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Saitama was actually putting some effort against Boros and he was more surprised against him then Flash.
I'd argue Orochi is faster than Flash too.
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I'd argue Orochi is faster than Flash too.
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Yes, just like there were people who wanted to scale Boros' durability to be superior to Orochi's for taking a casual blow from Saitama, Orochi should be climbing Boros for being able to react to Saitama's attacks, which Boros didn't do.
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The way you said it made me think it was from the guidebook.
While i agree that obviously Boros should be faster than Flashy flash on Meteoric burst at least, with the webcomic event scaling being dropped ( since AG could blitz flashy flash. ) there isn't anything concrete scaling them to eachother.
I'm neutral towards the relativistic Geryuganshoop being dropped, i can see people not wanting it to be used for being Murata's statement and not being acknowledged by one.
But the part about being the "greatest psychic in the universe" was said in a jokingly manner according to people who translated the stream, and if the relativistic tentacle speed thing was dropped Orochi and Boros can just beat him by bruteforcing through his rock tosses without being relativistic, so it would only really scale to Saitama who can already keep up with Flash's relativistic speeds casually, so it's consistent, at least.
While i agree that obviously Boros should be faster than Flashy flash on Meteoric burst at least, with the webcomic event scaling being dropped ( since AG could blitz flashy flash. ) there isn't anything concrete scaling them to eachother.
I'm neutral towards the relativistic Geryuganshoop being dropped, i can see people not wanting it to be used for being Murata's statement and not being acknowledged by one.
But the part about being the "greatest psychic in the universe" was said in a jokingly manner according to people who translated the stream, and if the relativistic tentacle speed thing was dropped Orochi and Boros can just beat him by bruteforcing through his rock tosses without being relativistic, so it would only really scale to Saitama who can already keep up with Flash's relativistic speeds casually, so it's consistent, at least.
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Boros was reacting to Saitama just fine when Saitama was casual in Released Form. It's just when Saitama decides to actually try a little harder after jumping from the moon that it becomes a slaughter.
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Saitama before that didn't even try to attack Boros, he was just standing tanked all Boros' attacks.
Against Orochi, Saitama from the beginning was intent on killing and ending the fight, yet Orochi managed to react to him 2 / 3x.
Against Orochi, Saitama from the beginning was intent on killing and ending the fight, yet Orochi managed to react to him 2 / 3x.
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They are shown moving at comparable speed and dodging / blocking.
in the anime Saitama is actually shown clashign with Boros with like his elbows and forearms on various frames.
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Saitama never, ever attacked Boros outside of his punches and Boros never reacted to him.
Saitama was backing off so Boros would give chase. Boros was throwing the punches, Saitama was blocking them. This is why Boros was drawn punching and Saitama was drawn with his hands open during the flurry-shot at the start of the battle.
Boros is not keeping up with Saitama, Saitama is keeping down for Boros so Boros feels good.
Saitama was backing off so Boros would give chase. Boros was throwing the punches, Saitama was blocking them. This is why Boros was drawn punching and Saitama was drawn with his hands open during the flurry-shot at the start of the battle.
Boros is not keeping up with Saitama, Saitama is keeping down for Boros so Boros feels good.
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You can't ignore the actual scene man.
Also Saitama fighting Boros was still putting more effort than against anyone else.
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We don't use the anime though.
Besides Saitama scaling is shabby, because he usually scales his strength and speed to his enemies, he usually uses enough speed to barely blitz and enough strength to one-shot (K.O if human, explode them if monsters). people who are specially skilled like Flashy flash Garou and Orochi can avoid the blitz with difficulty, while monsters with regen and immortality can avoid the one-shot by suriving a large hole being put through them (Boros, Evil water, Orochi to an extent.)
We see this in Garou's fight, where Garou can only keep up by skill and everytime he increases his speed and AP Saitama increases his own to change things back to status quo. There's no reason to assume Saitama uses relativistic speeds against every monster he fights, if his regular punches don't split the atmosphere every day.
Besides Saitama scaling is shabby, because he usually scales his strength and speed to his enemies, he usually uses enough speed to barely blitz and enough strength to one-shot (K.O if human, explode them if monsters). people who are specially skilled like Flashy flash Garou and Orochi can avoid the blitz with difficulty, while monsters with regen and immortality can avoid the one-shot by suriving a large hole being put through them (Boros, Evil water, Orochi to an extent.)
