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Minor Zeno DBS ability removal

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Vietthai96

Vietthai96

He/Him
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Anyway, i have been neglecting DB Canon for too long. now without further ado

From Zen'ō profile
Immortality [Type 2 & 3] & Regeneration Negation (Mid-Godly, permanently erased[1] an Immortal Zamasu who wouldn’t die from Power of Destruction's erasure power)
Click to expand...
There is many things wrong with this
  1. Regeneration Negation was accepted in this thread is for Future Trunks because his Sword of Hope feat. The thing is, if Trunks already negated Fusion Zamasu's regeneration, why Zeno also again negate Fusion Zamasu's regeneration, it make no sense and is contradictory which implied Trunks didn't negate Fusion Zamasu's regeneration at all, so either Trunks negate or Zeno negate, we can't have both because it is contradictory. However Zeno's negation should be removed, why, we will come to point 2
  2. Zeno didn't erase Fusion Zamasu, the "one" he erased is Infinite Zamasu who didn't have regeneration, Infinite Zamasu is the result of Future Trunks feat with his Sword of Hope, the abstract will/thought of Zamasu, this also support that Trunks did negate Fusion Zamasu, as after he sliced Zamasu, what leftover is only a will, a thought of Zamasu. It also reflected on Infinite Zamasu tabber/key, as "he" in this state possesses "his" own set of abilities and didn't have any previous abilities from Fusion Zamasu, which includes Regeneration
  3. Well that enough right??, however, for the sake of discussion, and for better supporting my reason to remove this on Zen'õ profile, i will assume that point 1 & 2 is non-existent for a time being and we will talking about Zen'õ's EE, well we knows he capable of erasing timeline/space-time itself, well in order to come back from this level of erasure one need History-type High-Godly Regeneration. Zamasu at best has Mid-Godly, which can't cover High-Godly. So what does that mean, that mean Zen'õ didn't negate any regeneration, his EE is above Zamasu's regeneration paygrade, he simply can't come back with that kind of regenration when facing Zen'õ EE level, so no negation here, simple
Anyway, wrap up, Zen'õ's immortality and regeneration negation is simply wrong on many levels, should be removed

Agree: @LordGriffin1000 @LephyrTheRevanchist @Damage3245 @Padaruyos @segetero @Boyinluv2002 @Quantu @Kroneii1 @Fezzih_007 @SwordLegendz01 @Hasty12345 @BestMGQScalerEver @TheGodOfICE777 @Reiner @AguilaR202

Neutral: @Excel616

Disagree: @Borutonarutodebunked @LuffyRuffy46307
 
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Gasper said:
Why is High Godly Regeneration needed for Regeneration negation?
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Quantu said:
You need High Godly to come back from Zen'ō timeline erasure, so hypothetically speaking Zamasu's regeneration (which he doesn't even have in his infinite form but let's say he does) wasn't negated but simply bypassed by superior erasure.
Click to expand...
simply this, Mid-Godly simply can't regen from Zeno EE level which is at history level of erasure, which require History-type High Godly regen to comeback
 
Actually, i just re-read the thread to apply regen neg and realized it is only for Trunks an to an extent, Goku, who add this to Zeno profile????
 
Put me on disagree

Even if fusion zamasu lost that immortality, its because not even hakai could kill fusion zamasu but zenos erasure could, unless you are saying hakai>zeno erasure. Also stated in his profile that zeno can erase gods of destruction, who can resist their own hakai which is mid-godly, so zeno's erasure should be has potent if not more potent than energy of destruction. Which mean zeno should keep his mid-godly regeneration negation.
Also on a tangent for trunks , it says he has mid-godly regen but he only destroyed zamasu's physical body to the point that that body cannot regenerated (high-mid). That would mean genki energy is on the level of hakai in terms of regeneration negation even if it was never stated nor shown in present or past to destroy the soul (looking at kid buu here)?

