Soul King and Yhwach Revisions

[Arcker123]

He didnt give gerard his schrift.

 

[Torsin]

@Axxtentacle; him not using them because he has better abilities is not proof that he can use them.

Its already stated that anyone who he inserts his soul into will have their abilities, talents etc engraved into it and it will return to him. All this is coming to is whether he used it or not which is why we made a note and listed it as him 'possibly' having these abilities. Even in vs threads we dont give him these abilities unless it is explicitly stated that the op allows for his sternitter hax key so I see no problem here.

 

[Duedate8898]

True, but that's one of his listed abilites. Also Mimihagi, and Pernida

 

[Torsin]

The Miracle actually is superior to his fate hax in the resurrection department, and if he did possess it when Ichigo first killed him then he would have resurrected automatically instead of using the All-Mighty.

We already know he was waiting for aizen to deactivate his ks and let his guard down. The almighty can instantly revive him as well. This still doesn't change the fact that his ability has already been described in depth as taking everything -power, abilities, talents etc

 

[Axxtentacle]

Its already stated that anyone who he inserts his soul to will have thier abiliteis, talents etc engraved into it and it will return to him. All this is coming to is whether he used it or not which is why we made a note and listed it as him 'possibly' having these abilties. Even in vs threads we dont give him these abilities unless it is explicitly stated that the op allows for his sternitter hax key so I see no problem here.

Yeah.

I don’t see why the previous compromise we came to is so bad.

 

[Duedate8898]

We already know he was waiting for aizen to deactivate his ks and let his guard down. The almighty can instantly bring him down as well. This still doesn't change the fact that his ability has already been described in depth as takimg everything power, abilities, talents etc

The Almighty is thought based not automatic, The Heart if he truly possessed it would activate before he even thought with the All-Mighty.

And if a character does not demonstrate any of the abilities they apparently have, especially abilites that are passive in nature, then I don't think that we should just say that they have all these powers.

 

[Torsin]

The Almighty is thought based not automatic, The Heart if he truly possessed it would activate before he even thought with the All-Mighty.

And if a character does not demonstrate any of the abilities they apparently have, especially abilites that are passive in nature, then I don't think that we should just say that they have all these powers.

The Miracle is not considered passive and is thought based as well. Its activation atleast.

No Yhwach's soul engraving ability is quite literally explained in detail by Hachwalth who is similar to him though weaker. It states that all the schrifts that he gives comes back to him along with the abilities cultivated by the sternritters. Him not using it is why we put it in possible abilities key. Yhwach hasn't used ryujin jakka as well so he shouldn't be listed as having it all of a sudden?

 

[Axxtentacle]

To be fair, it really could be PIS that he doesn’t use the Miracle.

If he had The Miracle, the Stillsilver arrow or whatever the hell it’s called wouldn’t have been the end. It would’ve just kept going.

Also, I thought we considered The Miracle something that required an activation, and was then passive? Because he gets what seems to be stomped at the start of the fight, then seems to activate his Miracle.

 

[HST_Master]

It is thought based. Gerard got one shotted by Oetsu and was down for the count before Yhwach revived the Schutzstaffel.

 

[Zezu1995]

yall need to leave bleach alone if you gonna ignore everything and dont read... its literally stated it takes them back and it only applies to the DEAD sterns ... sigh every two seconds but here we go again leme just end this before it starts and yes we all wanted him to use them but then they wouldnt be able to win
1- http://prntscr.com/10d90ma all talents
2- http://prntscr.com/10d91yv
3- http://prntscr.com/10d92hf
4- http://prntscr.com/10d92uj
5- http://prntscr.com/10d938u
6- http://prntscr.com/10d93ff steal all power which isnt talk since he has done just that including hollow powers
7- http://prntscr.com/10d93v8 their powers are in their souls which... wait for it..........goes back when they die...

 

[Arcker123]

Our current compromise is perfectly fine IMO.

