Soul King and Yhwach Revisions

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Established lore > you unless you can post me something from the manga the suggest Kubo is wrong about his own lore.

The on-screen showings support that even when Yhwach using his Auswählen to take abilites away, which is how he gains most of those listed on his profile, that it doesn't actually give those powers to others to use. As seen with the Schutzstaffel, who are never seen with any powers previously possessed by other Sternritters even after Yhwach redistributes the power and Yhwach himself who never presents any of the powers that he apparently possesses (one of which is automatic).

This is literally not right at all. Yhwach’s lore on how he gains abilities literally has nothing to do with Auswhalen which is a transfer of power.

Auswhalen is a separate thing entirely. Tell me do you believe he is using Auswhalen every second to stay alive? It simply states the souls of the dead he has interacted with go to him when they die. Simply touching Yhwach gives you a piece of his soul. That piece absorbs your very being on a spiritual level and it goes to him giving everything and knowing everything said person knew.

We literally see this when Mask dies.

 

[Duedate8898]

Most of the abilities that Yhwach apparently gets are gained via him using Auswhalen. He kills most of the Quincy himself by ripping away their lives. I'm not talking about those that are killed by others or anything like that. Hell, we have it listed under Aushwalen on Yhwach pages that's one of the ways he gains powers.

I'm not saying he uses it all the time, what I'm saying is that this is the means we're repeatedly shown in which he would acquire these abilities.

 

[Tyri456]

The on-screen showings support that even when Yhwach using his Auswählen to take abilites away, which is how he gains most of those listed on his profile, that it doesn't actually give those powers to others to use. As seen with the Schutzstaffel, who are never seen with any powers previously possessed by other Sternritters even after Yhwach redistributes the power and Yhwach himself who never presents any of the powers that he apparently possesses (one of which is automatic).

Thats unrelated to the reason why he has them.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Except it isn’t. Read what I wrote and please go look at the actual lore and show me where it says he used Auswhalen to do this.

I literally explained it you how he primarily gains abilities. He simply gains them because the souls of dead people he’s interacted with forcefully go to him. It’s how he learned to breath and etc.

Via your logic The Soul King shouldn’t have lost his legs, arms, and all his organs since The Miracle is his heart originally.

Why isn’t he a giant now? Why didn’t he regrow his arms and organs back?

I mean it’s automatic right?

 

[Tyri456]

Yhwach's nature is to gain abilities, kwoledge and talents of whoever get in touch with him.
Thats literally the reason why he grown in first place.

["knowledge they have gained"
"abilities they have acquired"
"talents ....]

 

[Duedate8898]

Except it isn’t. Read what I wrote and please go look at the actual lore and show me where it says he used Auswhalen to do this.

I literally explained it you how he primarily gains abilities. He simply gains them because the souls of dead people he’s interacted with forcefully go to him. It’s how he learned to breath and etc.

Via your logic The Soul King shouldn’t have lost his legs, arms, and all his organs since The Miracle is his heart originally.

Why isn’t he a giant now? Why didn’t he regrow his arms and organs back?

I mean it’s automatic right?

Because the Soul King let it happen to him. Not to mention that the Soul King specifically had these parts of him that would have these powers, literally torn out of him so he wouldn't be able to use him.

Yhwach fits neither of those conditions.

Not to mention this beautiful page right here:

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I honestly have no clue what your argument is here. You can’t actually argue at all he doesn’t have the sternritter abilities.

You’re showing me The Auswhalen can steal power? Everyone knows this. And I know he used it when he resurrected.

Auswhalen isn’t relevant as to why he has the abilities. You’re not providing anything new at all that wasn’t said in the thread that got him said abilities and even that silly note as a compromise for specific people. Unless you have something that shows he absolutely has none of these abilities this is a waste of everyone’s time.

Edit - As for the Soul King that doesn’t negate my point that his organs and everything would grow back due to the miracle. You’re saying it’s impossible for Yhwach to not use it yet saying it is for the soul king? Remember the requirement if it activating via hope and fear of the masses? Those people were pretty afraid of the SK. And no he wasn’t a fan of being screwed over like that.

