Proposal for a Nonexistent Physiology Revision

[DontTalkDT]

Sadly I cant really think of a character that would fit this, but only a phenomenon. In the Never Ending Story, the story itself gets erased, leaving nothing behind. Nothing within the story applies to that part of the story, as it technically isnt ven part of the story anymore. So all laws, concepts, narratives, etc of the story are nonexistent within it. If a character had something like that, would that not qualify? Also, there is no reason as to why a character would always need to be in that state. What if they could turn it on and of? That would still allow them to get indexed while still having. Are there any characters on the wiki like that? idk.

Also, if them paradoxically being NEP is so fundamentally different from "truly" being NEP, shouldnt those get their own ratings?

I made the paradoxical NEP it's own thing in the new draft. As for the Nothing: I know the story well, but no it isn't true nonexistence. The Nothing can pull people in and make them into lies. The Nothing can also occupy an area. The story mentions how it replaces certain things and slowly creeps into places. One can argue that the Nothing is Idealistic NEP, as the book points out that it is even less than the absence of everything, but it still displays some existent proprties.

The soul typically still has some type of "form" to it. The mind itself, without body or soul, is typically fully abstract. A mind is more often then not less tangible than the soul. The mind being a part of the soul isnt really a counter point to that. Anyways, i cant say this on behalf of every piece of fiction out there, but in basically all pieces of fiction I know, the soul tends to be a "more existant" or "more real" thing than the mind. (especially with things like ghosts and stuff like that). Anyways, conceptual stuff should still be put above either, either way.

I think Slime datta ken has mind < soul. I know for a fact Kumo desu ga works under that principle.

But, as said, I see no real advantage in making a hierarchy in the first place. It excludes legitimate options rather than helping with covering them.

I personally like it. Though I am not sure if it should be limited to transdual things. To go by the current standards:

". . . any abstract state which precedes or opposes the state of existence on all levels"

Should also still qualify, even if its not specifically transdual. Basically the difference of "simply not being" and "not being to a degree that you arent part of reality in any way". Basically existing being 1 (something that has value), not existing being 0 (something with no value, as it doesn't exist, but is still part of reality to some extent) and this type of non existence being -1 (something that doesnt exist to a point where even basic non existence to too much of a value/it removes itself from reality). you could then also have some lesser/different type for paradoxiacal non existence, so you dont need that *.

That's at least my take on that

I think you are misunderstanding the current standards in that respect (or at least what the page states, the practical standards are all over the place). What the page says is that "Such entities are typically presented as primordial voids or pure emptiness, or any abstract state which precedes or opposes the state of existence on all levels."

In other words, the page gives an example for how an entity of that types is frequently portrayed. That example is, however, not a sufficient criteria for gaining the type. To get the type, by the current page, you need to fulfil all the criteria listed i.e. have nonexistence at a conceptual level, defy the most basic logical principles and be in a state neither 1 or 0.

Mind you, if you exist as a -1 state, that is truly such in a fashion that it can't be classified as just 0 anymore (i.e. truly different from just nonexistence), it would meet the not 1 nor 0 criteria, right?

I suppose I could move the *. Would need to rewrite the types a bit then. Something like:

Nonexistent Physiology​

Summary​

Nonexistent Physiology refers to the ability to lack certain aspects of ones existence, to paradoxically 'exist', yet lack any identifiable traits of existence, or exist outside of a particular scope of 'existence'. While true nonexistence in the philosophical sense is impossible to prove, lesser forms of the idea appear often in fiction. Characters of this nature often exist as something beyond the normal scope of the physical and metaphysical worlds, instead existing as an idea or other unconventional state.

The physical body of every character with this ability has to be nonexistent. That means that users virtually always are incorporeal. Incorporeality alone, however, is not enough. The character has to additionally have at least one combination of the following types.

