One-Punch Man: AP Revisions

[Damage3245]

Your reasoning for disagreeing goes against how Genos' armor works an how it is accepted to work. It's completely unfair to look at these things and just go "I interpret it differently so I disagree" without actually explaining your argument.

You say that the mode that is stated to concentrate Incineration Cannon energy into its arm to boost its strength and Genos concentrating Incineration Cannon energy into his arms to boost its strength are... not the same thing? For what reason? If you're simply unsure about them being the same then just vote neutral.

When did I say I'm unsure about it?

Genos' Arms Mode greatly increases the power of his incineration cannon by concentrating more energy in his arms, but expending the full power of his core in a single shot is a step above that.

Like how he could charge up and fire a blast at Elder Centipede, but then use his core directly and produce an even stronger blast.

I don't think I can explain it any simpler than that.

Your justification of:

Should be capable of producing attacks at least as powerful as his previous Full Power Incineration Cannons through more normal means

Is lacking for a solid upgrade for Genos' normal incineration cannon to be "at least as powerful as his previous Full Power Incinceration Cannon". I don't accept "should be capable" as a justification.

 

[Kachon123]

Genos' Arms Mode greatly increases the power of his incineration cannon by concentrating more energy in his arms, but expending the full power of his core in a single shot is a step above that.

That's not what was calculated.

 

[Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm]

But that does disprove your claim that he only became able to use his Full Power Incineration Cannon without taking out his core after his fight with G4.

I don't think either of us will convince the other we're wrong on this. You can have your interpretation, but two staff members now disagree with the proposed scaling change.

But you're only one here...

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Can I get a TLDR of both sides?

 

[Damage3245]

But you're only one here...

Maverick also commented.

 

[Kachon123]

Can I get a TLDR of both sides?

Currently the last point of contention is this part of Genos' Post-VGS key in sandbox:

Varies up to Large Town level with Boost Attacks or Incineration Cannons (Casually beat Hydrated Deep Sea King in the VGS Simulator using Machine Gun Blows and a singular Incineration Cannon. Broke through G4's armor with a boosted jump despite him being able to tank a Rocket Punch just moments earlier. Should be capable of producing attacks at least as powerful as his previous Full Power Incineration Cannons through more normal means)

In his previous key, Genos shot a Full Powered Incineration Cannon, which got Large Town level. Genos was able to do this by detaching his core (which is a generator) and connecting it into his armor (which takes the energy from the core and concentrates it).

Genos' Post-VGS key uses incineration blasts and boosters that vary in power, and the reasoning that they are up to Large Town level is because we see that he can now use the Full Power Incineration Cannon while concentrating the energy in his arms without the need to detaching his core.


Damage's argument is that a regular Full Power Incineration Cannon and one that uses the core have different levels of power with the latter being more powerful.

 

[Damage3245]

I was in the middle of writing a summary but Kachon ninja'd me.

The part I'll add onto that to dispute part of that summary is:

Genos' Post-VGS key uses incineration blasts and boosters that vary in power, and the reasoning that they are up to Large Town level is because we see that he can now use the Full Power Incineration Cannon while concentrating the energy in his arms without the need to detaching his core.

We've also seen Genos be able to fire his Full Power Incineration Cannon without detaching his core prior to this, so it's a not a new thing that he's only just been able to do in the Sonic fight.

 

[Kachon123]

We've also seen Genos be able to fire his Full Power Incineration Cannon without detaching his core prior to this, so it's a not a new thing that he's only just been able to do in the Sonic fight.

He was doing that without concentrating the energy in his arms to boost the power of the cannons, as his arms mode does, so that's not really relevant.

 

[That_moron2]

I agree with damage personally (not like it matters)

 

[Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm]

He was doing that without concentrating the energy in his arms to boost the power of the cannons, as his arms mode does, so that's not really relevant.

That's probably not the context of the situation here. and the fact is that with the new upgrade from kuseno, he does not need to transform his body into an ultra-huge blaster

 

[Kachon123]

That's probably not the context of the situation here. and the fact is that with the new upgrade from kuseno, he does not need to transform his body into an ultra-huge blaster

It quite literally is. The entire point of the Arms Mode is to concentrate the energy into the armor to boost the strength of his Cannons.

 

[Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm]

It quite literally is. The entire point of the Arms Mode is to concentrate the energy into the armor to boost the strength of his Cannons.

I'm not talking about that. I mean, he doesn't have to do this anymore.

And he can just shoot directly from his hands

 

[Kachon123]

Yes, I'm aware.

 

[Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm]

and genos didn't need to connect to the core to use incineration at full power before that.

 

[Kachon123]

and genos didn't need to connect to the core to use incineration at full power before that.

Genos activated his core beforehand, just like against Sonic. The only difference between the two is that against Saitama, Genos had the Anti-Saitama Tactical Arms, which predated the Arms Mode prototype. The Anti-Saitama Tactical Arms do not have the feature where Genos attaches his core in order to boost the power of the blast.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Damage's argument is that a regular Full Power Incineration Cannon and one that uses the core have different levels of power with the latter being more powerful.

