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Speed Equalized.
SBA.
6D keys.
Sora:
Yang Qi: Georredannea15, ThanatosX, Robo432343, Fezzih_007, Unqver, TheGreatJedi13, Setsuna_tenma
Incon:
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Sora (Kingdom Hearts) VS Yang Qi (Sage Monarch)
- Thread starter Muchacho_mrm
- Start date
Speed Equalized.
SBA.
6D keys.
Sora:
Yang Qi: Georredannea15, ThanatosX, Robo432343, Fezzih_007, Unqver, TheGreatJedi13, Setsuna_tenma
Incon:
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- Thread starter
- #2
It is a weekend so I suppose this is a good time to do this match. So lets get to it.
First of all, Sora can't see nor interact with Yang Qi.
SBA means it takes place in Central Park, New York City. Meaning once the match starts, Yang Qi would have already passively destroyed the universe because it can't contain him. Making the battlefield probably a void which is probably further destroyed (dude's voice can destroy laws, voids, etc). This also affects Sora considering he is baseline, meaning he gets passive AP stomped.
Essentially this thread is based on what can Yang Qi do to Sora rather than the reverse and below are abilities Sora doesn't resist that Yang Qi possesses:
Lastly, it would help if someone elaborated on his HGR immortality type 8 because Yang Qi would automatically strike at Sora + whatever is connected to his existence. So why wouldn't he one shot the one bringing him back?
First of all, Sora can't see nor interact with Yang Qi.
SBA means it takes place in Central Park, New York City. Meaning once the match starts, Yang Qi would have already passively destroyed the universe because it can't contain him. Making the battlefield probably a void which is probably further destroyed (dude's voice can destroy laws, voids, etc). This also affects Sora considering he is baseline, meaning he gets passive AP stomped.
Essentially this thread is based on what can Yang Qi do to Sora rather than the reverse and below are abilities Sora doesn't resist that Yang Qi possesses:
- Sleep Manipulation.
- Fear Manipulation (probably resists through mind manipulation resistance)
- Matter Manipulation.
- Deconstruction.
- Soul Manipulation.
- Biological Manipulation.
- Law Manipulation.
- Chaos Manipulation.
- Subjective Reality.
- Reality Warping.
- Spatial Manipulation.
- Power Modification
Lastly, it would help if someone elaborated on his HGR immortality type 8 because Yang Qi would automatically strike at Sora + whatever is connected to his existence. So why wouldn't he one shot the one bringing him back?
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- Thread starter
- #3
Additionally, since this is an open debate for all supporters and non-supporters, there is something brought up before, which is Yang Qi's Power Removal which links to the Power Absorption page. The page states the following:
The reason I brought this up is because Yang Qi's ability has two applications. The first is removing someone's power, which could create a debate on whether Sora partially resists or not. The second application is straight up erasing abilities. Which Sora would not resist since it is a different means.
So yes, Yang Qi would erase Sora's abilities. That is my opinion.
- Power Absorption is a combination of Power Mimicry and Nullification, not just copying the abilities of others, but stealing them for one's own use, stripping the original bearer of their powers while gaining access to more. This may not be accomplished through literal absorption, but it can be, among a number of other potential means. The user's copied abilities may be inferior to the original's, or maybe retained only for a short period of time, but others can actually improve upon these powers.
- It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can copy anything; even if they can copy the functions of the ability, they may not be able to copy its full destructive power.
The reason I brought this up is because Yang Qi's ability has two applications. The first is removing someone's power, which could create a debate on whether Sora partially resists or not. The second application is straight up erasing abilities. Which Sora would not resist since it is a different means.
So yes, Yang Qi would erase Sora's abilities. That is my opinion.
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Actually wouldn't this by itself incap Sora, he hasn't shown the capacity to act within a nonexistent void, let alone a void more nonexistent than that
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the location can be left during the fight
so if Sora has HGR and he kinda got nuked along side reality he would just regen somewhere else where he can move
so if Sora has HGR and he kinda got nuked along side reality he would just regen somewhere else where he can move
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Sora's HGR would literally just put him right back in the void, where he still can't act because there is no medium for him to do so
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ngl qi kinda stomps
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Infinite Authority go brrrr (Infinite layers of hax and resistance)
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not really it is type 8
whichever the source of that type 8 could even regenerate or resurrect him to where the type 8 is
also, the type 8 wouldn't be in new york but somewhere in Sora's own verse world so she wouldn't die (although that's kinda weird having someone resurrect you as type 8 immo isn't that outside influence?)