Now for infinite zamasu

Trunks even with the genki energy wasn't able to destroy zamasu's will, only his body (with his mid-godly genki energy according to his profile).
This means, that zamasu's mid-godly regeneration still stands, it didn't go away (alteast for his will immortality) or else trunks would have destroyed his will has well. Or Trunks genki couldn't affect zamasu will's in his body. So if hakai can't kill immortal zamasu and trunks genki which has mid-godly regeneration couldn't also kill zamasu (unless you think genki>hakai). It would mean that hakai wouldn't also kill zamasu's will nor infinite zamasu's idea/will but zeno can. So it should stay in both cases.

"Well we knows he capable of erasing timeline/space-time itself, well in order to come back from this level of erasure one need History-type High-Godly Regeneration. Zamasu at best has Mid-Godly, which can't cover High-Godly. So what does that mean, that mean Zen'õ didn't negate any regeneration, his EE is above Zamasu's regeneration paygrade, he simply can't come back with that kind of regenration when facing Zen'õ EE level, so no negation here, simple"

If zeno's erasure his high-godly and fusion zamasu his mid-godly, it means his erasure is more potent than zamasu's regeneration level. Thus he can negate atleast that level of regeneration. It can stay in his profile, has him being to negate regeneration up to that level.
 
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Borutonarutodebunked said:
Even if fusion zamasu lost that immortality, its because not even hakai could kill fusion zamasu but zenos erasure could, unless you are saying hakai>zeno erasure. Also stated in his profile that zeno can erase gods of destruction, who can resist their own hakai which is mid-godly, so zeno's erasure should be has potent if not more potent than energy of destruction. Which mean zeno should keep his mid-godly regeneration negation.
Click to expand...
Zeno's EE > Power of Destruction, sure, but what does Mid-Godly Negation have anything to do this, are you trying to implying that Zeno EE > Power of destruction thus Zeno can neg Mid-Godly??, no lol, that is a faulty logic

Borutonarutodebunked said:
Also on a tangent for trunks , it says he has mid-godly regen but he only destroyed zamasu's physical body to the point that that body cannot regenerated (high-mid).
Click to expand...
What??, Trunks has At least Mid-High, possibly up to Mid-Godly, not outright Mid-Godly

Borutonarutodebunked said:
That would mean genki energy is on the level of hakai in terms of regeneration negation even if it was never stated nor shown in present or past to destroy the soul (looking at kid buu here)?
Click to expand...
what??, hakai didn't have regeneration negation, what the hell you talking about???

Borutonarutodebunked said:
This means, that zamasu's mid-godly regeneration still stands, it didn't go away (alteast for his will immortality) or else trunks would have destroyed his will has well
Click to expand...
1. What Trunks did is only negate his Mid-Godly, what left over is Zamasu's Will/Thought, an abstract aspect of Zamasu, obviously Trunks can't touch this.
2. This require another CRT if you want IZ keeping Mid Godly from his previous Fusion Zamasu state, currently we do what on his profile

But if that is the case, well, remove Trunks regen neg

Borutonarutodebunked said:
Trunks genki couldn't affect zamasu will's in his body. So if hakai can't kill immortal zamasu and trunks genki which has mid-godly regeneration couldn't also kill zamasu (unless you think genki>hakai). It would mean that hakai wouldn't also kill zamasu's will nor infinite zamasu's idea/will but zeno can. So it should stay in both cases.
Click to expand...
this chain of logic isn't even connected together at all. Trunks obviously can't touch Zamasu's Will which is abstract aspect of his being, what left over after Trunks "kill" Fusion Zamasu, Hakai was stated to not be able to kill an immortal Zamasu, but that is Future Zamasu and Fusion Zamasu who possesses regerenation, not Infinite Zamasu, you need proof that Beerus statement also includes or specifically pointed at IZ. all of these argument in't even connected together bruhh

Borutonarutodebunked said:
If zeno's erasure his high-godly and fusion zamasu his mid-godly, it means his erasure is more potent than zamasu's regeneration level. Thus he can negate atleast that level of regeneration. It can stay in his profile, has him being to negate regeneration up to that level.
Click to expand...
EE more potent than regeneration isn't mean regeneration negation, that faulty logic, regeneration negation is a specific-type of power nullification that target and nullify one's regeneration, simply having more potent EE isn't get you regen neg, because you don't negate any regen, just simply your EE is so potent that your opponent's regen can't cover and come back. Again another faulty logic, by this logic of your, everyone who simply have stronger AP than their opponent's durability get durability negation because their AP is more potent than their opponent's durability
 
