Sonic the Hedgehog: Super Forms Speed Upgrade

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Going to clarify for Spino here, but pointing out another details. Actually the, Rift argument is explained here. The literal definition of rift is a tear, crack, or division. Or in this case, a spatial rift is defined as a Tear in the space-time continuum. So actually, it is sourced.

And now to clarify for others. Most galaxies are not visible from planet Earth. The only one is the Andromeda galaxy, but even that's only visible on rare occasions. Meaning the Rift would have to be really big and possibly big enough to already devour a great deal of the Universe for it to be visible from planet Earth. Also, Rifts are typically absence of light unless there are other bright lights near by. And it's still a massive reach to assume one needs to fly to the edge of the Universe in seconds to reach some tear in space visible from the Earth's atmosphere.

 

[Theuser789]

****, Fandom ate my comment

That's not talking about Exception because the statment was made before it even existed, talking about the merge because of the Sol and Chaos emeralds, which Blaze herself said it had stopped in the last story, so no, not a rift, try again

Since it's not a rift your second paragraph is objectively wrong, and you are the one reaching using cutscenes from the beggining of the game about things that only happened in the end, and awful calcs to support your reaching

Also stop using visible from Earth, it's not a rift so every point is debunked, it's a fictional franchise, the same one where the moon was blow up and yet is intact, that's literaly a non argument

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Exception has always existed as very instant the two universes started merging, it only continued to grow as the game progressed. It was literally explained on the beginning of Blaze's story about he being warped to another dimension. Also, as the space-time rift grows larger, it's often possible for universes to shrink due to space being devoured.

I even looked at the very full transcript in the entire game; and found no source of anything being remotely intergalactic distances away from Earth. Saying, "It's a fictional franchise" is a common buzz term to avoid the question.

 

[Theuser789]

No, it has not, at all, as I said Tails is talking about the Sol and Chaos Emeralds merge, which Blaze said it had stopped in the Extra Zone, Blaze got warped because of the Eggmen and the Sol emeralds, that doesn't prove a rift

Funny you complain about how there's no "source" of being stated being far away yet you say "the universes might be smaller" without any source as well, so don't talk about buzz words, they don't say it because the people who made the game aren't nerds explaining every single thing to please us, and I am not avoinding any question, because it being visible from Earth is not a argument because you can't compare real life to fiction about things that didn't even happen in real life, so a non argument that IS extremely reaching to disprove this feat

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

And the dimensions are merging, which is the reason the characters are 2-C to begin with. She was warped which shows that it's not an illogical consideration to suggest they got warped. And they warped back to their original timelines passively, and not like they physically moved that fast back to their worlds in the end.

Complete exaggeration what how I'm talking. My voice has been extremely chill throughout this thread. Clarifying information and details isn't "Complaining". Much less, I simply argued as I have never done what you claimed based on attitude.

It really isn't reaching when the very plot of the entire game is the dimensions getting merged and on the verse of ceasing to exist unless Egg Salamander gets stopped. Spino even asked for more clarification and agreed that the feat doesn't appear sufficient despite the details he's been hearing. But there's a few on the against where he mentions he's unsure about how Rifts or Cross-Universal mergings work.

But still, considering this is a controversial feat, it is best if someone like DontTalkDT, or Dargoo Faust takes a look and evaluates it. I have contacted them via message walls.

 

[AlexZiggy]

@Shake Yeah you're right. I was just trying to illustrate the point as to why visuals mattered in this case. So my bad there, I really have to stop going off of what I remember abiut the cutscenes. Regardless, I just feel like there is more supporting the "for" then the "against", honestly. I feel like it actually makes more assumptions and relies on a more shaky foundation to build an argument which isn't necessarily supported by the context given.

 

[Theuser789]

Yeah, but by the Sol and Chaos Emeralds, also no, the "warped" thing is just no, first thing first Blaze was in her base form and went there against her will, however they flew there, and on their will, and Blaze knew how to Control their emeralds, so no, they weren't warped there, complete unfounded assumption

What? Unironicaly what? I was arguing against your double standards, not your attitude

Dude, Spino straight up said he side "for" had better arguments than ours, and disagreed with several of your points, including the rift and warped arguments, don't twust his basic wordind, also no, the Egg Salamender was imvloved only on the final story, that isn't the plot of Rush at all, the plot is the Sol and Chaos Emeralds being polars and learning how to control them

Call however you like

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with DDM.

 

[ShakeResounding]

It's not like that agreement means much. I can fetch a few people to agree with me too, doesn't mean my point is any more valid if they're wrong.

Hell, Spino even said that the "For" side made more sense between the two albeit after he called the pro side questionable as well, just less so

 

[Antvasima]

Both sides seem to have pretty terrible arguments that either make no sense or are too vague, especially the "Against" side. Despite the "For" side having slightly better arguments, I feel like the evidence is not sufficient enough, and we should probably use lower assumptions for the feat. Although if there is more evidence for "For", feel free to correct me as I am not knowledgeable about this verse/feat at all.

This makes sense to me.

