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Not a strawman since that is ur entire argument "I did not see it nor he show it therefore he does not have it"
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Soul King and Yhwach Revisions
- Thread starter Catalyst75
- Start date
- Status
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,453
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The schrift are just more efficient methods for Yhwach to absorb their souls, your skills and abilities become the souls Yhwach absorbs.
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Semantics and nitpicking. I've already given my reasoning for them staying.
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Your attempts at a Strawman Argument are barely worth responding to.
I already explained further up the thread how Yama's Bankai is a different situation entirely, but I'll elaborate here:
1) We've seen other Sternritter absorb Bankai and activate their abilities.
2) We've seen Yhwach state that he can activate Yama's Bankai when he threatened to use his necromancy abilities.
So no, I am not planning to remove Yama's Bankai.
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Are you kidding me? It literally says...
“Knowledge they’ve gained, Abilities they’ve acquired, Talents
That blossomed, All of it...”
It literally ends with all of it meaning everything. Do we really need to break down the meaning of the words for you?
“Knowledge they’ve gained, Abilities they’ve acquired, Talents
That blossomed, All of it...”
It literally ends with all of it meaning everything. Do we really need to break down the meaning of the words for you?
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He gives them a part of his soul which turns into an ability. They acquired that ability from that part of his soul.
The only thing working for you is "he doesn't use them so it's not 100% certain that he can". It's just an argument from disbelief.
The only thing working for you is "he doesn't use them so it's not 100% certain that he can". It's just an argument from disbelief.
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,453
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This is why he has a possibly for the abilities.
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No the manga does not need to spoon feed you each and every thing. If a character is said to possess an ability then the basic assumption is that he can use it. You are going through more leaps of logic claiming that he has the abilities but can not use them for some unknown reason not mentioned by anyone. If you believe he can't due to some limitation or weakness then it is on you to prove that Yhwach has this limitation which is not even mentioned in the manga, not on us to disprove you. Yhwach not using his abilities=/= Yhwach can't use them due to some limitation. You are going to have to prove the latter to even consider this theory of yours which i repeat again has never been mentioned anywhere in the manga.
False, abilities quite literally means the schrifts. Kubo states everything that is their power, abilities, talents they blossomed return to him word for word so yes the schrifts would fairly fall under this.
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Not surprised
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Is damage coming up with a counter right now or something?
Does anyone else have anything they want to say, any issues about this topic they want to bring up?
Does anyone else have anything they want to say, any issues about this topic they want to bring up?
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He still has some Sternwriter abilities
Reactive Power Level, Limited Reality Warping, and Regeneration (Low-Godly with The Miracle), Biological Manipulation (With the Compulsory, his nerves can invade the bodies of others to control their movements), Earth Manipulation (Reiō can control inorganic objects such as the ground and buildings), Body Control, Power Mimicry (Can evolve by absorbing information through its nerves and mimicking his target powers and abilities), Duplication (Reiō can clone itself from severed fingers, can also create copies of himself with The Visionary), Likely Subjective Reality (Can turn his fantasy into reality), Elemental Manipulation, BFR (Can open a portal and send targets to Space), Stealth Mastery and Creation with The Visionary (It heavily implies that Gremmy Thoumeaux is the brain of the soul king),
Reactive Power Level, Limited Reality Warping, and Regeneration (Low-Godly with The Miracle), Biological Manipulation (With the Compulsory, his nerves can invade the bodies of others to control their movements), Earth Manipulation (Reiō can control inorganic objects such as the ground and buildings), Body Control, Power Mimicry (Can evolve by absorbing information through its nerves and mimicking his target powers and abilities), Duplication (Reiō can clone itself from severed fingers, can also create copies of himself with The Visionary), Likely Subjective Reality (Can turn his fantasy into reality), Elemental Manipulation, BFR (Can open a portal and send targets to Space), Stealth Mastery and Creation with The Visionary (It heavily implies that Gremmy Thoumeaux is the brain of the soul king),
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Those are abilities that are from the things that are literally his body parts. They’re fine.
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- Thread starter
- #175
I'll be sure to add the passage to the OP. Thank you.