Types​

Nature of Nothingness​

In which fashion characters are nonexistent in the aspects in which they are:

1. Material Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a conventional sense. In terms of binary, this would be a 0, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0. In simple terms that means that the characters simply lack the aspect, in the same way that a stone lacks a soul.
2. Idealistic Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence. Characters of this type often have some low degree of Transduality due to their lack of binary existence. Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence.
3. Paradoxical Nonexistence: Characters still exist, but paradoxically behave as if they don't when attacked. Equivalently, characters qualify which don't exist, but behave as if they do in some aspect other than their interaction with attacks and abilities. To qualify for this type, a character needs to be stated to be immune to manipulations of the aspects they are nonexistent in due to their nonexistence. An example of that would be a character who is able to think, and hence has a mind, but is stated to be immune to regular mind manipulation as said mind is paradoxically nonexistent in nature. The character doesn't necessarily behave exclusively nonexistent in regard to attacks, but that is the only requirement necessary to gain this type. In terms of binary, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0, this would be part 0 and part 1 simultaneously.

Aspects of Nonexistence​

Which aspects the characters are nonexistent in:

1. Spiritual Nonexistence: These are characters whose soul and/or astral body is nonexistent. They are hence immune to regular Soul Manipulation.
2. Conceptual Nonexistence: These are characters for which one or multiple concepts, that are necessary for their own existence, are nonexistent. They are hence immune to regular manipulation of said concept(s). Which type of concept should be mentioned on the profile.
3. Mental Nonexistence: These are characters whose mind is nonexistent. Characters with this type are hence immune to regular Mind Manipulation and related abilities.
4. Information Nonexistence: These characters whose information are nonexistent. These refers strictly to the type of information that shape reality. (Note: it's agreed that info manip will get types soon, which will make this clearer) They are hence immune to regular Information Manipulation.
5. Plot Nonexistence: These characters plot is nonexistent. They are hence immune to regular Plot Manipulation.
6. Other: These characters lack some other fundamental aspect that would be necessary for a normal being's existence or have a nonexistent one. Examples would include things like lacking a history. They are hence immune to abilities that target that respective aspect. Which aspect should be mentioned on the profile, together with any detail regarding what it makes them immune to.

Note: It are the aspects in which a character is not nonexistent in the common sense, which makes them into a 'living' character. As such, if a character with this power is reduced to a state in which it can't display any properties of something that exists (e.g. becomes unable to take any actions), it is effectively dead/erased. A consequence of that is that it requires feats or special reasoning for a character with this ability to survive the complete erasure of their plane of existence, as one needs to confirm that they are able to still display some existent properties on a different plane of existence.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I feel like type 1 NEP is just Incorporeality or Intangibility (Immaterial) and thus consider it unnecesary (although the same can be said about AE, that is Incorporeality + Reliant Immortality).

Yeah. See the proposal in my last post in that regard. That goes more in the direction of not having Physical Nonexistence as a type, but making physical nonexistence a requirement for having the power at all. I.e. corporeal characters couldn't have NEP anymore.

Type 2 and 4 aren't quite NE in the conventional sense; you can describe them as not existing at spiritual/astral level, but physically/scientifically speaking they pretty much exist, as they very well can be tangible and perceptible. And btw, how do we treat imperceptibility as one NE trait? One may say that if it can be perceived, even if can't be touched, one can't really say it does not exist.

Type 2 and 4 would/could be combined with other things. Having Physical and Spiritual Nonexistence can be said to be Nonexistent on a broader level. Things with just Spiritual Nonexistence can scientifically exist, yeah. That's not a problem in itself, but when we make Physical Nonexistence mandatory.

I don't think imperceptibility would be a NEP trait in itself? Something nonexistent could be imperceptable, but not necessarily. Other way around something imperceptible could be so due to being nonexistent... but it could also just be something that by other means escapes perception. LIke invisibility and stuff...

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah. See the proposal in my last post in that regard. That goes more in the direction of not having Physical Nonexistence as a type, but making physical nonexistence a requirement for having the power at all. I.e. corporeal characters couldn't have NEP anymore.

Ok, I understand that simply not having a body wouldn't qualify as NEP, even if its stated something between "nonexistent body". I had the feeling this was already mandatory with the previous version of NEP.

I don't think imperceptibility would be a NEP trait in itself? Something nonexistent could be imperceptable, but not necessarily. Other way around something imperceptible could be so due to being nonexistent... but it could also just be something that by other means escapes perception. LIke invisibility and stuff...