 

[Duedate8898]

Okay let me give you both pages back to back:

It literally says he uses Auswhalen to take powers and make them his own. Throughout this entire arc, we see him use Auswhalen to rip away power and strengthen others and himself. But the actual powers that are taken away, never appear. Which more points to these abilites merely being used as a way of enhancement instead of actually gaining the abilites for use themselves.

 

[Arcker123]

"That's not what I mean. Do you know how Fullbringers are born?" "I think I can guess. A fragment of the Rei-o, am I right?" ~Can't Fear Your Own World Volume 3 pages 256-276)

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Again him not using the ability doesn’t mean he doesn’t have it. Are you legit forgetting the entire existence of him absorbing Yama’s Bankai?

My point still stands as to how schrifts and Yhwach work. There is an entire chapter dedicated to how he gives and takes power. And how he gives schrifts.

 

[Duedate8898]

That's not a particularly strong quote for justification of someone having every single power from a single group. I think you might be looking for another one?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im pretty sure Duedates point is that the Soul King couldn't use the Miracle to come back from his organs being gouged out because he's losing the organs that specifically has that power. The Miracle is Reio's heart. But his heart was removed. Thus, the Miracle was removed from Reio. How can you use what isn't there anymore?

Thats what his point was I think.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Wouldn’t PSK still get that though?

 

[Duedate8898]

Again him not using the ability doesn’t mean he doesn’t have it. Are you legit forgetting the entire existence of him absorbing Yama’s Bankai?

My point still stands as to how schrifts and Yhwach work. There is an entire chapter dedicated to how he gives and takes power. And how he gives schrifts.

Again, we're shown people who steal bankai's being able to use them. Hence we have support for believing Yhwach could do the same. I didn't forget Yama bankai, it's just that Yama's bankai is an entirely different situation that justifies itself
We have a direct contradiction in presentation for Yhwach apparently possessing these other powers.
And if one of the powers you're supposed to possess is automatic and you then don't present it, that then throws suspicion into you actually having these powers

Wouldn’t PSK still get that though?

Sure, it's his heart after all.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Im pretty sure Duedates point is that the Soul King couldn't use the Miracle to come back from his organs being gouged out because he's losing the organs that specifically has that power. The Miracle is Reio's heart. But his heart was removed. Thus, the Miracle was removed from Reio. How can you use what isn't there anymore?

Thats what his point was I think.

Remember when Gerard’s entire upper body was destroyed?

 

[Duedate8898]

Remember when Gerard’s entire upper body was destroyed?

Okay, Gerard is literally the heart. You can't remove him from himself.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Again, we're shown people who steal bankai's being able to use them. Hence we have support for believing Yhwach could do the same. I didn't forget Yama bankai, it's just that Yama's bankai is an entirely different situation that justifies itself
We have a direct contradiction in presentation for Yhwach apparently possessing these other powers.
And if one of the powers you're supposed to possess is automatic and you then don't present it, that then throws suspicion into you actually having these powers

It’s not suspicious at all. It would be impossible to defeat him were he to use all those abilities.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Okay, Gerard is literally the heart. You can't remove him from himself.

The heart is a heart. Not a dude pretending to be a Viking.

Mimihagi and Pernida are hands. And the only aspects of the SK literally stated to gain self sentience.

 

[Duedate8898]

It’s not suspicious at all. It would be impossible to defeat him were he to use all those abilities.

No it doesn't. The arrow still works just fine as it did in the series even if he does use all of the abilities. And I'm not saying he has to use all of them, but using a single one would support him having it. Especially the one that acts such as The Miracle, which should act just by the act of him dying or taking fatal damage.

The heart is a heart. Not a dude pretending to be a Viking.

Mimihagi and Pernida are hands.

And no idea what you're trying to say here.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Pretty sure he’s saying that the physical heart is still there, as the other body parts represent actual body parts.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Gerard isn’t a literal heart as you implied. He is a dude who has the heart.