"All the knowledge they acquired, all the abilities they gained through their efforts, all the talents that blossomed while they were recovering, Became engraved on the soul fragments imparted to them by the babe"
" As their wounds slowly healed, the knowledge they had gained, the abilities they had learned through great effort, the skills they had awakened within themselves... // ...were all imprinted upon the fragments of the baby’s soul that they had received"
These are two separate translations from Mangahelpers, but the full quote is about how knowledge, abilities, and skills/talents engraved upon the soul fragment, not an "all meaning everything". You interpreted "abilities" to specifically mean the powers of the Sternritter, and from there you took it to mean that Yhwach took the special abilities of each Sternritter wholesale. However, as the OP states, Yhwach's never demonstrated any sign or evidence that he possesses the abilities of the Sternritter whose Schrifts came back to him after they died. "Ability" could very well just mean power. In fact, I'd say there is more evidence of "Ability" being "raw power" rather than "special abilities".
Chapter 565 was also where this was said about Yhwach's ability "to give and take":
Haschwalth: In the earlier battle, His Majesty has already... // ...scattered fragments of his own soul across all of Seireitei. // This battle is a battle for His Majesty. // Not only we of the Sternritter... // ...but also any Shinigami who have come into contact with His Majesty’s soul... // ...will give up their own souls as offerings to His Majesty upon their deaths.
15
Haschwalth: No matter who perishes in this battle... // It will only serve to bolster His Majesty’s strength... // ...and to extend His Majesty’s life. /To His Majesty, battle is life itself. / If he does not continue to absorb souls... // Eventually, he will return... // ...to the body he once had, unable to see, to hear, or even to move.
The main purpose of Yhwach's ability is to grow his strength, extend his life, and keep his body functional. The Auswahlen operates similarly, taking life and power and redistributing it, either to Yhwach himself or to other Quincy. If there was direct evidence (not one line of dialogue extrapolated towards a certain meaning) of Yhwach's soul fragments taking special abilities - that every Schrift he took back gave him the corresponding ability - I would think Kubo would have been more clear about this, or even demonstrated it at some point.
Except, he didn't. Yhwach attained Mimihagi's power and the power of the Soul King because he "Consumed" them, a different method of taking power than sharing out his soul fragment and then taking the fragment back.
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Would you mind explaining why taking their abilities would mean anything else? Nobody has done that yet. I don't see why going against common logic and the direct statement is a good idea.
The rest of your point is, yet again, "we haven't seen it so I don't believe he can use it." Just with newer wording.
Explain to me why
1. Taking their abilities wouldn't mean taking their abilities at face value when that's what the narrator states
2. He would want to use any of these abilities when his hax massively out-tiers everything else, and doesn't scale to his Reiryoku as we accept. If you want to argue that point, then you have to scale Yhwach's general stats to the 3-A/low 2-C as it affects all stats.
Nobody has yet.
The rest of your point is, yet again, "we haven't seen it so I don't believe he can use it." Just with newer wording.
Explain to me why
1. Taking their abilities wouldn't mean taking their abilities at face value when that's what the narrator states
2. He would want to use any of these abilities when his hax massively out-tiers everything else, and doesn't scale to his Reiryoku as we accept. If you want to argue that point, then you have to scale Yhwach's general stats to the 3-A/low 2-C as it affects all stats.
Nobody has yet.
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Christ Sake.
“possession of the means or skill to do something.”
looks simple enough to me?
“possession of the means or skill to do something.”
Where are you getting abilities means raw power?
It’s not extrapolation of a single dialogue. It’s literally reading a plain sentence. I don’t need to extrapolate or assume anything when it’s plainly stated. You on the other hand are relying on head canon and misuse of the English language.
How do I extrapolate a sentence that says he gains these things
Even The Almighty is literally stated to be able to steal powers away as well as give raw spiritual pressure away.
I’m sorry you’re using some random translations that all say the same as the official viz translations? What was the point of you mentioning this?
Do you not not know what all of it means? It means exactly that. All of it. I’m not even sure what your point is here?
I interpreted abilities as meaning abilities.
“possession of the means or skill to do something.”
looks simple enough to me?
So you acknowledged here that they’re abilities.
So you acknowledge the schrifts came back to him. You’re literally aiding my argument. What are you doing?
Let’s look up the definition of abilities again
“possession of the means or skill to do something.”
Where are you getting abilities means raw power?
I literally stated this myself. Again how does this help prove Yhwach doesn’t have the abilities?
We all know he sustains himself via absorbing souls.
What does this have to do with abilities?
Sure does.