Georredannea15
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Yang qi FRA, Sora can't even interact with him. The hax difference and layer difference between them is huge. In fact, looking at current profiles, I don't see any characters in non-smurf Low 1-C that can interact with Yang Qi
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Why would Sora not be able to interact with him?
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Nep 2 + Acausality type 5.
Georredannea15
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Type 2 NEP with all aspect types, Acausality Type 5 and Transduality Type 2, apart from that he has inf hax layers
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From what I know only Transduality Type 3 makes a character impossible to interact with, but I might be wrong. Regarding Acausality Type 5, it would be necessary to see if he even qualify anymore considering the changes to the standards and seeing how he only have statements of being above cause and effect, which by itself is not enough to warrant that anymore.
And regarding NEP Type 2, that can actually be problematic to some degree, but Sora can still hax things of him that aren't covered in that NEP. As DontTalkDT said in this comment, (the part where he responds to my question) a character that have NEP Type 2 can still be affect by haxes that doesn't necessarily target what the character lacks.
Also, before the FRA train begins people should give time to the supporters of the opposing verse to make an argument. I would make some arguments, but I don't have the time to start a debate at the moment unfortunately.
And on top of this I was also about to make a revision for KH, so this match couldn't have come at a worst time.
And regarding NEP Type 2, that can actually be problematic to some degree, but Sora can still hax things of him that aren't covered in that NEP. As DontTalkDT said in this comment, (the part where he responds to my question) a character that have NEP Type 2 can still be affect by haxes that doesn't necessarily target what the character lacks.
Also, before the FRA train begins people should give time to the supporters of the opposing verse to make an argument. I would make some arguments, but I don't have the time to start a debate at the moment unfortunately.
And on top of this I was also about to make a revision for KH, so this match couldn't have come at a worst time.
Georredannea15
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Firstly, you cannot interact with Type 5 Acausality in any way without having Type 5 Acausality.
Second is as important in your aspect types as you have NEP. And yang qi has all aspect types. In this case he can't interact with Yang Qi in any way.
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If we ignore the third key, he has TD2. Sora has never seen nor interacted with someone who has it.
From what I see, your question was regarding aspect and you received an aspect answer. You still need feats of seeing and interacting with Type 2 and someone has already mentioned Yang Qi has all aspects.
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it was noted in DonttalkTD that you must elaborate on what are the aspects in type 5
and the blog only discussed how one transcends these types and how one exist outside these types but not what are all the aspect types involved within it.
though i doubt Sora actually has a hax that affects an extra aspect
and the blog only discussed how one transcends these types and how one exist outside these types but not what are all the aspect types involved within it.
though i doubt Sora actually has a hax that affects an extra aspect
Georredannea15
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Sora cannot interact with any NEP or Aspect aspect. It's already dead.
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Bruh
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I forgot this but Sora doesn't also resist energy manipulation. Yang Qi can ignite his energy or freeze or melt it.
Not sure if this is something to resist but Yang Qi can also force self-destruction, as in force you self-detonate (last ability on his first key).
Not sure if this is something to resist but Yang Qi can also force self-destruction, as in force you self-detonate (last ability on his first key).
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where is this infinite layers coming from
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Are you talking abt nasu?
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Some of the haxes that you mentioned at the beginning, Sora does resist. As they are native to his Heart and apart of the Keyblade's Powers
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Georredannea15
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I know there is no inf layer in Nasuverse Low 1-C.
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I don't think you understand what I said. The standards for Acausality are changed, Yang Qi reasoning for having Acausality Type 5 are outdated in the first place. It should be re-evaluated just any other character that have it. In fact, there is a thread just now that is reviewing if characters can still qualify to Acausality Type 5 or not, so he should be brought up there.
What's exactly the reasoning as to why Yang Qi lacks every single aspect of NEP Type 2? Because I read the blog, and there are justification for Type 2, sure, but I don't see any reasoning for the Aspects.
Sleep is resisted both by his resistence to Darkness and by the Power of Waking, of which one of his main power is to wake up. Fear is resisted thanks to resistence to Emphatic Manipulation. Spatial Manipulation is resisted. Matter, Deconstruction, Soul and Biological Manipulation are countered by High Godly. Power Modification is countered by the nature itself of the power of Light and Darkness, which are Conceptual in nature and unless he was shown to copy/modify/whatever a power fully based on concepts and informations than he wont be able to do it. Law, Chaos and Subjective Manipulation depends on the application and how it works, but unless they can bypass High-Godly and Immortality Type 8 than I don't think they can help a lot.