We see this in Garou's fight, where Garou can only keep up by skill and everytime he increases his speed and AP Saitama increases his own to change things back to status quo. There's no reason to assume Saitama uses relativistic speeds against every monster he fights, if his regular punches don't split the atmosphere every day.
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What have I ignored? I have watched the entire fight frame by frame. Show me these alleged frames where Saitama punched Boros and Boros reacted and blocked.
And that’s debatable. After the fight, when Saitama talks to Genos, he remarks how he DOES NOT EVEN KNOW if Boros was the strongest opponent he faced or not. He just said “maybe he’s the strongest I’ve fought”, but alas, Boros didn’t really leave a big enough impression for Saitama to remember him in current chapters regardless.
And that’s debatable. After the fight, when Saitama talks to Genos, he remarks how he DOES NOT EVEN KNOW if Boros was the strongest opponent he faced or not. He just said “maybe he’s the strongest I’ve fought”, but alas, Boros didn’t really leave a big enough impression for Saitama to remember him in current chapters regardless.
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Saitama called Flashy Flash “kinda fast”. Never said that for Boros. The case is solved. Joking.
To be fair, both Garou and Boros took punches from Saitama without needing to regenerate. Armoured Boros in specifics. But of course, Saitama only gave him a love tap.
To be fair, both Garou and Boros took punches from Saitama without needing to regenerate. Armoured Boros in specifics. But of course, Saitama only gave him a love tap.
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If someone told me they think Flashy flash and Atomic samurai are comparable i would completely agree, if you told me you think Darkshine vs Flash would be a close fight i would agree, but in VSbattles we can only use feats,direct scaling or scaling statements that can't be argued to be "death of author", and as far as i know, until Garou blitzes flash in the Manga (assuming they keep it.) we have nothing concrete by this site's standards to scale Boros to Flashy or Orochi and vice-versa.
Even if it's born from common sense, headcanon is still headcanon.
Even if it's born from common sense, headcanon is still headcanon.
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The only real feat we could compare them is their two “outspeeding their own explosions” feat. Boros made one when he rushed at Saitama after the moon jump, and the many Flashy made with his fights against the ninjas.
But that brings up the issue of it being Boros specifically who made that explosion by kicking off the ground, so of course, it would be a pretty powerful explosion.
But that brings up the issue of it being Boros specifically who made that explosion by kicking off the ground, so of course, it would be a pretty powerful explosion.
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Meteoric Burst is going to Low 6-B.
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based on what
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Commo nsense is fine tho. The problem is that you just used something that isn't common sense (Flashy and Atomic) at all. Flashy is objectively much faster and has better AP feats too and would clap.
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???
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I see the discussion around Boros is still very much ongoing.
Matthew, could I get your perspective on the rest of the suggested changes? If you approve of any, I'll ask Antvasima to look it over and we'll implement them.
A) upgrading Genos to low 7-B and the corresponding changes to the high demons, B) upgrading Drive Knight to baseline 7-B, C) upgrading DO-S and Fubuki, D) downgrading Suiryu and Choze, E) the large size upgrades, F) the lifting strength upgrades, G) the changes to Homeless Emperor, H) the upgrade to Boros's ship (low 6-B AP with barrage)?
Matthew, could I get your perspective on the rest of the suggested changes? If you approve of any, I'll ask Antvasima to look it over and we'll implement them.
A) upgrading Genos to low 7-B and the corresponding changes to the high demons, B) upgrading Drive Knight to baseline 7-B, C) upgrading DO-S and Fubuki, D) downgrading Suiryu and Choze, E) the large size upgrades, F) the lifting strength upgrades, G) the changes to Homeless Emperor, H) the upgrade to Boros's ship (low 6-B AP with barrage)?
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It ain't tho, that's part of the reason we don't scale Gouketsu to other more impressive cadres. Flashy and atomic is also a common headcanon we see in non vs-battles due to both being depicted as very fast (slashing speed and movement speed) and higher end S-class, but their feats, what we use in vsbattles say the opposite.
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We do scale Gouketsu to the most impressive cadres (3 of them).
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We do? I thought Gouketsu scaled to nobody
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All in all, Boros never kept up with Saitama, Saitama kept down for Boros.
Boros never reacted to Saitama, etc etc.
Boros never reacted to Saitama, etc etc.
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IMO we should scale the stronger cadres to Gouketsu since he even said that they're monsters in the association that are just as strong as him and the recent guide book backs this up.