It’s honestly amazing to me how some people refuse to grasp the idea that him not using the abilities isn’t a real argument.
It’s not extrapolation of a single dialogue. It’s literally reading a plain sentence. I don’t need to extrapolate or assume anything when it’s plainly stated. You on the other hand are relying on head canon and misuse of the English language.
How do I extrapolate a sentence that says he gains these things
- Knowledge
- Talents
- Abilities
What is even your point here? Yhwach has like 5 methods of stealing powers away. Are you forgetting Sankt Altar that he used against Ichibei? This literally means nothing at all.
Even The Almighty is literally stated to be able to steal powers away as well as give raw spiritual pressure away.
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I don't know if this would help at all, but I do physically own every volume of the TYBW arc in English. So I could try and take a picture of the official translation if needed.
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We all already have access to the official translations.
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Yes.
I think Sigurd has proved his point well enough. If nobody can counter that then ig we're done.
I think Sigurd has proved his point well enough. If nobody can counter that then ig we're done.
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I'm currently waiting for more staff to give their views.
Four staff members who have commented so far seem fine with them being removed, unless I'm mistaken.
Four staff members who have commented so far seem fine with them being removed, unless I'm mistaken.
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I'm sorry but that shouldn't matter if it's being countered. It's an active debate.
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I think you are mistaken since only you and duedate are arguing it atm. AKM and shadow are neutral.
The others 2 just said "ok" at the start, and one of them said "if that is the case I agree" which is not, so they should give an argumented input given what we posted. No one was actually defending it while ya removed everything. Blatant example, is fullbringer abilities when is clearly stated he has them at his disposal.
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I'm going to have to agree with Damage here. Giving all the Sternritter abilities appears to be the equivalent of giving Doom Slayer every single hax both active and passive from every single demon in the Doom verse; including Lost Soul's Non-Corporal and Possession abilities. Or giving Caleb every single ability from the Blood verse by the same nature. We only give abilities outright shown or specifically stated and we don't assume they gain every hax ability just by absorbing them.
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All the sterniritter's hax isn't being added here. Only the one's who passed away or he absorbed and returned to him.
We are not assuming anything here. The manga directly states that the abilties, talents and power of every person he has given his soul to will return when they die. It is as specific as it gets. There are literally no assumptions here.
Third not using abilities is not proof that he doesn't have them and this was already addressed which is why we gave him a separate a key and stated it was a possibility not a certainty so again if no other argument other than Yhwach didn't use them is brought here the abilities should stay.
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So, even with a direct statement saying he absorbs people's abilities when they die, and him having something that massively outclasses all of them by 3+ tiers, having a different key with a "possibly" for the abilities is unjustified?
Arcker123
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He should be using tier 6 abilities instead of his tier 2 fate manipulation.
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Having the Almighty is irrelevant, sorry. Yhwach in his fight with Ichibe used a range of Quincy techniques. He doesn't just pick one thing and sticks with it. He had every opportunity to use any other ability in that fight and he didn't.
If he used even one "absorbed ability" this would be a non-issue. Nobody is asking him to use every single one of them in order for them to be on his profile.
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he didn't use the bankai either
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,453
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He also didn’t destroy any souls, remove that from his justification.
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Stop responding to me if you're not going to read my posts.
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Your entire argument again is he did not use them so he shouldn't have them which has been adressed already and why we placed it as possible abilities. So there is no use stonewalling and repeating it again and again. To add on no abiltiy would help against Ichibei when he is nulling Yhwach's power left and right. The only one which can be argued to help would be gremmy's and then again it can be argued to be ooc for him. Also I feel people are forgetting that Yhwach saw how the entire fight would end as he predicted where Ichibei would fall and die. So no Yhwach already knew that just using the quincy technique and the allmighty would be enough to end Ichibei.
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yea, he also did not show ransotengai
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,453
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It’s exactly the same, you are arguing that despite being told Yhwach absorbs skills, talents, and abilities, because we haven’t seen them he shouldn’t have them, he also didn’t use Yamamoto’s bankai either, despite stealing it.
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Stop responding to me if you're not going to read my posts.
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is there a rule saying people cant respond to specific stuff?
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,453
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Stop responding to me if you aren’t going to debunk my arguments.
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No, this is a personal request from me. If you're just going to ignore what I've said when I responded to you here:
Then I am literally wasting my time.
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