Vietthai96 said:
Zeno's EE > Power of Destruction, sure, but what does Mid-Godly Negation have anything to do this, are you trying to implying that Zeno EE > Power of destruction thus Zeno can neg Mid-Godly??, no lol, that is a faulty logic


What??, Trunks has At least Mid-High, possibly up to Mid-Godly, not outright Mid-Godly


what??, hakai didn't have regeneration negation, what the hell you talking about???
Click to expand...
You don't understand, Fusion Zamasu gained this regeneration because Beerus' Existential Erasure couldn't do anything to him and Zen'ō's EE can, proving that he can still negate certain regeneration.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
You don't understand, Fusion Zamasu gained this regeneration because Beerus' Existential Erasure couldn't do anything to him and Zen'ō's EE can, proving that he can still negate certain regeneration.
Click to expand...
What the hell??
1. Zeno never EE Fusion Zamasu who has regeneration, he EE'ed Infinite Zamasu
2. Zeno EE > Hakai doesn't mean he has regen neg, his EE is far more fundamental, potent than Hakai which is history level, beyond what Mid-Godly can handle
3. if Zeno negated Fusion Zamasau regen, that mean Trunks never negated Fusion Zamasu regen from the start, a big contradictory thus either Zeno regen neg be removed or Trunks'
 
Vietthai96 said:
What the hell??
1. Zeno never EE Fusion Zamasu who has regeneration, he EE'ed Infinite Zamasu
2. Zeno EE > Hakai doesn't mean he has regen neg, his EE is far more fundamental, potent than Hakai which is history level, beyond what Mid-Godly can handle
3. if Zeno negated Fusion Zamasau regen, that mean Trunks never negated Fusion Zamasu regen from the start, a big contradictory thus either Zeno regen neg be removed or Trunks'
Click to expand...
Where did I mention that Zen'ō erased Zamasu's fusion? You're not reading it wrong, bro? I said that the fact that Zamasu gained this regeneration was because of Beerus with his EE who can't erase him ( That's the only thing you didn't understand there ), but Zen'ō can erase everything, both fusion Zamasu and infinite Zamasu, (in the manga this was demonstrated ), although the anime is much more different, the hakai Lord Beerus can't even affect infinite Zamasu, and Zen'ō can, do you understand what I'm getting at?

Zen'ō should still have this listed on his profile, as only by sealing could Zamasu be finished and Zen'ō's EE, so yes! This is valid.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Zeno's EE > Power of Destruction, sure, but what does Mid-Godly Negation have anything to do this, are you trying to implying that Zeno EE > Power of destruction thus Zeno can neg Mid-Godly??, no lol, that is a faulty logic


What??, Trunks has At least Mid-High, possibly up to Mid-Godly, not outright Mid-Godly


what??, hakai didn't have regeneration negation, what the hell you talking about???


1. What Trunks did is only negate his Mid-Godly, what left over is Zamasu's Will/Thought, an abstract aspect of Zamasu, obviously Trunks can't touch this.
2. This require another CRT if you want IZ keeping Mid Godly from his previous Fusion Zamasu state, currently we do what on his profile

But if that is the case, well, remove Trunks regen neg


this chain of logic isn't even connected together at all. Trunks obviously can't touch Zamasu's Will which is abstract aspect of his being, what left over after Trunks "kill" Fusion Zamasu, Hakai was stated to not be able to kill an immortal Zamasu, but that is Future Zamasu and Fusion Zamasu who possesses regerenation, not Infinite Zamasu, you need proof that Beerus statement also includes or specifically pointed at IZ. all of these argument in't even connected together bruhh


EE more potent than regeneration isn't mean regeneration negation, that faulty logic, regeneration negation is a specific-type of power nullification that target and nullify one's regeneration, simply having more potent EE isn't get you regen neg, because you don't negate any regen, just simply your EE is so potent that your opponent's regen can't cover and come back. Again another faulty logic, by this logic of your, everyone who simply have stronger AP than their opponent's durability get durability negation because their AP is more potent than their opponent's durability
Click to expand...
Zeno's EE > Power of Destruction, sure, but what does Mid-Godly Negation have anything to do this, are you trying to implying that Zeno EE > Power of destruction thus Zeno can neg Mid-Godly??, no lol, that is a faulty logic

Zeno literally has that in his profile for that reason . The rest of your comment doesn't make any sense.

