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Sonic the Hedgehog: Super Forms Speed Upgrade

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It's kuching.

You guys said I am overcomplicating things and that it takes too many assumptions and then compared space-time to a piece of gum which is a way bigger oversimplification than my overcomplication.

I don't think them being flung back debunks this, I mean they entered the rift and then they exited later on by being flung back, what's the difference with just flying back?

Also here is what I mean with the 5-D axis thing and I doubt anything that could be used back then to reject upgrades, now suddenly doesn't apply anymore since the revision, since everything got more complicated and it got harder to get an upgrade, not easier.

B4F9E6D6-5254-438C-8977-7FD773A3D853
That being said I think someone should ask Ultima Reality to comment here, cause while I know he is generally busy, I think this is straight up his alleyway and he'd be able to very quickly decide which side is right.
 
This generally means a group of 3+1 universes stacked on top of each other in the 5D axis like how papers are stacked. However, since all of the universes have 0 5D (or actually spatially 4D) size, the length of the multiversal structure is also 0, since even countably infinite * 0 = 0. It's literally explained in the page itself (and in the very picture you added). There's no reason to assume that the Multiverse has a 5D length bigger than 0 without proof that the universes are 4+1 size themselves (which they aren't), or that the universes are some distance apart in the 5D axis (not right next to each other). You just can't assume that it's 5D sized without proof, otherwise Solaris and Everyone else who scale to him would be Low 1-C themselves since they destroyed everything, which includes the multiverse itself
 
Oversimplification is always better than overcomplicanting, irl usualy the simplest awser is the right one, that's even what Occam's razor is about

Shake already asked Ultima

The diference is they flew to Exception, not a random Rift, for the thousand time it's called that only in the wikia, in one direction, yet they flew back in opposite directions to go to each universe, if you were right they would have flow in the same direction
 
@Gilad I always thought of geometrical size as volume and that they still had a length but not a volume and that the distance between 2 points on the 5-D axis is the distance between universes.

@User If universal space-time continua where simple there wouldn't be infinities involved.

All right.

Yeah I know they flew to Exception which is the overlap between universes (which is a rift in my eyes) but I disagree with the overlap being at the 3-D edge of the universe. Why would they have flown in the same direction if I were right, if they both wanted to go to Blaze's dimension they would probably just need to go straight ahead from Sonic's dimension into the Exception and then out on the other side?
 
Because this isn't a cosmology revision, you are bringing a non existant issue here, like If someone said 1 + 1=2 and then to refute it you started to talk about what even is addition and what 1 even is, this is similar what you are doing

Because they weren't flying to Blaze's dimension? You didn't understand, they both were in Sonic's dimension when they flew the same direction to Exception, if you were right when they left they would just go in the same direction to go to each universe back then diferent places altogheter, if they are not on the edge then Blaze/Sonic flew the distance of one universe and another because of they going opposite sides
 
https://youtu.be/BrWYd9dHp1A?t=679

stars/celestial objects arent in the background here around exception like during the travel linked by shake. exception should exist beyond the space in their observable universe due to that location looking like that if it can be physically travelled to in 3-D terms.
 
Well you didn't convince me that it's the edge of the universe and 2 staff disgree so Ultima should probably come here and clarify some stuff, as long as that doesn't happen I don't think you can just apply this.
 
What? Nobody needs to convince you if you have no mew points, that's just a concession by buurden of rejoinder at this point, and Cal's points have been adreesed already, and only he argued for it, nobody said they were applying this
 
@Mephistus I do see some small white dots under and above the Exception.

@Theuser I'm not that difficult to convince. An example of universes merging in another verse being accepted at the edge would be of tremendous help for instance.
 
Cal's points were debunked and, no offense to Elizhaa, he's not only agreeing with points that we're debunked but his opinion doesn't carry much weight in a revision.

Believe me, I tried to get anything other than a green or purple name in on the action and was told they aren't the type of staff to influence revisions. Which I find to be bull but whatever

Also those dots above and under the Exception mean little to nothing when what matters is if there was any on the way to the Exception to prove they flew out of the universe. There was literally no form of light on the way there besides light coming from the universe itself and the sparkles of the Exception. Notice those dots are still within the coloring of the Exception.
 