Then I believe being imperceptible or not is a factor that chnage whenever someone have NEP or not, right? In the similar way, powers such ESP are no longer needed to perceive a being with NEP.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Then I believe being imperceptible or not is a factor that chnage whenever someone have NEP or not, right? In the similar way, powers such ESP are no longer needed to perceive a being with NEP.

A character with NEP can potentially be perceptible, yes. It would be of the paradoxical nonexistence type then, as it displays both existent and nonexistent properties simultaneously.

 

[Lou_change]

This is interesting I disagree with mental and spiritual nonexistence as that is just not having a mind or soul. Lacking a mind is pretty confusing lots of interpretations while lacking a soul is an incredibly common trait that we are changing from a resistance to soul manipulation to a include a second power and we don't even have a tag to make it easier so I always thought being soulless should be it's own power.
Physical nonexistence several powers already fit the bill.

Also I feel like explain something if nonexistence existence other than 3 and 5
Are the binary equivalent of 0 if existence is 1.
And 3 and 5 are less than that some how.
Where does someone whose existence is -2, or J for example in that their existence is fundamentally different then 1 but they exist. Like characters with only 2 dimensions they lack an existing dimension or exist where fundamental laws in worlds like ours are different or not relevant. Characters whose existence is defined by absents empty spaces, lost memories, spent time, and holes.

 

[DontTalkDT]

This is interesting I disagree with mental and spiritual nonexistence as that is just not having a mind or soul. Lacking a mind is pretty confusing lots of interpretations while lacking a soul is an incredibly common trait that we are changing from a resistance to soul manipulation to a include a second power and we don't even have a tag to make it easier so I always thought being soulless should be it's own power.
Physical nonexistence several powers already fit the bill.

Nonexistent body is just not having a body, nonexistent concept is just not having a concept... Nonexistent physiology is just not having a physiology. The power is all about lacking things in various degrees. Don't see why soul and mind wouldn't be one of the degrees.

Also, an obligatory reminder to look at the new proposal at the end of the OP. You can't have only mental nonexistence anymore. You need to have at least physical nonexistence in addition to it.

Also I feel like explain something if nonexistence existence other than 3 and 5
Are the binary equivalent of 0 if existence is 1.
And 3 and 5 are less than that some how.
Where does someone whose existence is -2, or J for example in that their existence is fundamentally different then 1 but they exist. Like characters with only 2 dimensions they lack an existing dimension or exist where fundamental laws in worlds like ours are different or not relevant. Characters whose existence is defined by absents empty spaces, lost memories, spent time, and holes.

I understood nothing of what you wrote there.

 

[Lou_change]

I understood nothing of what you wrote there.

Basically imagine one being that exists same as us and something that lacks an inherent trait and replaced it with something if say a lifeform was made from silicon even if it looked and acted as a human it wouldn't be human do to the fundamental difference image that but with the law that every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction was interactions don't have opposites. Or Alright so our universe has 4 fundamental forces 3 electric magnetic energy, strong interaction, and weak interaction have particles controlling them gravity the fourth and weakest is the bending of space lacking a physical equivalent as such if a universe had gravity as a particle and the other three lack physical forms they would be so different that feats would be required to prove certain interactions would still work.

 

[Elizhaa]

I aim to reply tomorrow on my views since I was busy lately.

 

[RatherClueless]

bump

 

[Elizhaa]

I think I can see the points or the changes; I am not really against the updated proposals. I want to ask for the types, the types are only from Aspects of Nonexistence because I think there is ambiguity if they are both from Aspects of Nonexistence and Nature of Nothingness?

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

Will this affect characters no longer having NE if they are stated to be an infinite cosmic being.

 

[Vietthai96]

For the record, i'm neutral, it is depend on perspective when it come to something as Non Existence. But again i have some opinion toward this if this get accepted:
1. What will happen to all current Type 1 characters that use Void as proof for their NEP status
2. I want all characters that is AI and Robots or similar doesn't have NEP, cuz by default those are beings that doesn't need Soul or Mental to exist or be considered as existent. Thus lack those things doesn't mean non existent. Candidate qualified for NEP is people lack what needed for them to exist but somehow still exist, for example human by default have soul and mental as part of their existence and require them to exist normally, thus a human character lack soul or mental or both but still exist is qualify for NEP. Except case by case situation like a verse specific about Robot need soul or mental to exist thus that robot lack them is qualify for NEP, other than that, NO.