And about that, how exactly Yang Qi deals with High-Godly? And no, killing Kairi wont help. Even after Kairi's Heart (her concept) was destroyed and she was completely erased, the High-Godly and Immortality Type 8 still worked just fine.
For the part of Sora coming back and being destroyed over and over again, that's definitely not what would happen. He would reappear in the Final World, a place that exist beyond anything in the Cosmology and detached from anything. From there he can just use the Power of Waking to Time Travel and undo whatever he wants.
All in all, I can see this being an Incon at worst since neither would be able to put down the other.
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But there is, you got told this before, there are peeps with infinite authority, and more authority = more layers of hax and resistanceI know there is no inf layer in Nasuverse Low 1-C.
Georredannea15
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Then open a thread for this, but based on current profiles, Sora can't interact with him.
Just look the profile
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i am pretty sure TD 2 and 3 are the uninteractable ones
just not type 1
just not type 1
Georredannea15
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You can physically interact with type 2(As far as I know) , this will only immunise you against conceptual attacks. Otherwise, yes, you cannot interact with type 3.
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nope, type 2 is still immune to normal interaction
Georredannea15
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But I have not seen any articles or references to it. It only gives conceptual immunity (alone). But if TD2 also contains haxs like Aca5 and NEP2, then yes you can't interact with TD2, because TD2 will be a hax that contains Aca5 and NEP. But otherwise you can physically interact.
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His resistance states that he resists "KH Darkness Manipulation" and the page it links to has a tabber for manipulation. If he also resist everything in the inherent tab, then that is confusing for a newbie.
All of the hax listed are indeed countered by HGR but it still results in his 'death'. His power being conceptual doesn't matter, cultivators manipulate duality, contain it and manifest it (CM 1) and can manipulate information of reality and energy.
Law manipulation are rules. It wouldn't matter how Yang Qi applies it, whether he uses the laws of life and death, the laws of space and time, the laws of reincarnation, the laws of primal chaos, Sora still 'dies'.
Chaos manipulation is manipulating the primal energy before creation. It melts anything and turns it into that chaotic energy. Even time, fate and karma being no exception.
Subjective reality is his own domain of his mind, within it fictional and non-fictional are the same if he wants it to. This ability alone ends the fight.
Even if Sora dies and goes to that 'Final World', what is stopping Yang Qi from following? Also Yang Qi is infinitely above baseline 6D While Sora is baseline.
'Outside' the cosmology for him would be his own world. Other than that, it would also be (Nevasaññānāsaññāyatana) which sees 6D as fictional but 6D sees it as neither real nor unreal.
Also Sora is time travelling where? The SBA battlefield is just a void. Even if he could time travel in it, he certainly wouldn't find Yang Qi there.
If it is some separate timeline stuff, then first key Yang Qi can kill both the future and the present one. At the same time:
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As the blog says, Half-Annulled turned everything about them non-existent. And as the blog says, their mind occupies the gap between real and unreal. This is useless because Nevasaññānāsaññāyatana already does this for them. Anyways a cultivator has a soul (also their mind), a will (abstract existence), nascent divinity, animadestiny, destiny and made up of info. Which covers all aspects except 5. If there was an aspect for energy, it would also be covered.
As for Yang Qi, he has his fateless one constitution (his acausality type 4) which transcends fate and is both unreal and real at the same time.
Which would also cover aspect 2 and possibly type 5 but type 5 is also covered by 'destiny' a concept used by the author in his other work which is a measure of plot relevance (think a hierarchy of protagonists/main-characters). Of-course it would require proof that Destiny is fundamental and by some miracle it is:
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@ThanatosX Going to sleep. You forgot to include reality warping in your previous post as it doesn't seem like Sora resists.
Edit: Also fate manipulation.
Edit: Also fate manipulation.
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oh is that nasu? the infinite authority. I thought it was yan qing.
can I get the argument for nasu infinite authority? since i only know about ten crowns and how it nulls authority
Georredannea15
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I know from old threads that nasu only gets 22 or 23 layers from the authority, not infinite. Apart from that I remember that the latest concepts are not Type 1
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Ngl, my comments were more for preventing a FRA train because I thought that some other supporters were interested in the match-up, I didn't want to actively participate in it since matches stress me a bit ... But whatever, I will make one last comment and than leave it as it is.