Unlike Pernida and Mimihagi who are the only parts of the SK to become sentient.

 

[Duedate8898]

Gerard is directly referred to as Reio's Heart, so where are you getting that from?

Hell, we have him listed as the heart on site.

 

[Axxtentacle]

He’s a humanoid and not a gigantic sentient heart.

 

[Duedate8898]

He’s a humanoid and not a gigantic sentient heart.

Okay, that doesn't change anything.

Mimihagi was like a living shadow with an eye.

While Pernida actually changed their form throughout their fight.

Neither of those are just normal ass arms that would even fit on the Reio we saw.

This is coming off as grasping at straws.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

this isn’t straw grasping lol. You just don’t understand .

Mimihagi has always been a hand and so has Pernida who has the power of evolution lol...

Even in the novel it only mentions Pernida and Mimihagi as the only sentient aspects of him.

If anyone is grasping at straws here it would be you trying to revert established lore based on the logic he hasn’t used them. You’re trying to use some sort of small detail Kubo forgot/or just decided against to argue the lore is wrong that he himself wrote.

You’re saying when he wrote “Yhwach gains the abilities of those that died” is lie.

 

[Axxtentacle]

The Mimihagi was also a gigantic ass sentient shadow hand. Pernida was a giant sentient hand. Them being weird only makes sense, the Soul King’s body itself is weird. Every aspect of his body has shown extremely unusual aspects.

Also, Gremmy was a brain. A physical brain with a body. Gerard more than like just has the heart in his body, because every other removed part of his body that we’ve seen has been a sentient body part either within a body or it is it’s own body. It doesn’t make sense that the Heart would be an exception.

 

[HST_Master]

We only saw the Miracle come into effect when Gerard died, his head is completely gone, there is no way for him to think nor is it ever said he thinks in order to activate.

If he's already activated it, why would there be a need to do it a second time?

And that isn't it being shown to be thought based. Jugram says that they didn't have their powers before and that they got them back. In fact, Jugram says that Yhwach redistributes powers when he gives them to them his main guard, yet none of the Quincy before this were ever shown with the powers that Yhwach redistributes out.

No. Jugram says nothing of the sort. It was Lille and he says he didn't get the chance to use X-Axis. Jugram says that they're all stronger than before due to Auswahlen. Plus the only thing saying it's passive is your own assertion, otherwise Gerard shouldn't have been one spotted. And as someone else mentioned, Askin had the deathdealing.

I don't disagree with Yhwach taking powers away but he doesn't ever seem to possess any of the powers that he actually takes.

Again CIS =/= doesn't have it at all. He has Yamamoto's Bankai, and more than likely Vollstandig as well and uses neither.

 

[HST_Master]

this isn’t straw grasping lol. You just don’t understand .

Mimihagi has always been a hand and so has Pernida who has the power of evolution lol...

Even in the novel it only mentions Pernida and Mimihagi as the only sentient aspects of him.

If anyone is grasping at straws here it would be you trying to revert established lore based on the logic he hasn’t used them. You’re trying to use some sort of small detail Kubo forgot/or just decided against to argue the lore is wrong that he himself wrote.

You’re saying when he wrote “Yhwach gains the abilities of those that died” is lie.

To boot despite not literally being The Soul King's Nail, Rangiku was referred to as such, just like Gerard when she was in possession of it.

 

[Damage3245]

I still haven't seen any evidence that Yhwach is capable of even activating a Schrift.

I don't care about him absorbing them. Show me some evidence that he can use them.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Why the hell would he have abilities he’s incapable of ever using if he desired? That’s literally stupid. Does that mean he can’t use Yama’s Bankai?

Talking about evidence yet you removed dozens of abilities from a profile with 0 evidence posted whatsoever within the thread to negate the original CRT. Just your personal opinions you’ve been spreading for years now as fact.

 

[Damage3245]

Does that mean he can’t use Yama’s Bankai?

Yama's Bankai is a completely separate topic.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

No it’s not. It’s literally what you said wtf? You said you don’t care that he absorbs only that I can show evidence of him using one? It’s literally the same thing.