Well this is my opinion if this get accepted. Your thought @DontTalkDT ????

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I'm in agreement with the new updated proposal as it better improves specifics for NEP and it pretty much answers the same question I have that Ultima pointed out on the first one proposed.
Although my little concern right now is the formatting for this ability if they both have aspect and nature of nonexistence.

 

[Lilixa]

For the record, i'm neutral, it is depend on perspective when it come to something as Non Existence. But again i have some opinion toward this if this get accepted:
1. What will happen to all current Type 1 characters that use Void as proof for their NEP status
2. I want all characters that is AI and Robots or similar doesn't have NEP, cuz by default those are beings that doesn't need Soul or Mental to exist or be considered as existent. Thus lack those things doesn't mean non existent. Candidate qualified for NEP is people lack what needed for them to exist but somehow still exist, for example human by default have soul and mental as part of their existence and require them to exist normally, thus a human character lack soul or mental or both but still exist is qualify for NEP. Except case by case situation like a verse specific about Robot need soul or mental to exist thus that robot lack them is qualify for NEP, other than that, NO.

Well this is my opinion if this get accepted. Your thought @DontTalkDT ????

so it requires paradoxical statement ? rather than X lacking souls so X has NEP.

 

[Vietthai96]

so it requires paradoxical statement ? rather than X lacking souls so X has NEP.

For being like Robot or AI, they are by default doesn't have and need a soul or mind (unless the verse state otherwise which is case by case), thus those character should not have NEP because they doesn't lack anything that needed for their existence. Human by default have soul and mind (unless the verse say otherwise thus case by case), so if they lack them but can still exist then they have NEP, well this is for the new NEP

 

[ThanatosX]

I agree with the proposal. At the moment, NEP is a vague power with vague uses, so I support a revision for improving the ability.
The suddivision in the Types proposed should help get a better understanding of what the character have of "Nonexistent" and specify what advantages this gives, limiting in the meanwhile possible misunderstandings.
I also agree with Vietthai96, things like robots should just get Inorganic Physiology and nothing else considering that they normally don't have minds or souls.

 

[Antoniofer]

Robot no longer would qualify as NEP since, as for the most recent update of the draft, to qualify as NEP one need to be incorporeal. And although AIs do not tend to have a body, they aren't non-physicals, as they are signals or bunch of digital data, something generally made of electrons and such.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I think I can see the points or the changes; I am not really against the updated proposals. I want to ask for the types, the types are only from Aspects of Nonexistence because I think there is ambiguity if they are both from Aspects of Nonexistence and Nature of Nothingness?

Current intention is thatwe always use both. So one always first mentions which nature of the nothingness the character is has and then in which aspects it is nothing. (Like we do for Accelerated Development)

E.g. Hatou is physically nonexistent and in her weird probability aspect. She is nonexistent in the normal fashion (i.e. she simply lacks these things).
So she would get "NEP (Type 1; Type 6)" or with the names written out and justification "NEP (Material Nonexistence; Other. Is neither a wave nor a particle nor even a probability density)".

Will this affect characters no longer having NE if they are stated to be an infinite cosmic being.

I see no correlation between having NE and being an infinite cosmic being. Like, neither by current standards nor by the proposed future standards.

For the record, i'm neutral, it is depend on perspective when it come to something as Non Existence. But again i have some opinion toward this if this get accepted:
1. What will happen to all current Type 1 characters that use Void as proof for their NEP status
2. I want all characters that is AI and Robots or similar doesn't have NEP, cuz by default those are beings that doesn't need Soul or Mental to exist or be considered as existent. Thus lack those things doesn't mean non existent. Candidate qualified for NEP is people lack what needed for them to exist but somehow still exist, for example human by default have soul and mental as part of their existence and require them to exist normally, thus a human character lack soul or mental or both but still exist is qualify for NEP. Except case by case situation like a verse specific about Robot need soul or mental to exist thus that robot lack them is qualify for NEP, other than that, NO.

Well this is my opinion if this get accepted. Your thought @DontTalkDT ????

