has been brought up before here. Pokemon generally seem capable of, on a very minor scale at least, effecting space-time. And this is present not only in the Darkrai movie, but also earlier in the anime series, the games and is further supported by what the Giratina movie gives us. I'll go through this one by one.

Evidence 1: Shedninja and Ninjask


This first one is actually already acknowledged by us, so that gives this a good start. In the episode involving Togepi and the Mirage Kingdom, Shedninja and a pair of Ninjask team up their attacks to break through the fabric of space-time into the Togepi dimension, as well as making parts of the landscape inside the dimension vanish. Shown here in this clip:



Evidence 2: Buneary and Buisel


This next bit of evidence comes from The Rise of Darkrai. Ash, Dawn and their pokemon were hurrying up the Space-Time tower in Alamos Town to play Oracion so it would pacify Dialga and Palkia to stop their fighting. Along the way, the stairs within the tower began to be erased like the rest of the town. Dawn had her Buneary and Buisel join a combo of Ice Beam + Water Gun so that the erased stairs would freeze. Doing this stopped the erasure of the stairs.



Evidence 3: Wild Pokemon Assisting


This is also from the Darkrai Movie. As Alamos Town continues to vanish as a collateral effect of Dialga and Palkia's clash, wild groups of Pokemon (or random trainers pokemon) join their attacks together to momentarily halt the erasure process of Alamos Town.



Evidence 4: Dusknoir Destroying a Portal


For this instance, I can’t post a clip of it to show it here. But I do remember the episode name so that it can be found.

It’s during the episode “Ghoul Daze” from the Diamond & Pearl series. A ghost girl was trying to lead Ash and his friends into the spirit world and to save them, Dusknoir blasted her into the portal that leads to the spirit world and destroyed it.

Evidence 5: Tiritoga and The Gate of Time


This instance is from the nightmare of a season we call Black and White..

In the 27-28th episodes of black and white rival destinies, there exists a space-time distortion within Twist Mountain, called The Gate of Time, that’s makes a pathway that extends into the prehistoric era in the past where fossil Pokémon like Tiritoga and Archeops live.

Team Rocket planned to use The Gate of Time to go into the past, but in order to do that, they needed to stabilize the gate as it’s a space-time distortion that changes constantly.

They confirmed that Tiritoga’s own life energy can stabilize the distortion.

Evidence 6: Trick Room


From what I recall, we here consider Trick Room to be low level pocket dimension creation. Which means this would also help out here.

In this clip, against the Fairy Type Gym in X/Y, Ash’s Hawlucha outright smashes through Trick Room and destroys the whole thing.



Evidence 7: Infinity Energy and the Dimensional Shifter


This here is a quick point I remembered from the ORAS games.

Infinity Energy is the life force from Pokémon that was going to be used to power the Dimensional Shifter so it could send Grand Meteor Delta to another dimension.

Evidence 8: Gastly creating a spatial warp


What the title says. In USUM, Gastly creates a spatial warp in the Pokémon Training School.

Evidence 9: Baltoys Rotation


This one I don’t have a clip or scan of on me, this was pointed out in the reply section.

Sometime in the Advanced series for Hoenn, Baltoys Rotation was used by an ancient civilization as a power source for time travel.

Evidence 10: Future Sight Warps Space-Time (?)


This clip is from Ash fighting Olympia in X/Y. Whenever her Meowstic Duo use Future Sight, we see them cause several warping effects that indicates its warping space-time and/or going through some kind of portal.

Evidence 11: The Reverse/Distortion World


Mentioned this earlier. While nothing is actually shown like the above examples, this bit here is arguably the most important evidence out of everything here because of the Reverse World's purpose in the verse.

As explained by Newton, whenever an imbalance occurs in the outside world, the Reverse World acts as a balancer so that the balance between time and space is maintained. Anytime an imbalance occurs, a black toxic cloud is formed as a bi-product of space-time being repaired.



Now a potential counter argument to this, one that I might have seen before regarding this, is that the distortion world rebalancing time and space is only done when Dialga and Palkia shenanegans occur specifically. But this is wrong.

For one, Newton never refers to the Creation Trio and what they do when talking about this. He says when imbalances occur in the world, which would mean he's talking about any general imbalance and not specifically the Creation Trios. While Dialga and Palkia's battle in Alamos Town greatly contributed to this phenomena happening, to the point where the distortion world became polluted by large quantities of these toxic clouds appearing, they are not the sole cause of it happening in the first place.