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If the guide book backs it up then i'm all for it ^
But so far the only Gouketsu scaling i've seen among Cadres is him being mentioned in Rover's durability. "survived a casual punch from Saitama when Gouketsu could not, although Saitama admitted he was going easy on Overgrown Rover."
But so far the only Gouketsu scaling i've seen among Cadres is him being mentioned in Rover's durability. "survived a casual punch from Saitama when Gouketsu could not, although Saitama admitted he was going easy on Overgrown Rover."
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That doesn’t even make sense to me; bringing Gouketsu up in Rover’s durability. It doesn’t really add anything.
Plus, Saitama always hits monsters “normally”, like Orochi, where with Rover he thought he was just an overgrown not-monster and so hit him casually, which is below normally.
Plus, Saitama always hits monsters “normally”, like Orochi, where with Rover he thought he was just an overgrown not-monster and so hit him casually, which is below normally.
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So which cadres are going to be as strong as Gouketsu according to this scaling? Matthew said there were 3, but which 3?
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Anyone has this guide book statement?
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Thank you. These changes should be applicable then. They are as follows.
A.) new Genos key will be upgraded to low 7-B, HH garou and those around his level with scale to 681 kilotons (High 7-C+). Those above him will be "at least High 7-C" and those few characters that go one tier higher up (Transformed Bug God is the only one I can think of), will be baseline Low 7-B.
B.) Drive Knight will be upgraded to baseline 7-B.
D.) Suiryu and Choze will be downgraded to High 7-C+, around HH Garou's tier for the aforementioned reasons now that their cloud feat is no longer low 7-B.
E.) the following characters will be awarded "large size": Child Emperor with Brave Giant (type 0), Hundred Eyes Octopus (type 2 before absorbing concrete, type 3 after), Monsterized Bakuzan (type 1), Final Form Awakened Garou (type 0) and Gyoro Gyoro (type 0). Gums will also get elasticity like Pig God.
F.) The following characters will be upgraded in lifting strength: Genos (class M), Bang (class G, stopped 4 kilometers of EC's momentum), Bomb (class G), Darkshine (class G), Child Emperor (at least class M with Brave Giant), Beefcake (at least class M, with new justification). Metal Knight will not be upgraded per Damage's comment.
G.) Homeless Emperor's profile should be altered to consider his new physical abilities. He should get: "Unknown physically, 7-B with light spheres" tiering, he should be awarded "superhuman physical characteristics" and his speed should be changed to "At least Supersonic" based on this redraw. AP, Durability and LS should also be adjusted accordingly, to "at least superhuman" or "unknown physically".
The other changes will need to be discussed more before they can be implemented. Changes that are not yet ready to be implemented include... DO-S and Fubuki upgrades, A-class heroes downgrade (should also include child emperor), Geryuganshoop relativistic speed upgrade, Boros's ship upgrade and Boros tiering changes.
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How the hell did the guy just say "disagree" and more than enough for it not to go away? He didn't even give a reason why H shouldn't go on, sir, that's ridiculous.
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Because the actual cities where buildings are constructed are not the same as the entire city area. Destroying a city with bullets isn't the same as destroying an entire country.
The calc is flawed.
The calc is flawed.
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In the calculation all this is explained, the bullets hit the ground and the shock wave sweeps across the city, and as I showed, the distance I calculated was affected, so unless you provide a decent argument, it still remains accepted .
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The changes can still be applied after further discussion, I'm just trying to find out what everyone agrees on so it can be implemented right away. We can still apply all the stuff I've listed if we come to a near-unanimous consensus. The Boros ship upgrade and the DO-S and Fubuki upgrades in particular have been accepted by everyone except for Matthew. I just want Matthew to give his reasoning and have us discuss that before we go any further, in case he's recognized something nobody else has that may alter our perspectives.
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link again. Sounds BS.
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Here is the Guide Book if anyone wants to take a look at it and the stuff about Gouketsu is on page 38:
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"As we know, City-A is huge and even Saitama on top of a 300 meters building still couldn't see the whole city. Some more images that show that it is quite big."
... We can clearly see the end of the city tho.
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At the point where the landscape turns from black (rubble) to white (desert) is where the city ends. Very clearly, there's no more rubble there.
... We can clearly see the end of the city tho.
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At the point where the landscape turns from black (rubble) to white (desert) is where the city ends. Very clearly, there's no more rubble there.
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