 

[Duedate8898]

The Miracle is not considered passive and is thought based as well.

No Yhwach's soul engraving ability is quite literally explained in detail by Hachwalth who is similar to him though weaker. It states that all the schrifts that he gives comes back to him along with the abilities cultivated by the sternritters. Him not using it is why we put it in possible abilities key. Yhwach hasn't used ryujin jakka as well so he shouldn't be listed as having it all of a sudden?

We only saw the Miracle come into effect when Gerard died, his head is completely gone, there is no way for him to think nor is it ever said he thinks in order to activate.

It is thought based. Gerard got one shotted by Oetsu and was down for the count before Yhwach revived the Schutzstaffel.

And that isn't it being shown to be thought based. Jugram says that they didn't have their powers before and that they got them back. In fact, Jugram says that Yhwach redistributes powers when he gives them to them his main guard, yet none of the Quincy before this were ever shown with the powers that Yhwach redistributes out.

I don't disagree with Yhwach taking powers away but he doesn't ever seem to possess any of the powers that he actually takes.

 

[Torsin]

We only saw the Miracle come into effect when Gerard died, his head is completely gone, there is no way for him to think nor is it ever said he thinks in order to activate.

No, the Miracle is not considered passive. Oetsu bodies Gerard in his first fight and he doesn't come back up which already disproves it is a passive ability. We dont know how the miracle works entirely. It could be activated through a thought and then automatically revives him whenever after that however all i know is that there isn't enough proof to consider it a passive ability and has never been considered as such.

 

[Duedate8898]

Gerard did not have the Miracle when Oetsu killed him, Jugram himself says they only get their powers after Yhwach takes the powers of other quincies and use them to bring back everyone that Oetsu killed.

 

[Torsin]

Gerard did not have the Miracle when Oetsu killed him, Jugram himself says they only get their powers after Yhwach takes the powers of other quincies and use them to bring back everyone that Oetsu killed.

We quite literally see Lille use his abilities even before all of them get defeated and Yhwach revives them again.

 

[Duedate8898]

No we don't, go read Chapter 604 real quick.
Lille's power is portrayed completely differently after his resurrection.

 

[Torsin]

Ummm we see Askin using his powers as well.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Askin does indeed use his ability before everyone else gets resurrected.

 

[Tyri456]

Is literally stated on the novel that Soul king have fullbringers abilities

 

[Duedate8898]

Askin does indeed use his ability before everyone else gets resurrected.

Ummm we see Askin using his powers as well.

True, so he possessed some of his power. However, after this fight, Askin also uses his power very differently which adds into how Jugram said:
"Those that receive it gain additional power and come back to life."

 

[Tyri456]

It is also stated that Yhwach take back both power, knwoledge and abilities. That is why he has them in first place, not because he gave them, but because everything come back to him. Abilities included. It is even stated that he would have obtained shinigami abilities.

@Axxtentacle; him not using them because he has better abilities is not proof that he can use them.

What is the proof he can not use them when it is stated he has them?
He also had Yamamoto bankai, but never used it.

The profile has a special section for it because you canactually not use them in a match, otherwise all the abilities would have been put in the key section.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Wtf? We had a long crt with evidence that got this accepted already. Why is a random ass crt randomly being immediately applied to the profile...

**** sakes.

No arguments. Dude didn’t even post counter arguments as to why they were accepted.

 

[Axxtentacle]

It was applied to the Soul King, but we’re opposing it for Yhwach.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The Soul King has the Fullbringer abilities. They’re his goddamn powers.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Wait, I thought that was getting rid of the Schrifts only.

Fullbrings are parts of the Soul King. He should have the abilities.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

People are quick to remove shit with no evidence nor argument against it.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Ok, well shit.

I’m FOR the Schrifts being removed from the Soul King, but the Fullbrings should absolutely be a part of his hax.

For Yhwach, i’m still in support of the Schrifts having a separate key and being optional in a fight.

