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Son Goku and Fusion Zamasu (Chou) Resistance Removal

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Whis is probably wrong because there are countless examples of his statement not applying, like Dabura's spit, Akkuman's Devilmite Beam, Ginyu's Body Change, etc..
 
Whis in that same statement says this is unique to time skip, so other examples don't work here.
 
But he was making a general, catch-all statement. If I can point to like 90% of the examples of hax in the series and prove that Whis's general statement is wrong, why should we apply this?
 
Yeah, a general statement to all abilities like time-skip. None of the examples (in-verse or from a vs debating standpoint) are remotely comparable.
 
When Hit powered up to his full strength, he stated he can stop SSG Goku for a full 0.1 second. But Goku was able to turn Blue while the time was stopped.

It was brought up in a CRT.
 
"Unique abilities such as this don't work because they only work on those who have lower power levels"

His statement is about literally every single unique and haxxy ability. But I can look at nearly all hax abilities in the series and prove him wrong.

1. Dabura's spit could work on stronger foes.

2. Guldo's time-stop could work on stronger foes (extra-relevant because it is also a time hax)

3. Ginyu's Body Change specifically targets stronger foes.

4. Akkuman's Devilmite Beam is made for stronger, evil foes.

5. Majin Boo's Candy Beam works on stronger foes.

6. Mafuba works on stronger foes.

7. General Blue's paralysis works on stronger foe.

8. Babidi's Majin Spell is literally meant to trap those who dwarf him in power and make them his servants. It's stated that Vegeta is only able to resist it because of his sheer drive to fight Goku (thus giving him a resistance to it)

Literally only example I can remember where being stronger is enough to stop someone's hax is Nappa vs. Chiaotzu and it can be just as easily argued he simply has resistance.
 
@AKM

Was full power Hit stated to be stronger than SSJG Goku?

Where?

@Kep "His statement is about literally every single unique and haxxy ability."

That part is just speculation on your part, we don't know what Whis means by unique, only that the mechanics (or weakness in this case) are different than other abilities. You make a contradiction when you compare it to other abilities, but the entire 'unique' part is to differentiate it in the first place.

Basically, there is no contradiction when the statement is taken at face value, and there is no underlying assumption that Whis considers all seven of your examples 'unique abilities' on par or comparable to time skip.

Guldo's time-stop is works on different mechanics (Where it is based on the user holding his breath), considering time-skip works differentily, it is no more easy to accept that this is simply based on power level instead as Whis states.
 
@SD

It was in this thread towards the end.

And it was implied that Hit was stronger. Vegeta, Piccolo, Champa, Beerus and Goku were shocked and Beerus and Champa say that he was holding back this entire time. Hit also said he will only need this to finish Goku. Moreover, Goku also felt the need to go Blue.

The scans are linked to Goku's profile.
 
Can we really say Goku is resistant to it, when the only reason it became less effective against him as a Super Saiyan God, was because Hit was holding back? After he released his full power, Hit stopped the same form entirely, until Goku completely nullified the technique by transforming to a level far beyond Hit.

Hit even says in Chapter 35, time-skip worked as well on Jiren as it did on Goku- it didn't.
 
" After he released his full power, Hit stopped the same form entirely, until Goku completely nullified the technique by transforming to a level far beyond Hit."

The act of transforming when he was completely under time stop to break out of it is enough for resistance.
 
I believe I agree with Kepekely23 then.

Also in regards to SomebodyData saying this is unique to time-skip, Whis also says Hit has the same ability as him, to which he generally refers to it as manipulating time.

And if we were to take Whis's statement as fact, Beerus stated that Super Saiyan Goku had Hit completely outclassed in power, yet he was able to time-skip Goku in his God form.
 
@AKM Looking at the CRT, the inly person who agreed was Dark. That's all, and it wasn't even the topic of the CRT.

We din't actually know if it stopped Goku completely given the next moment Hit looks at Goku he is SSJB.

@Ivory and Nedge just like I told Kep, he is assuming Whis considers all the other techniques unique or to work under the same mechnaisms, making an unfounded contradiction when there isn't.

@Callsign what? The entire issue was that the technique stopped working on Goku, not that SSJG Goku was affected.
 