Hmm yeah in that case Mephistus' point is fine I guess. I mostly had a problem with the assumption that it's the edge automatically but within context it does make sense I guess, still find it weird how there are white dots in the rift itself so I'm neutral. (would still like a clarification from Ultima tho but more cause I'm curious myself)
 
Keep in mind me not responding and you offering rebuttals doesn't mean my arguments were debunked. It just means you've offered a rebuttal. It only becomes debunked if a) I give up, or b) it goes through despite my arguments.
 
@Cal, burden of rejoinder what already make you conced if you don't reply to the refutes, nor only when you give up
 
Pretty sure court systems and debates or even rap battles don't work like that, and that, and while I'm not sure this one exists, that's a last word fallacy. I stopped arguing because we're going in circles. You're saying it's enough evidence, I'm saying it's not. If you want me to continue arguing, I'll sum up all my points in this next paragraph.

It's never said to be at the edge of the universe. That's extrapolation I Ven by unfit evidence. We don't see it on a map (the map given is planetary and even if you wanna say the offscreen argument, that can be billions of lightyears of space), it's never stated to be, and all we get of it is a name. The best evidence we have of it is that the two Supers were flung back to their respective earths from Exception. Which could mean any number of things, but we're extrapolating the high-end for the sake of an upgrade. And even if we want to use the screen transition as an argument, you'd have to also acknowledge that Exception is visible from Sonic's taking-off point on earth. And finally, the "beyond this dimension" quote means little due to it being an eventuality, as they're talking about their future plans.

Sorry, you two. But no quod erat demonstrandum.

This will be my last post on the matter until further notice. Like I said, it's going in circles, so it's best to leave this to others to evaluate the argument. Get a jury on it.
 
Burden of rejoinder is when you don't adress the opponents arguments, I literaly used articles to explain it is used like so, not a last word fallacy, that's a common fallacy you were using by saying you were right without adressing arguments, until now at least
 
I have no idea what you're talking about when you say it's visible from Sonic's Earth, but that's flat out wrong and if it isn't I'd love to see a clip of it. Also the "beyond this dimension" quote is wholly valid when you've offered literally no counter against what we see when they head towards the Exception. Also it doesn't need to be spoonfed to you that it's at the edge/outside of the universe. What we're shown is what we're shown, and your complaints about it being "for the sake of an upgrade" mean nothing otherwise.
 
@Shake.

5:56. Emerges from the same point base Sonic does when he has a similar screen transition. And last time I checked, base Sonic can't fly.

I've offered a major counter in that they didn't do it yet. They said they'd beat Sonic first and then build their Eggman Land beyond this dimension. Did they even start building that EL? No.

And finally, it does. We do need to be spoon fed. If it's as obvious as you're making it out to be, this would've been long accepted. It's not like we haven't calc'd this feat before, and by our best no less (DontTalk). And we're not shown much. I've addressed everything we've been shown.

@User

I don't remember ever saying I was right. I said let others decide because we're being circular.
 
I already told you, them not building it yet doesn't immediately equate that they weren't there already. We're even shown that SS and BB did indeed fly out of their universe and towards the Exception. You can compare it to other transitional scenes if it suits your fancy, but comparisons mean jack when we're shown exactly what the calc assumes to begin with. They left their universe, the scene makes it obvious that that's what's happening.

You wouldn't like to hear what I wanna say about this part lol. Sorry, but I don't necessarily care if it's been calced by another person before when new arguments can be made and I wasn't even there to see it. Like a staff member calcing something so long ago is the be all end all of this situation, eh?

But I agree that we're running in circles. I'm gonna shut up and let this progress.
 
The feat that was calced was rejected for diferent reasons as well, it assumed the objects in the transition were galaxies and it calced using that, and then it was rejected because of the proportion, this is completely diferent
 
> We don't see it on a map (the map given is planetary and even if you wanna say the offscreen argument, that can be billions of lightyears of space), it's never stated to be, and all we get of it is a name

I will reply to this since Shake already adreesed the rest, one, yes the Map isn't only planetary, that's wrong, right in the right edge it goes beyond the Earth and deep into outer space way beyond the planet, two, the map was to show the distortions came from the edge, thus Exception would also be there, Exception doesn't appear in the world map, but the distortions caused by the merge do and they come from the edge, plus again the map goes way beyond just the Earth
 
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