1. What do you mean "use Void"?
2. If I get what you're saying, then in the new proposal (see bottom of the original post if you haven't already) that entire issue is solved by demanding that at least the body is nonexistent (so only incorporeal characters can have NEP). So an AI or robot would need to have a nonexistent/incoporeal body to qualify. If we have a regular robot without a body it would lack body, mind and soul, which IMO would justify NEP.

 

[Lilixa]

For being like Robot or AI, they are by default doesn't have and need a soul or mind (unless the verse state otherwise which is case by case), thus those character should not have NEP because they doesn't lack anything that needed for their existence. Human by default have soul and mind (unless the verse say otherwise thus case by case), so if they lack them but can still exist then they have NEP, well this is for the new NEP

oh I see. As long in the context of the verse stated any beings need souls and mind to exist. but X beings in that verse able to exist without souls and mind.

 

[Lilixa]

So How about abstract beings which predates concept of time and space ? (Concept of time and space is fundamentals things which reality able to exist)

Does those beings would get NEP (Type 2 , Type 2) ?

 

[Antoniofer]

Predating fundamentals laws and such does not make someone nonexistent; Acausality sure, Transdual maybe, but NE is not necessary the case. There's beings that are responsable for the creation of reality and its concepts, but they pretty much exist, even if they are Incorporeal.

 

[Antoniofer]

Honestly, Plot NE sounds like a poetic Acausality, like, the character is no longer part of the plot and is overall free, but will still influence, directly or indirectly, with the main plot.

 

[Orange]

Honestly, Plot NE sounds like a poetic Acausality, like, the character is no longer part of the plot and is overall free, but will still influence, directly or indirectly, with the main plot.

Plot is weird, but I still don't know if my character would qualify.
plot is just RW+ 4th wall.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

We can remove Type 1, I suppose. I would suggest to leave a note that one should list incorporeality instead of that then, though. Just so that we don't get people listing NEP for NEP that can not be proven to go further than Type 1. That's basically why I included it: To not have endless debates over whether a nonexistent character has NEP.

Do you have any specific cases of this in mind? Normally, when a character is a ghost, a spirit, or something similar, a verse tends to make it explicitly clear. Something being referred to as "nonexistent" outright would be suggestive of some other state in most cases, unless we assume that such a character would be in a state that's in-between a physical body and a soul/abstract mind, as a default.

But it isn't treated as something distinct. It is still the same type. All it says it that one can qualify in two separate ways. Either not having it in the regular sense or not having it in a paradoxical sense.

Yeah, and I am saying the latter is really the only feasible way in which NEP works as a power, for the reasons I stated above. I could concede on this if I got some concrete examples, though.

Sounds nice on paper, sadly most characters with NEP don't have proof of ontological anything. It's virtually always "x was erased in some fashion, but still exists, so x has NEP."

Any character that is defined as preceding the quality of "existence" already fits the bill for what I've just said, such as, for instance, some void that came before reality, which is something very, very common in fiction. Granted, this part seems to have been solved with the updated proposal already, so I digress.

That would involve reasoning from paradoxes which is a big no no. It's like saying "sure we can't prove omnipotence, but we acknowledge the ability is paradoxical, so we might as well use it anyways". If you can't prove something you don't get to assume it. Feats and specific statements are all we can go by for this.

This is not an analogous situation at all because we don't refrain from using omnipotence in our Tiering System due to the concept being contradictory, which is evident by how we do indeed acknowledge the interpretation that does not involve any such paradoxes in our page for the concept (With this quote coming to mind as a summary of it). Truth be told, the page doesn't exactly go too in-depth on what makes it impossible to prove and I'd rather not speculate and insert my own ideas in here, but given the above it can be assumed to be unrelated to what you said.

Furthermore, I think it's fairly pointless to nitpick cases like this because of how far and wide the ramifications of doing that go, and how they would in principle impact even lower tiers, too. if a spacetime continuum is explicitly reduced to a void of nothingness, which is depicted afterwards as, say, a black scape where things occur and people walk around, I wouldn't say it is fair to say space and time weren't actually destroyed, for example. Much of the things our Tiering System deals with are fundamentally impossible to realistically depict to begin with and as such open to artistic interpretation by the author. Going "No, the verse is just mistaken on what it is talking about" just comes off as very dismissive and condescending due to that, which I think falls short of what we're supposed to be doing here.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Honestly, Plot NE sounds like a poetic Acausality, like, the character is no longer part of the plot and is overall free, but will still influence, directly or indirectly, with the main plot.