Goku dashes toward Hit as SSG, Hit stopped him in front of his eyes and after he sidesteps he sees that Goku has transformed. We can also see that the time was stopped due to the effects drawn in the background. And then he says that Hit's time stop has been broken.

So even when Goku should've been stopped for a full 0.1 second, he was able to transform into Blue while the time was stopped. That's some resistance.
 
https://www9.mangafreak.net/Read1_Dragon_Ball_Super_13

Actually we don't see him as a SSJG during timestop at all, only before it. And even as he lunged towards Hit he is not shown in SSJG. (Page 24)

Also this is manga, so you read left to right, meaning immediately after he time stops he notices Goku was SSJB and then he sidesteps.
 
He is shown in SSG when he lunged towards Hit. And Hit stops him right in front of his eyes so he would have noticed if he changed forms before it.

Also manga is supposed to be read from right to left. He sidestepped first and then noticed Goku has turned Blue.
 
The problem is that the statement is clearly not referring to just time-related abilities. He is making a general statement about hax abilities - and he is wrong.

Also, why would Guldo triggering his time hax by breath make it any different in functionality? It's still a time-related ability. Now you're making distinctions that aren't suggested anywhere.
 
I also agree that it is a weakness to Hit's ability.

And as for general Hax, we don't know exactly what he means by that statement, and we all honestly know that DB treats hax as bypassable via sheer AP.

But since the latter won't get accepted, sematics like how he doesn't say hax in general can be used to say that we don't know what other abilities it aplies to.
 
> And as for general Hax, we don't know exactly what he means by that statement, and we all honestly know that DB treats hax as bypassable via sheer AP.

No. I posted seven examples proving this common misconception is inaccurate, against one example suggesting otherwise.
 
But since the latter won't get accepted, sematics like how he doesn't say hax in general can be used to say that we don't know what other abilities it aplies to.

Should try to counter this, since this is the actual argument against yours.
 
Saying that he is reffering to hax in general and as such is wrong is not an argument you can use is what I am saying. He never says what other kinds of abilities he means, so beyond Hit's time stop, using other abilities to disprove his claim isn't realy aplicable.
 
"Unique abilities like this only work when the opponent is weaker".

That's a general statement about unique abilities. But hey, if you want to go the time stop route, he is still wrong because Guldo's time-stop doesn't work that way.
 
Why would you assume Guldo's time-stop is part of that statement tough? He could mean literally anything by it, and saying he is plain wrong instead of Chou either retconning the stuff or him meaning something else seems unbased.

Pretty sure we don't disregard explanations because they retcon things anyways.
 
@AKM the last two panels of Goku lunging don't show him as a SSJG

@Kep again, that is your assumption. We don't know what Whis considers unique in this case, and your interpertation is contradicted by your examples.

There is also the retcon possibility Ricsi pointed out.
 
My interpretaton is that Whis's wrong because the feats suggest as much. Why should we assume one statement retcons so many feats? It's easier to say Whis is just wrong. If this was Zuno, it'd be more reliable.

Also, what is the supposed distinction between Guldo's time-stop and Hit's time-skip if your interpretation is that he's referring solely to time-stop abilities?
 
That's not the issue.

Your interpertation relies on Whis considering all hax to be as unique as Hit's technique when that was never even implied and that Hit's hax doesn't just work on different mechanics (Again pointing out Guldo's time hax has a diffferent basis [Breath vs ki])

I never said that its soley time manip. I'm saying we don't know what he means exactly, only that its uniqie. Therefore we shouldn't assume it automatically is in the same league as previous abilities.
 
It is? Pretty sure the manga was based on something unlike Hit's time stop, whether it was breath or psychic powers.
 
I also agree with removing it.

There is no way of telling what other abilities are covered by Whis' statement. The only one we know for sure if Hit's ability which he is talking about.
 
I don't think Whis regards Hit's technique as anything special.

Even if we use Whis's explanation, Hit's time-skip capabilities extend to 0.1 seconds at maximum power. God Goku was stopped for less time than that, even though Hit was holding back. That is resistance.

The technique not working at all would only be applied to the Blue form.
 
I'm pretty sure that being suprised that he has the technique shows that its special amoung mortals at the very least, or unique in comparsion to other abilities.

Because its the technique's weakness, not resistance.

You implying immunity or...?
 
Because, as Whis pointed out, that's the weakness of the ability.
 
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