Second, even assuming he is infinitely above baseling 6-D in AP, that wouldn't make him infinitely above baseline in range. If he is, for example, able to travel across an infinite amount of Low 1-C structures than that wouldn't make him above baseline in range. The only way to have above baseling range is to be able to reach, in this case, a Low 1-C realm that is unreachable even to people that have Low 1-C range. And the Final World is a lot above baseline in this regard.
Third, if Neva sees a 6-D cosmology as fiction than that would make it easily 7-D, so what is he even doing in the Non-Smurf list?
But apart from that, him following Sora in the Final World not only is unlikely given everything said above, but it would also be a bad move from him since Sora could just seal him in there.
Thought, Sora doesn't need to interact with him for certain things. For example, Sealing is a douable option given that he would seal the realm he is inside rather than him, and his Sealing is not only layered, but I believe it can even bypass Sealing Negation. Thought, while I am sure for the first, I wont bet on the second one since I don't know what was accepted and what not, so don't take my word for it.
But I noticed that Yang Qi was recently brought up in the Acausality Type 5 checklist thread, so we should wait and see what Glass think of it. Until than, I don't think that Acausality should be considered in this fight.
As for the last point:
And Fate Manipulation by itself can be countered by the Power of Waking, which also allows him to change destined events as seen when he uses it to undo the prophecy of Darkness winning and to come back even if he is "destined" to die or lose.
As I said before, this is my last comment in here, and as mentioned in my previous comment I believe this is an Incon, so put me down as voting for Incon and whatever is decided is decided.
There doesn't seem anything that can actually counter High-Godly and Immortality Type 8. Law Manipulation would cause him to die, which would make them kick in. Chaos Manipulation is an Incap that turns him into something else, something that High-Godly and Immortality Type 8 already countered when he was turned into an Heartless. And for Subjective Reality you didn't exaplain how he applies it to get rid of the enemies, but if it's something that kills or permanently incapacitate Sora than High-Godly and Immortality will kick in once again.
First of all, how exactly is Yang Qi infinitely above baseline? Because the only way to be in any way above baseline is throught scaling chains. Destroying an infinite amount of Low 1-C structure would still qualify as baseline since, as explained by Ultima, infinite*infinite = infinite. And if he is, instead, infinite^infinite it would make him 1-C. An example of this is Infinity Ultron, which was previously assumed to be infinitely above baseline 2-A, but since that was impossible he was upgrade to Low 1-C.
Second, even assuming he is infinitely above baseling 6-D in AP, that wouldn't make him infinitely above baseline in range. If he is, for example, able to travel across an infinite amount of Low 1-C structures than that wouldn't make him above baseline in range. The only way to have above baseling range is to be able to reach, in this case, a Low 1-C realm that is unreachable even to people that have Low 1-C range. And the Final World is a lot above baseline in this regard.
Third, if Neva sees a 6-D cosmology as fiction than that would make it easily 7-D, so what is he even doing in the Non-Smurf list?
But apart from that, him following Sora in the Final World not only is unlikely given everything said above, but it would also be a bad move from him since Sora could just seal him in there.
Sora's time travel is a bit peculiar, considering that it's not a traditional one, but rather a conseguence of him rewriting certain events. Thanks to this, he is able to create contradicting histories in the same timeline.
As much as I don't find this convincing, I will allign with what is on the profile so I will concede on this.
Thought, Sora doesn't need to interact with him for certain things. For example, Sealing is a douable option given that he would seal the realm he is inside rather than him, and his Sealing is not only layered, but I believe it can even bypass Sealing Negation. Thought, while I am sure for the first, I wont bet on the second one since I don't know what was accepted and what not, so don't take my word for it.
As I already said previously, the standards for Acausality Type 5 changed and this alone is not enough. Lucifer had similiar reasoning but was rejected because it was deemed as insufficient for the current standards.
But I noticed that Yang Qi was recently brought up in the Acausality Type 5 checklist thread, so we should wait and see what Glass think of it. Until than, I don't think that Acausality should be considered in this fight.
As for the last point:
I ignored Reality Warping because by itself it's useless, it's the application of it that makes the difference. RW allows someone to perform other haxes, like transmutation, law manipulation, ecc... Sora resists multiple application of Reality Warping, so it all depends what he uses it for.
And Fate Manipulation by itself can be countered by the Power of Waking, which also allows him to change destined events as seen when he uses it to undo the prophecy of Darkness winning and to come back even if he is "destined" to die or lose.
As I said before, this is my last comment in here, and as mentioned in my previous comment I believe this is an Incon, so put me down as voting for Incon and whatever is decided is decided.
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You have literally been told otherwise by knowledgable members before, but at this point I will stop derailing this thread