 

[Antvasima]

But still, considering this is a controversial feat, it is best if someone like DontTalkDT, or Dargoo Faust takes a look and evaluates it. I have contacted them via message walls.

Thanks, although it is unlikely that they will check through 400+ posts. Perhaps you could write a helpful easy to understand summary for them to take a look at?

 

[Theuser789]

There's already one right at the OP

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Bump.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

You should ask for input from some more VS Battles Staff members.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I have no idea of the franchise and obviously didn't read most of the posts, so let me start somewhere: Is the universe confirmed to have edges?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The universe isn't really confirmed to have edges, but to give a summary of what the OP is trying to propose.

There is a statement about Eggman building his own dream world beyond this dimension which is where the final battle takes place is a place called Exception.

A notable plot point and this is basically the combined might of the Chaos Emeralds and Sol Emeralds' feat is that they're merging two space-time continuums into one. And was eventually going to destroy both of them. There is a Tear in the space-time continuum explained here.

What the blog is basically trying to say is that "Traveling outside this dimension" during a time period in which two Space-Time Continuums are being merged has flying from Earth to the Edge of the Observable Universe being the default assumption for feats like this. And other details are basically that when two timelines merge, it essentially becomes a quilted multiverse.

I gave explanations about having a 5th dimension or 4th spatial dimension that separates two space-time continuums are often depicted as unknown and not always greater than the radius of the observable universe. But when the 4-dimensional is being closed, it seems claimed that flying from Earth to the edge of the universe to reach the area outside the dimension is the requirement.

The Sonic wiki does described Exception or Final Zone as a rift that exists due to the merging of Sonic and Blaze's dimensions respectively. There were claims about that coming from a fan wiki and being unsourced, but I explained that "The Tear in the space-time continuum statement" is what classifies that. Other things they've been trying to say is that the "Fact that the background is pitch black means they would have to have left the observable universe." There are claims that the tear isn't Exception, but there aren't another other explanations for what Exception is other than the vague "Outside this dimension" statement.

Feat happens here for reference. And I personally still believe the proposed upgrade is unjustified for reasons both me and others explained. I hope I explained the situation on both sides.

 

[Antvasima]

Medeus seems to make sense to me.

 

[Theuser789]

DDM, there's already a summary right at the OP, you don't need to make one, especialy since your "summary" is just focused on your arguments

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I know that there's a summary on the OP, but it's not really focused on either side. I was just trying to clarify details explained below. And honestly, the OP wasn't any less "Neutral" than the way I explained it. Only the last statement was my opinion, but was basically just politely asking DontTalk what his thoughts where.

 

[Theuser789]

>A notable plot point and this is basically Egg Salamander's feat is that he's merging two space-time continuums into one. And was eventually going to destroy both of them. There is a Tear in the space-time continuum explained here.

Objectively wrong, the Egg Salamender wasn't even build when that was happening, the feat comes from the Chaos Emeralds and the Sol emeralds reacting to each other, the "tear" is talking about that, and not Exception and you already got debunked on that, be imparcial like the OP summary if you are making one

 

[Theuser789]

I know that there's a summary on the OP, but it's not really focused on either side. I was just trying to clarify details explained below. And honestly, the OP wasn't any less "Neutral" than the way I explained it. Only the last statement was my opinion, but was basically just politely asking DontTalk what his thoughts where.

Of course it's not focused on a side, a OP should just say what happened, not focusing on anything, and no, your summary involved alot of your personal arguments without any of the counters of them, unlike the one in the OP

 

[ShakeResounding]

I have no idea of the franchise and obviously didn't read most of the posts, so let me start somewhere: Is the universe confirmed to have edges?

The universe is confirmed to have edges in the sense that it's confirmed to have an explicit non-infinite size that can be physically entered and exited, so it's safe to say yes. The franchise has elaborated on that in different titles.

 

[Antvasima]

This thread needs to be wrapped up or restarted soon. It already has 425 posts.

 

[ShakeResounding]

If it reaches around 475 replies, I'll restart the thread. Let's be efficent in how we use the remainder of our posts.

 

[00potato]

Just converse by repeatedly editing previous comments.

 

[Theuser789]

Just converse by repeatedly editing previous comments.

I just realized DDM did do that with my debunks, wow

Just because Exception is defined by something vague like "outside this dimension" doesn't mean we should say it's things that are impossible to actualy be, it's not "some people" who say that, it's the game itself

 

[Greenshifter]

Tails went to his lab before it seems so him being able to "see" the Exception doesn't really matter cause he presumably got tech for that. (I'll also edit this post to conserve place if necessary)

 

[Theuser789]

You don't get notifications when someone edits a post, just wait for a new thread

 

[ShakeResounding]

I've created the second thread.

 

[DontTalkDT]

The universe is confirmed to have edges in the sense that it's confirmed to have an explicit non-infinite size that can be physically entered and exited, so it's safe to say yes. The franchise has elaborated on that in different titles.

Non-infinite size means nothing regarding edges. Can I get a source on the entered and exited via 3D movement?

And if you exit it that way where do you go? Hopefully not other universes?

Also, is universe in this case the same as the space-time continuum?