In addition to this, we clearly see these toxic clouds form, even when the creation trio aren't fighting each other or doing their own space-time nonsense. This clip shows such an instance after Piplup nearly suffocates from being near one and another random toxic cloud appears out of nowhere. It goes without saying here, but the Giratina movie takes place quite a while after Dialga and Palkia's battle, which clearly indicates that they have nothing to do with this happening normally. Meaning, there are things that happen outside the Creation Trio that still cause space-time imbalances and needs the distortion world to repair them. Meaning, lesser-scale space-time nonsense would be at work and pokemon doing that would fall under this.

Tl;Dr:


From what i've found, all Pokemon should have minor space-time manipulation on some scale. Shedninja and Ninjask forcefully breaking through space-time fabrics to effect stuff in another dimension, Dawn's Buneary and Buisel stopping a small patch of space-time erasure with their attacks, random pokemon minorly halting the erasure of Alamos Town with their attacks, Dusknoir destroying a portal, Tiritoga stabilizing and destroying a space-time distortion that connects the past and present together, Baltoys Rotation being used to power time travel, Ash’s Hawlucha outright destroying Trick Room, Meowstic warping space-time with Future Sight, Pokémon’s Infinity Energy being used to power the Dimensional Shifter, Gastly causing a spatial loop and the Distortion World stopping generally anything, even things outside the Creation Trio's actions, from imbalancing space-time would suggest this is legit.
 
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Oh yeah, regarding this I'm neutral for now. The stuff seems like a possibility at least, but I'm not sure if giving powers out of showings that just hint it at best are to be considered as reliable for all species.
 
I'm neutral as well. While this could possibly be them affecting time-space, there are also alternative explanations to, at the very least, the feats from The Rise of Darkrai.

For the first one, consider that they didn't stop the erasure of the stairs, but rather created a new set of stairs made of ice. Pokemon have been shown to create complex structures made of ice before, and with Buizel supplying water for Buneary's ice beam, I can see that being what happened, especially since you still see erasure taking place off to the side.

For the second one, as you said, they didn't absolutely halt it, but rather slowed the erasure down. That's because with their attacks, they supplied extra matter and energy around the border of the town to be erased, rather than them directly influencing time and space.

The thing with Shedinja and the Distortion World, however, is rather difficult to disprove in such a manner, which is why I have a neutral stance on this.
 
For the first one, consider that they didn't stop the erasure of the stairs, but rather created a new set of stairs made of ice. Pokemon have been shown to create complex structures made of ice before, and with Buizel supplying water for Buneary's ice beam, I can see that being what happened, especially since you still see erasure taking place off to the side.
I can see where your coming from on this one, but wouldnt the ice have been caught up in the erasure and been erased too?
For the second one, as you said, they didn't absolutely halt it, but rather slowed the erasure down. That's because with their attacks, they supplied extra matter and energy around the border of the town to be erased, rather than them directly influencing time and space.
See above. Plus for this one, some of the wild pokemon who assisted didnt use ice attacks to create more additional matter but some blasted them with electric moves.
 
Neutral

Wouldn't some feats from the 3rd Pokemon Movie with the Unknown make for some supporting evidence or no?
 
Would it be Pikachu and Charizard attacking them?
Maybe. I haven't watched it years so I could completely forget about it's events so I may have another fresh experience with the movie.

I believe there were Pokemon that blocked the advancement of the Unknown's distortion as well, if I remember. Only for a short time, tho.
 
You're claiming that something done by a few pokemon should scale to all pokemon...

Just list it for the pokemon that have displayed those abilities. Why would it scale to all of them?
 
You're claiming that something done by a few pokemon should scale to all pokemon...

Just list it for the pokemon that have displayed those abilities. Why would it scale to all of them?
I believe because there is nothing particularly special about the pokémon that do, and considering that basically all wild pokémon in the darkrai movie contributed to the fact, it seems that it is a common thing for all pokémon.
 
Neutral

Wouldn't some feats from the 3rd Pokemon Movie with the Unknown make for some supporting evidence or no?
This is also pretty interesting.

I never gave two thoughts about this before, but it seems relatively consistent? Though can understand if people don't buy it.
 
I can see where your coming from on this one, but wouldnt the ice have been caught up in the erasure and been erased too?
For that, I turn to the speed of the erasure in progress. Unlike the bit at the edge of Alamos Town, this was degrading very slowly, taking well over a minute to dissolve before Buneary and Buizel used their attacks. I believe it was more than enough time to create a new set of stairs and climb it before it started to erase itself again.
See above. Plus for this one, some of the wild pokemon who assisted didnt use ice attacks to create more additional matter but some blasted them with electric moves.
See, this is why I specified both matter and energy. Because, as you know, electricity is energy, and it's very likely that the introduction of the high-energy attack likely caused the spatial erasure to slow down so it can erase it all, much like it would have to slow for the extra matter from the other attacks. That's my perception of it, anyway.
 