Edit - Also please show me the arguments that was agreed on that negates the previous CRT that you so hastily removed.

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye; it's a completely different mechanism. We have examples of Sternritter absorbing Bankai via the Medallion and being able to use them at will.

We have no examples of Yhwach being able to use any Schrifts at will besides his own.

EDIT: The fact that you have not supplied any evidence yet only confirms to me that there is no evidence. So why should we accept them being on his profile any longer?

 

[Torsin]

True, so he possessed some of his power. However, after this fight, Askin also uses his power very differently which adds into how Jugram said:
"Those that receive it gain additional power and come back to life."

I mean Askin damn near explains his entire ability in that fight and what he said is quite similar to what he used after he got revived as well. But sure, Yhwach somehow amplified their abilities but we really dont know to what extent which is why I said earlier there isn't enough evidence to consider it a passive ability.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye; it's a completely different mechanism. We have examples of Sternritter absorbing Bankai via the Medallion and being able to use them at will.

We have no examples of Yhwach being able to use any Schrifts at will besides his own.

EDIT: The fact that you have not supplied any evidence yet only confirms to me that there is no evidence. So why should we accept them being on his profile any longer?

Because this isn’t how we make profiles. You don’t need to show every god damn ability. What you’re saying is down right stupid dude. We know he has the abilities and that’s all that matters for listing them on said profiles. Why the hell are you recycling your same old ass arguments from before?

We should remove every ability from the Spul King besides Creation since he hasn’t done shit. Only statements.

 

[Damage3245]

Because this isn’t how we make profiles. You don’t need to show every god damn ability.

I'm not asking him to show every ability. I'm asking him to show a single one.

And there is none to be found.

There's not even any statements from other characters besides Haschwalth that would imply he can use other Schrifts. No "We need to be careful because Yhwach has this power now", or "How will we get around this power if he uses it." Nothing outside of that one mention from Haschwalth implies at any point that he could activate any Schrift at will.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That’s dumb. He already has the greatest power and is nigh unbeatable. Why the hell do we need those worthless statements to validate anything stated about Yhwach?

It’s his god damn lore that clearly states he gains the abilities of those he touched and imparted his soul on when they die? Can you stop ignoring the actual important part and asking me about nonsense?

This argument didn’t work before. Why do you think it’s going to work now?

 

[Damage3245]

It’s his god damn lore that clearly states he gains the abilities of those he touched and imparted his soul on when they die?

It's nowhere stated that he can use those abilities himself.

And in every subsequent chapter after that, Yhwach has never once used the abilities, or thought about using the abilities, or stated he could use the abilities, or had anyone around him at any time imply he could use the abilities.

So forgive me for expressing a bit of reasonable doubt here as to Yhwach actually having every single Schrift on hand available for him to activate and use.

EDIT: So far we have four staff members in favor of removing them. I'll see if there's any others who want to comment.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1. How is it so hard for you to understand how profiles work? You’re a darn administrator. He doesn’t need to be shown using the abilities for them to be listed. We know he has them.

2. Again above. The statement is crystal clear. Get this through your head...

3. This isn’t reasonable doubt at all. You’re being incredibly unreasonable as usual scrutinizing the **** out the verse into oblivion. You’re literally questioning his ******* established lore because he doesn’t use his lesser abilities. When that’s not relevant at all to it being on the profile.

 

[Torsin]

It's nowhere stated that he can use those abilities himself.

So Yhwach is stated to get powers, talents, abilties etc. back after his soul returns in his lore but he can only use power now? He can't use the abilities or talents that he gets, is that what's being said here?

So forgive me for expressing a bit of reasonable doubt here as to Yhwach actually having every single Schrift on hand available for him to activate and use.

And this doubt was why everyone compromised and decided to add it as a 'possibility' and write a note under saying he hasn't used these abilities but his lore states that it should logically return to him. This has been followed to date and even in vs threads we dont normally give the abilties unless the op in the vs thread states it.