What??, Trunks has At least Mid-High, possibly up to Mid-Godly, not outright Mid-Godly

I know, I'm only referencing the mid-godly part. Please make sure to read context. I literally said I was going on a tangent with the trunks mid-godly. Mid-high is not relevant for that tangent.

what??, hakai didn't have regeneration negation, what the hell you talking about???

Make sure to read instead of replying with stuff such has "???" .That is again in zeno's profile: Regeneration Negation (Mid-Godly, permanently erased[1] an Immortal Zamasu who wouldn’t die from Power of Destruction's erasure power). I'm not saying hakai has that, I'm saying because hakai doesnt work on fusion zamasu, (which is body and soul destruction) meaning he regenerates from body and soul. And zeno's erasure is said in his profile to be more potent than hakai. Thus he can negate zamasu's regeneration. It's in zamasu profile again: Regeneration (Mid-Godly; as an immortal, granted by Super Shenron, Whis stated that the Hakai wouldn't kill him, which has been shown to destroy one's body and soul completely, so they cannot resurrect.

1. What Trunks did is only negate his Mid-Godly, what left over is Zamasu's Will/Thought, an abstract aspect of Zamasu, obviously Trunks can't touch this.
2. This require another CRT if you want IZ keeping Mid Godly from his previous Fusion Zamasu state, currently we do what on his profile

Still in a tangent, I'm not looking for a crt just looking at some reasoning. But...that is why I was going in tangent earlier. How does he get mid-godly regen negation just from destroying zamasu's bodie? that would imply its has potent as hakai to affect the soul? or is it because he destroyed zamasu's bodie to the point he can't regen that bodie despite the fact he can regen from body and soul destruction like hakai? . And the problem with genki, it didn't kill kid buu's soul has he was reincarnated.

this chain of logic isn't even connected together at all. Trunks obviously can't touch Zamasu's Will which is abstract aspect of his being, what left over after Trunks "kill" Fusion Zamasu, Hakai was stated to not be able to kill an immortal Zamasu, but that is Future Zamasu and Fusion Zamasu who possesses regerenation, not Infinite Zamasu, you need proof that Beerus statement also includes or specifically pointed at IZ. all of these argument in't even connected together bruhh

I mean their is a clear shot were him, goku and vegeta do a ki attack and they could interact with zamasu's will but they did no noticeable damage. Meaning even when he can interact with it, he wouldn't be able to do much against this infinite zamasu.
For infinite zamasu, it's because, if trunks has possibly mid-godly regen negation, and hakai is body and soul and fusion zamasu can regen from that body and soul destruction zeno's erasure is more potent then either of them and was necessary to kill infinite zamasu. That would mean besides this tangent , he should atleast keep his current rating.

EE more potent than regeneration isn't mean regeneration negation, that faulty logic, regeneration negation is a specific-type of power nullification that target and nullify one's regeneration, simply having more potent EE isn't get you regen neg, because you don't negate any regen, just simply your EE is so potent that your opponent's regen can't cover and come back.
Again another faulty logic, by this logic of your, everyone who simply have stronger AP than their opponent's durability get durability negation because their AP is more potent than their opponent's durability

That is what's said in zeno's profile and your trying to change it with this CRT. You saying its "faulty logic" with no bases for this claim holds no weight. Your last example is a false equivalent fallacy. How does zeno's erasure being equal if not more potent than hakai who is said to not work on fusion zamasu, not give mid-godly regen negation means it's similar to someone having a higher ap thus negating their opponents durability ? Since when was zeno's erasure and hakai ap based stated in their respective profile?

Even if beerus or trunks was stronger than fusion zamasu, he can always regenerate from body and soul destruction , your example doesnt make sense nor fits this circumstance. If zeno's erasure is more potent/fundamental than either hakai/genki (or equal), he should get/keep regen negation atleast on that level for hakai.