Sure, I agree with Kukui, it's obviously not like they're manipulating Space-Time on an openly offensive level.

I disagree with it "only applying to the Pokemon shown" because this isn't like some inherent ability to those Pokemon like Gardevoir making Blackholes or Gothatel being able to see a Trainer's entire future.

This seems entirely disconnected from Pokemon species, so I agree with Kuwui.
 
Just list it for the pokemon that have displayed those abilities. Why would it scale to all of them?
Because not only is it being done by a group of several random Pokémon, who don’t give the implication that it would only go for them,

But the evidence suggests it would apply for all Pokémon. At least the bit about the Distortion World does
 
I disagree for Darkrai part, it would be like giving resistance to EE to every pkmn not being erased after being in contact with this despite Darkrai litteraly dying this way.

Neutral on the others.
 
False Equivalance.

Alamos Towns erasure never directly made contact with any of the towns Pokémon aside from Darkrai, and if anything, it’s implied that they were killed by it too given what Ash said to Palkia.

Here it’s more explicit and blatant to give them this because of them being directly shown to effect it on some scale.
 
Croagunk litteraly punched an energy sphere which was shown to also have the erasure effect, with some others Pokemon doing the same.
 
The part which weren't countered were shown to erase what they hit.

Also erasure comes from basically any of their attacks.
 
Yes but in those cases they were stopping attacks with an eraser effect, not an erasure, and they are obvious outliers unless a random Azumaril or Shinx are 2-B to you.
 
They're outlier yeah, and I think the Darkrai movies scene used in the OP should be treated as the same PIS and/or like what Starter Pack said (Pkmn movies are like 90% outlier/PIS anyway).

However anime feats seems to not have much against them.
 
Starters points I don’t entirely agree with, but I can definitely understand where he’s coming from with them.

However, nothing about this is PIS. It’s just Pokémon being able to effect lesser scale space-time and it isn’t as if they are stopping things directly from the pokegods (which they are the outliers and something I wasn’t arguing for).
 
Oh yeah there’s another instance that I just remembered (though I can’t find a clip to post it here).

It’s during the episode “Ghoul Daze”. A ghost girl was trying to lead Ash and his friends into the spirit world and to save them, Dusknoir blasted her into the portal that leads to the spirit world and destroyed it.
 
They are specifically inherent because they are the only ones who display it. You have to actively prove every single pokemon in existence, from magikarp to dunsparce to whoever, can warp the fabric of space-time without an exaggerated generalized assumption.
 
No I don’t. These are all random Pokémon who aren’t anything special and are all ones different from another who display these abilities, suggesting that effecting space-time is a common ability for all Pokémon.

Not to mention I still have the point about the Distortion World and it’s purpose that you have yet to address too.

There’s no reason to prove other Pokémon are able to do this when a bunch of random no names have already displayed it.
 
I believe because there is nothing particularly special about the pokémon that do
If they can do something that is not done by ALL the pokemon then there is something special about them...and that is that they can do it. By this logic, there is nothing special about Vegeta that is different from Goku that can grant him resistance to absolute zero or make him launch fire balls. That same logic can be applied to give many different characters all kinds of powers because they are not special.
 
That same logic can be applied to give many different characters all kinds of powers because they are not special.
This is already a practice. If they’re not special or different from each other biologically, that there is no reason for them not to scale.

This is why all Sonic characters can breath in space (not Eggman. Human and always in a mech while in space.) while only a few has shown to be able to do it.

Still Neutral on the ability Space and Time.
 
You do know that breathing in space is not an ability. It has to do with physiology. That analogy does not work here.
 
You do know that breathing in space is not an ability. It has to do with physiology. That analogy does not work here.
And Pokémon‘s abilities come from their physiology. They didn’t wake up one day and get bitten by a radioactive spider. They were born with their abilities inside their bodies. (TMs excluded).
 
This is already a practice. If they’re not special or different from each other biologically, that there is no reason for them not to scale.
This.

I can say with absolute certainty that Pokémon isn’t the only case that does this, many others do as well, and for logical reasons.

We have no reason to restrict abilities that aren’t contextually treated as anything special for only a select few.
 
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