 

[Duedate8898]

It is also stated that Yhwach take back both power, knwoledge and abilities. That is why he has them in first place, not because he gave them, but because everything come back to him. Abilities included. It is even stated that he would have obtained shinigami abilities.

What is the proof he can not use them when it is stated he has them?
He also had Yamamoto bankai, but never used it.

The profile has a special section for it because you canactually not use them in a match, otherwise all the abilities would have been put in the key section.

My point is just because he has them, that doesn't mean he can use them. We know Yhwach could've used the Yammato's bankai because other people that stole banka were shown using them. However, Yhwach, even when he apparently does have other powers, is never shown using them even when one should work without his input from how it's portrayed.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

None of that matters at all. The statement says he gains their abilities. This is the only relevant fact. Why he doesn’t use them in character is unknown. Trying to use him not using his powers is literally a non argument.

 

[Cyberblader90]

do you have a link to the old crt you mentioned?

 

[Duedate8898]

None of that matters at all. The statement says he gains their abilities. This is the only relevant fact. Why he doesn’t use them in character is unknown. Trying to use him not using his powers is literally a non argument.

It is an argument when one of the powers is automatic. That implies he doesn't possess it.

 

[Tyri456]

My point is just because he has them, that doesn't mean he can use them. We know Yhwach could've used the Yammato's bankai because other people that stole banka were shown using them. However, Yhwach, even when he apparently does have other powers, is never shown using them even when one should work without his input from how it's portrayed.

There is literally no point in saying he will get back abilities specifically if he can not use them. You are likely arguing Kubo wrote that without a sense behind it, why writing that in first place if it is useless, Why talking of abilities, power and knowledge specifically? if he cannot use them, he would have not simply wrote abilities, he would have just wrote soul or knowledge. Read the link

You are arguing against the author intent of Yhwach's nature. beside that, again, the profile doesnt put the abilities in his key, they are all in a box of his own. and you can avoid use them.

 

[Cyberblader90]

anybody got the fullbringer statement?

should be a quick fix

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

It is an argument when one of the powers is automatic. That implies he doesn't possess it.

You’re using your vs battle logic to somehow counter established lore? How do you know he doesn’t have to activate it himself? How do you know he can use multiple Schrift at once? Why would he use any of those when he has the greatest ability?

Established lore > you.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

anybody got the fullbringer statement?

should be a quick fix

I’ll do you one better and post the entire CRT that has actual evidence.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/prime-soul-king-profile-additions.55445/

Unless some real arguments are posted here I’m gonna ask for this to be reverted.

 

[Axxtentacle]

It is an argument when one of the powers is automatic. That implies he doesn't possess it.

You realize the resurrection boost is more likely just an amp of power, right? They all literally got solo'd by 1 dude, then they off screen wiped the rest out.

 

[Schnee_One]

This was way too fast for revisions that previously took weeks...

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im sorry, but what?

You’re using your vs battle logic to somehow counter established lore?

How is this vs battles logic? This point is arguing from a logistical perspective, not a debating one. The ability is supposed to be automatic, which means its used outside of conscious control. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with "vs battle logic", its going off of what common sense dictates when something is automatic.

If you supposedly have an automatic ability, and its not automatically used, that leaves a very damning hole of suspicion open on whether or not you have it in the first place.

And for the record, im neutral to Yhwach having/losing these abilities as arguments from both sides are being made. But this point here just aint it.

 

[Duedate8898]

The on-screen showings support that even when Yhwach using his Auswählen to take abilites away, which is how he gains most of those listed on his profile, that it doesn't actually give those powers to others to use. As seen with the Schutzstaffel, who are never seen with any powers previously possessed by other Sternritters even after Yhwach redistributes the power and Yhwach himself who never presents any of the powers that he apparently possesses (one of which is automatic).

 

[Axxtentacle]

Other Sternritter have their abilities before being resurrected, there's no real reason he wouldn't. The Miracle is most likely just something that he needs to activate and is then passive.