I mean, plot and causality aren't exactly the same. Plot can happen without any causal relationship at all and technically it's more of a metafictional thing.

@Ultima_Reality Before I get to any of that, what do you think of the revised proposal at the bottom of the original post?

 

[Malomtek]

I just want to say that "Nonexistence Physiology" has always been the dumbest name for a state of (non)being to begin with, and we should have gone with the much better name "Meontology", if not just folding it into a type of "Abstract Existence" to begin with.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I just want to say that "Nonexistence Physiology" has always been the dumbest name for a state of (non)being to begin with, and we should have gone with the much better name "Meontology", if not just folding it into a type of "Abstract Existence" to begin with.

Fancy and better words but people wouldn't exactly get the idea from the name itself. Nonexistence Physiology as a name is for easier understanding and direct. I kinda dislike using terms that could qualify as jargon as it complicates things imo unless really necessary.

 

[Malomtek]

Fancy and better words but people wouldn't exactly get the idea from the name itself. Nonexistence Physiology as a name is for easier understanding and direct. I kinda dislike using terms that could qualify as jargon as it complicates things imo unless really necessary.

Then just write "Nonexistent Ontology" or "Nonbeing" or whatever.

Because "nonexistence" is inherently nonphysical in nature, the term "Nonexistence Physiology" is an objectively meaningless phrase, and it really derives from Superpower Wiki's weird insistence on describing fundamentally nonphysical/metaphysical/abstract states of being as "physiologies" when they're far better described as "ontologies".

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

While a neat suggestion, I believe we go more for an easy understanding approach for the casual visitor. Nonexistent Physiology, indeed, states right there what is all about in the easiest way possible. That's more than enough.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

Current intention is thatwe always use both. So one always first mentions which nature of the nothingness the character is has and then in which aspects it is nothing. (Like we do for Accelerated Development)

E.g. Hatou is physically nonexistent and in her weird probability aspect. She is nonexistent in the normal fashion (i.e. she simply lacks these things).
So she would get "NEP (Type 1; Type 6)" or with the names written out and justification "NEP (Material Nonexistence; Other. Is neither a wave nor a particle nor even a probability density)".

I see no correlation between having NE and being an infinite cosmic being. Like, neither by current standards nor by the proposed future standards.

1. What do you mean "use Void"?
2. If I get what you're saying, then in the new proposal (see bottom of the original post if you haven't already) that entire issue is solved by demanding that at least the body is nonexistent (so only incorporeal characters can have NEP). So an AI or robot would need to have a nonexistent/incoporeal body to qualify. If we have a regular robot without a body it would lack body, mind and soul, which IMO would justify NEP.

**** I meant Infinite Cosmic NON Being

 

[Theglassman12]

Ok I have a few questions regarding this.

How exactly is this supposed to look with the 3 and 6 types of NEP on the profiles? I’m not following how this is supposed to work.

So what’s supposed to be better here? idealistic of Paradoxical NEP because this part I’m also lost on

is there any examples of Plot nonexistence we have in fiction? Unless there’s a lot of examples of this I don’t really see how this needs a separate type when this seems like an Other category.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

How exactly is this supposed to look with the 3 and 6 types of NEP on the profiles? I’m not following how this is supposed to work.

Base on his reply

E.g. Hatou is physically nonexistent and in her weird probability aspect. She is nonexistent in the normal fashion (i.e. she simply lacks these things).
So she would get "NEP (Type 1; Type 6)" or with the names written out and justification "NEP (Material Nonexistence; Other. Is neither a wave nor a particle nor even a probability density)".
it should look something like this

Variations I can think off​

Nonexistent Physiology (Type 1; Type 2; [insert Explanation] )
or
Material Nonexistence (Type 2; [insert Explanation] )
or
Nonexistent Physiology (Material nonexistence; Conceptual Nonexistence; [insert Explanation] )

multiple types being will probably be like this​

Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2 and 3; Type 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5; [insert Explanation] )