From the scans given (as someone that doesn't know the gritty nitty details of the verse), this seems reasonable. If there's a statement that suggests the relationship between the arms charging an attack and the core getting concentrated beyond visuals, I would be swayed completely.

Edit: Though at the least, I could see a possibly rating if there's nothing more.

 

[Recon1511]

Well the core attachment stuff never ever happens again in the manga as Genos gets upgrades as Arms Mode was solely a prototype during the Meteor Arc

 

[Damage3245]

Well the core attachment stuff never ever happens again in the manga as Genos gets upgrades as Arms Mode was solely a prototype during the Meteor Arc

Genos does still use his core for amplified blasts later in the manga.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Edit: Though at the least, I could see a possibly rating if there's nothing more.

In my mind based on the databooks the core focuses the energy into one point all at once, so a core boosted attack > normal attacks.

With the G4 upgrades the only statement we have to back core scaling is Genos saying he's going full power, but the core isn't full power as much as a desperation move. Overall I see both sides and I think a possibly rating is fine. Since it has justification to it but isn't concrete enough for a full rating.

 

[Damage3245]

In my mind based on the databooks the core focuses the energy into one point all at once, so a core boosted attack > normal attacks.

With the G4 upgrades the only statement we have to back core scaling is Genos saying he's going full power, but the core isn't full power as much as a desperation move. Overall I see both sides and I think a possibly rating is fine. Since it has justification to it but isn't concrete enough for a full rating.

What would you think of this as a change for Genos' House of Evolution to Alien Conquerors Arc key, and his Post-VGS key?

House of Evolution to Alien Conquerors Arc

Attack Potency: At least Town level normally (Stronger than before. Was stated by Armored Gorilla to possess high energy signals, which means Genos should be roughly comparable to him), higher with Boost Attacks (Able to rip apart and easily defeat Armored Gorilla) or Incineration Cannons (Weaker blasts are incapable of damaging Armored Gorilla while stronger ones are able to easily destroy the House of Evolution), and with Arms Mode (Fought and slightly overpowered a semi-wet Deep Sea King despite only having a single arm. His Boost Attacks and Incineration Cannons allow Genos to be powerful enough to break through Hydrated Deep Sea King's face and send him flying), Large Town level with Core (While in Arms Mode, by attaching his Core to one of his arms and charging for five seconds he can fire an empowered Incineration Cannon that consumes all his energy and renders him immobile[Note 5]), far higher with Self-Destruction (Is his final weapon that he'll only use when pushed to the limit and utilizes all the energy in his core)

Post-VGS

Attack Potency: At least Town level normally (Stronger than before. Easily defeated Mosquito Girl with a single attack in the VGS Simulator), higher with Boost Attacks or Incineration Cannons (Casually beat Hydrated Deep Sea King in the VGS Simulator using Machine Gun Blows and a singular Incineration Cannon. Broke through G4's armor with a boosted jump despite him being able to tank a Rocket Punch just moments earlier.), Large Town level with Core (By concentrating all of the energy of his Core into a single attack, Genos can produce an explosion this powerful), far higher with Self-Destruction (Is his final weapon that he'll only use when pushed to the limit and utilizes all the energy in his core)

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

In my mind based on the databooks the core focuses the energy into one point all at once, so a core boosted attack > normal attacks.

With the G4 upgrades the only statement we have to back core scaling is Genos saying he's going full power, but the core isn't full power as much as a desperation move. Overall I see both sides and I think a possibly rating is fine. Since it has justification to it but isn't concrete enough for a full rating.

Fair

 

[Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm]

In my mind based on the databooks the core focuses the energy into one point all at once, so a core boosted attack > normal attacks.

With the G4 upgrades the only statement we have to back core scaling is Genos saying he's going full power, but the core isn't full power as much as a desperation move. Overall I see both sides and I think a possibly rating is fine. Since it has justification to it but isn't concrete enough for a full rating.

we can draw a parallel with the already post-post g4 genos, which has a spiral incineration cannon, which operates according to the principles that were in its previous modifications, when it turned its hands into bazookas, and an ultra spiral incineration cannon, which uses all the energy of the core. and there is a significant difference between them

 

[Kachon123]

What would you think of this as a change for Genos' House of Evolution to Alien Conquerors Arc key, and his Post-VGS key?

House of Evolution to Alien Conquerors Arc



Post-VGS

Large Town level with Core (By concentrating all of the energy of his Core into a single attack, Genos can produce an explosion this powerful),

That's not what was calculated.

His energy was slowly draining while he was firing. (he canonically was holding the beam for 20 seconds straight before he completely ran out of energy). The Large Town level part of the feat only occurs from the initial burst before Genos held it for longer, meaning that the calculated shockwave was not a byproduct of all of Genos' energy.

Why is this constantly being ignored

 

[Damage3245]

Why is this constantly being ignored

It's not being ignored exactly - I just don't see how it's supposed to affect it? My wording still covers exactly what you said, after concentrating all of his energy for that attack, an explosion that powerful was produced.

Your own sandbox says:

, Large Town level with Full Power Incineration Cannon (While in Arms Mode, by attaching his Core to one of his arms and charging for five seconds he can fire an empowered Incineration Cannon that consumes all his energy and renders him immobile[Note 5])

Mine isn't that different.