Put me on disagree, for this CRT.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Where did I mention that Zen'ō erased Zamasu's fusion? You're not reading it wrong, bro? I said that the fact that Zamasu gained this regeneration was because of Beerus with his EE who can't erase him ( That's the only thing you didn't understand there ), but Zen'ō can erase everything, both fusion Zamasu and infinite Zamasu, (in the manga this was demonstrated ), although the anime is much more different, the hakai Lord Beerus can't even affect infinite Zamasu, and Zen'ō can, do you understand what I'm getting at?

Zen'ō should still have this listed on his profile, as only by sealing could Zamasu be finished and Zen'ō's EE, so yes! This is valid.
Click to expand...
Again, erase everything mean Zeno has everything now????, why not argue that he has concept erasure and information erasure too. Anyway, again i already said it, his erasure is history level with above Mid-Godly can handle, he didn't negate anything, it is the limitation of Mid-Godly, nothing specific that Zeno can nullify/negate regeneration, we don't give regen neg to everyone who have more potent EE
 
Vietthai96 said:
3. if Zeno negated Fusion Zamasau regen, that mean Trunks never negated Fusion Zamasu regen from the start, a big contradictory thus either Zeno regen neg be removed or Trunks'
Click to expand...
Trunks didn't deny anything, he just cut Zamasu, but Zamasu came back with his immortality and still became an abstract existence, I don't know how he can deny something, since he didn't even finish his task, immortality should still cover his infinite form. So I'm against the removal of Zen'ō's profile, but I agree with the removal of trunks, as he is not shown denying anything, but just cutting.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Trunks didn't deny anything, he just cut Zamasu, but Zamasu came back with his immortality and still became an abstract existence, I don't know how he can deny something, since he didn't even finish his task, immortality should still cover his infinite form. So I'm against the removal of Zen'ō's profile, but I agree with the removal of trunks, as he is not shown denying anything, but just cutting.
Click to expand...
Vietthai96 said:
Again, erase everything mean Zeno has everything now????, why not argue that he has concept erasure and information erasure too. Anyway, again i already said it, his erasure is history level with above Mid-Godly can handle, he didn't negate anything, it is the limitation of Mid-Godly, nothing specific that Zeno can nullify/negate regeneration, we don't give regen neg to everyone who have more potent EE
Click to expand...
My answer answers yours...
 
Agree, regen negation scales to your own level of destruction, you can’t say a character with fundamentally stronger destruction/ EE needs to negate lower tiered regen, Zamasu can only regen from Mid Godly at most he can’t regen from his whole history being destroyed, afaik he lost the timering so he is no longer immune to paradoxes.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Trunks didn't deny anything, he just cut Zamasu, but Zamasu came back with his immortality and still became an abstract existence, I don't know how he can deny something, since he didn't even finish his task, immortality should still cover his infinite form. So I'm against the removal of Zen'ō's profile, but I agree with the removal of trunks, as he is not shown denying anything, but just cutting.
Click to expand...
This is ridiculous, the proof is that Trunks before cutting him he nullified Fusion Zamasu's regeneration after stabbing him with the first strike. In fact, Zamasu was shocked by the energy and couldn't regenerate his wounds like he did before when Trunks also slashed him and Vegito stabbed him.
 
Trunks gets his from negating fused zamasu body regeneration
Zeno gets his from scaling above hakai

Neither should be touched
 
Borutonarutodebunked said:
That is what's said in zeno's profile and your trying to change it with this CRT. You saying its "faulty logic" with no bases for this claim holds no weight. Your last example is a false equivalent fallacy. How does zeno's erasure being equal if not more potent than hakai who is said to not work on fusion zamasu, not give mid-godly regen negation means it's similar to someone having a higher ap thus negating their opponents durability ? Since when was zeno's erasure and hakai ap based stated in their respective profile?
Click to expand...
So you completely ignore what i said, Zeno EE is history erasure which beyond the capability of Mid-Godly, someone with Mid Godly can't return from history erasure, it is the limitation of Mid-Godly, which have nothing to do with Regeneration Negation. The problem is very simple, Zeno didn't negate any regeneration, his EE simply beyond the ability of Mid-Godly thus Zamasu can't return.

And on top of that, IZ didn't even have regeneration in the first place
 
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