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

Base on his reply

Variations I can think off​

Nonexistent Physiology (Type 1; Type 2; [insert Explanation] )
or
Material Nonexistence (Type 2; [insert Explanation] )
or
Nonexistent Physiology (Material nonexistence; Conceptual Nonexistence; [insert Explanation] )

multiple types being will probably be like this​

Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2 and 3; Type 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5; [insert Explanation] )

So where would Infinite Cosmic Non Beings would go in those Catagorys

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

So where would Infinite Cosmic Non Beings would go in those Catagorys

I don't get what you mean by that.
I'm just giving possible example formats for the abilities if changes were applied

 

[DontTalkDT]

How exactly is this supposed to look with the 3 and 6 types of NEP on the profiles? I’m not following how this is supposed to work.

If you say type 3 and type 6, do you mean Paradoxical Nonexistence and Others? If so it is "Nonexistent Physiology (Type 3; Type 6 [Explanation])". If you mean mental nonexistence and Others, then you would need to still specify the Nature of Nothingness. If you have Material Nonexistent for example we would have "Nonexistent Physiology (Type 1; Type 3 & 6 [Explanation])". So the idea is that the formatting is "Nonexistent Physiology ([Types of Nothingness]; [Aspects of Nonexistence] [Explanations])"

Alternatively, you could just write out the names. It just needs to be clear what you mean, somehow.

So what’s supposed to be better here?

It specifies in which aspects one is nonexistent in. That, for a start, makes it more clear what needs to be done to gain the ability and the specific types. It also makes it much more clear what the ability does for characters.

The current page says that character is nonexistent, but not which abilities would be assumed to work or not work against the character due to that. This page does.
It, in particular, solves a long-running problem where characters with NEP were assumed immune to abilities due to being vaguely nonexistent or nonexistent in a manner unrelated to the attacking ability. So it aims to reduce the NLF's born from the vagueness of the current page.

So, for example, if you look at the Hatou example in the original post: With the current page you have no idea whether or not soul manipulation could affect her, because her nonexistence Type 1 might just make it so that it doesn't. With the new page it becomes clear that Hatou can be assumed to be affected by soul manipulation, since she doesn't have the spiritual nonexistence type.

idealistic of Paradoxical NEP because this part I’m also lost on

Idealistic Nonexistence is the essentially same thing that the current Type 2 is. The only difference is that current type 2 demands conceptual nonexistence in addition to what Idealistic Nonexistence in the new proposal demands. That demand isn't in the new proposal, as we have Conceptual Nothingness as separate type that can be combined with it. So basically, current NEP Type 2 is in the new proposal the same as NEP (Type 2; Type 2).

Paradoxical NEP is for characters who in some respect are nonexistent and existent at once. Or partially nonexistent. E.g. a character whose mind is nonexistent, but who can still think and be sentient. If you can think, you have a mind. However, fiction might say that your mind doesn't exist despite that (and hence can't be mind haxed). In that case, you have Paradoxical Nonexistence of the mind. (Type 3; Type 3)

is there any examples of Plot nonexistence we have in fiction? Unless there’s a lot of examples of this I don’t really see how this needs a separate type when this seems like an Other category.

I think I have seen a few, but I don't remember who. Personally, I'm neutral on the issue.

So where would Infinite Cosmic Non Beings would go in those Catagorys

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. Being cosmic or being infinite have no influence on this ability in any case.

 

[Lou_change]

Which can Void Manipulation interact with.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Which can Void Manipulation interact with.

Depends entirely on the feats it has.

 

[Regidian]

If we have a character that is tell /show that nothing can hit/affect him (in a verse where many character can affect pretty much everything) except a weapon mean to kill something that don't exist, will we just list all ability that shouldn't work because his NEP?

 

[Promestein]

Plot nonexistence should really just be Acausality or resistance or something, not an aspect of nonexistence.

 

[Antoniofer]

As I see, someone "erased from the plot" is like a Higher being getting rid of someone so it can no longer intervine with its story, however the ways of "getting rid" can vary: maybe banished the character from the main universe, or perhaps it made it imperceptible and intangible so no one can interact with it, or the it ended up being killed for good, finishing its story. How you see, there's several ways to erase someone from the plot, and recovering from it may grant different powers depending of the case.