 

[Kachon123]

Your own sandbox says:

Mine isn't that different.

The wording is different. Genos does not need to use all of the energy in his core order to produce that level of power. If this is what we're going with, it should look like this if anything:

Large Town level with Core (By concentrating the energy within his Core into a single attack, Genos can produce an beams this powerful),

 

[Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm]

Wait, wait, wait a minute. how can we calculate the power of genos from a meteorite that he did not destroy, did not stop, or even slow down? something is wrong here, because as far as common sense tells me, making calculations based on the fact that a character could just as well stand and take pictures is not the best idea.

 

[Emerald]

Wait, wait, wait a minute. how can we calculate the power of genos from a meteorite that he did not destroy, did not stop, or even slow down? something is wrong here, because as far as common sense tells me, making calculations based on the fact that a character could just as well stand and take pictures is not the best idea.

The calc is him creating a giant shockwave when hitting the meteor with the beam

 

[Damage3245]

Wait, wait, wait a minute. how can we calculate the power of genos from a meteorite that he did not destroy, did not stop, or even slow down? something is wrong here, because as far as common sense tells me, making calculations based on the fact that a character could just as well stand and take pictures is not the best idea.

The calc isn't from Genos affecting the meteor in any way; it's just measuring the size of the explosion in comparison to the meteor and finding the yield of that explosion.

The wording is different. Genos does not need to use all of the energy in his core order to produce that level of power. If this is what we're going with, it should look like this if anything:

Okay, perhaps the wording can be improved a bit. Anyway - the end point I'm trying to make here is that the feat doesn't scale to Genos' ordinary statistics and it doesn't scale to G4 or Sonic either.

Four staff members now don't support a direct solid scaling for it. Is that enough for you to be open to changing it?

 

[Kachon123]

Okay, perhaps the wording can be improved a bit. Anyway - the end point I'm trying to make here is that the feat doesn't scale to Genos' ordinary statistics and it doesn't scale to G4 or Sonic either.

Four staff members now don't support a direct solid scaling for it. Is that enough for you to be open to changing it?

Both Lephyr and Qaws agreed with a possibly rating.

 

[Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm]

The calc isn't from Genos affecting the meteor in any way; it's just measuring the size of the explosion in comparison to the meteor and finding the yield of that explosion.

and how were these thousands of meters of the meteorite calculated in general, if its size are clear and quite specific, and the external vastness can be safely attributed to artistic hyperbolization?

here, almost 99.5% of its energy can be cut off.

 

[Kachon123]

and how were these thousands of meters of the meteorite calculated in general, if its size are clear and quite specific, and the external vastness can be safely attributed to artistic hyperbolization?

here, almost 99.5% of its energy can be cut off.

One-Punch Man: Giant Meteor Size

The Giant Meteor from One-Punch Man is currently accepted to have a length of 200 meters based on the One-Punch Man Hero Encyclopedia databook. I believe this size to be inaccurate. The meteor only being 200 meters long is just blatantly ridiculous of several reasons. The first of which being...

vsbattles.com

This has already been talking about several times. This thread is long enough please stop asking questions that can be answered through 2 minutes of research.

 

[Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm]

One-Punch Man: Giant Meteor Size

The Giant Meteor from One-Punch Man is currently accepted to have a length of 200 meters based on the One-Punch Man Hero Encyclopedia databook. I believe this size to be inaccurate. The meteor only being 200 meters long is just blatantly ridiculous of several reasons. The first of which being...

vsbattles.com

This has already been talking about several times. This thread is long enough please stop asking questions that can be answered through 2 minutes of research.

but this was discussed only 1 time, and as I see it, the damage made reasonable arguments in favor of the fact that the size estimate is based on guesswork, and the one that is not based is applicable to 200 meters. +As we know, there were 9 seconds left before the impact. with a meteorite velocity of 11 kilometers per second, this is a height of 100 kilometers above the earth. from this distance, not only buildings, but even some cities are not visible. even if we reduce the speed to the sound level (which will reduce the kinetic energy by 1000 times) It's still 3 kilometers away, and at the right angle, it's quite possible to make a smaller meteorite huge.

well, + plays against a two-kilometer-sized meteorite, suddenly... Genos'es beam

 

[Damage3245]

This isn't the appropriate thread to question the specifics of the calc, this thread is about scaling. We can look at the calcs at any time separately. Please don't derail the thread.

 

[Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm]

The scaling thread does not exist in a vacuum, it relies on some parameters. and if the parameters themselves are very doubtful, then their discussion will be akin to transfusion from empty to empty.

 

[Kachon123]

The scaling thread does not exist in a vacuum, it relies on some parameters. and if the parameters themselves are very doubtful, then their discussion will be akin to transfusion from empty to empty.

Except those parameters have already been accepted in their own threads. This is not the time or the place. Stop derailing further.

 

[Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm]

Except those parameters have already been accepted in their own threads. This is not the time or the place. Stop derailing further.

I'm not derailing. because, as practice shows, they were taken on faith