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Some Undertale God Tier Revisions

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Aside from the fact that Pokémon is also metafictional, I don't recall a single instance of atk and def being referenced outside of check stats.

Also, pretty sure Asriel's (who's still supposed to be 2-A in his suppressed form) strongest attack, Hyper Goner, was less than that of any of the god tiers at only Low 2-C, which is a good low end to show.
 
Agreed. I personally don't even have them that high but this is agreeable. We could possibly have Likely 2B, possibly 2A but I agree with this one as well
 
No, it was definitely mentioned by Chara at the end of the genocide ending

"You.

With your guidance.

I realized the purpose of my reincarnation.

Power.

Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong.

HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV.

Every time a number increases, that feeling...

That's me.

"<Name>."

Now.

Now we have reached the absolute.

There is nothing left for us here.

Let us erase this pointless world, and move on to the next."
 
wait, it is? O_o

^ What Edward said

This is just a low-end though, and it directly contradicts Chara recreating / reseting the entire verse with a single human SOUL or Flowey creating multiple timelines via SAVE and LOAD mid-battle
 
I can't keep up with this thread but I would like to ask something:

>Not to mention, he's considered by Flowey to be God. Not just a god, but God, with a capital G.

>Flowey refers to himself (with 7 SOULs) as capital-G, proper-noun God, whereas Omega Flowey, who is clearly vastly more powerful than anything else in the universe, doesn't get such a classification.

>with Flowey even going as far as saying he would "become God" after getting them.

>Since a being such as him is said to be God even compared to 2-B entities

Are we just ignoring Photoshop Flowey saying "I am the GOD of this world." after his battle? It seems that too much relevance it's given to the the initial become God quote.
 
Well, even as Omega Flowey, he also said "Become God"
 
The point remains, if both forms are "God" then Asriel being one shouldn't be used as an argument to affirm his infinite supremacy.
 
@DMUA Yea, you're right. Asriel only having an "2-B" tier by itself wouldn't work.

"At least 2-B, likely 2-A is the most I'm compromising for."

So pretty much you kind of agreed on one of my suggestions for Asriel since you're implying this then?

@Rodri "Dante" "I will take this oportunity to make two really minor corrections:

  • The name of Flowey transformation is wrong, its Photoshop Flowey, not God Flowey
  • The quote in Chara's page is wrong, thats what they say while looking into a mirror"
Ikr, "God Flowey" is a fan name, the correct name was always "Photoshop Flowey." Chara wouldn't really see a mirror in the middle of nowhere and they were specifically referring to the Anomaly.

@The real cal howard

"Likely is too much, imo. Possibly would be the best case scenario. We had that as hyperbole for several other verses who did that much (Zen'ō and BotW Link come to mind). Undertale being meta af doesn't make it an exception."

Not really and it wouldn't make that much of a difference if we use "likely" compared to "possibly" & it is more preferred though.

"Keep in mind that said omniscient narrator has Mettaton as more durable than Chara."

Those stats doesn't apply to EoG Chara, it only applies to Genocide Frisk ("Chara").

@Bre8k "Agree with everything in the op,although i agree with "at least 2b,likely 2A" for Asriel."

So I guess you also agree with my suggestion for Asriel's tier changes below then?

I'm going to repost my suggestions here if no one noticed it yet:

  • Asriel Dreemurr = "At least 2-B | Likely 2-A" as mentioned from my earlier explanation
  • Frisk with full Determination AP = "At least 2-C"
  • Frisk with full Determination Durability = "At least 2-C, likely 2-A at peak" as mentioned from my earlier explanation
  • The Anomaly = "At least 2-C, likely 2-B" without "Unknown" as mentioned from my earlier explanation
Yes = Agree and No = Disagree.

Agree: 7

Disagree: 0
 
No, I meant the mirrors in Toriel's house and New Home.

When talking to the player, Chara says "I am <name>"
 
Are we just ignoring Photoshop Flowey saying "I am the GOD of this world." after his battle? It seems that too much relevance it's given to the the initial become God quote.

The difference here in my mind at least is the seperation between "the GOD" and "God." One is a proper noun, a title rather than simply an identifier. The way I see it, the difference lies in the fact that the one is more... absolute? Either way, the language doesn't really make a huge difference, given that both PS Flowey and ASRIEL might as well be gods compared to the rest of the cast.
 
"chara oneshots omega flowey don't @ me"

No evidence of that whatsoever.

Btw, I'm still patiently waiting for everyone to vote upon my earlier suggestion for this downgrade so this will be concluded soon.
 
Yeah, Hussie suggestion makes sense.

He agrees with me after all.
 
I agree with 2-C as the low end for Chara, OF, Frisk, and the Anomaly. However, Asriel being infinitely superior to them does seem to me to be canon rather than just meaningless exaggeration.
 
Also, how is base Asriel only 2-B, while his full power form is (likely) 2-A? Infinite stats only get you to 2-B, but being more powerful than that by some unknown amount then becomes 2-A?
 
Agree with magi.

Also about Chara, we don't know how many SAVE file flowey and frisk have done so i think this is more appropriate to make them like this: Varies. 2-C to 2-B
 
Raian230 said:
Also, how is base Asriel only 2-B, while his full power form is (likely) 2-A? Infinite stats only get you to 2-B, but being more powerful than that by some unknown amount then becomes 2-A?
Click to expand...
 
I definitely agree with everything besides the Asriel stuff. Although I think the "likely 2-A" should apply to his base form as well. Other than that, I think all of your suggestions make perfect sense.
 
Raian230 said:
I definitely agree with everything besides the Asriel stuff. Although I think the "likely 2-A" should apply to his base form as well. Other than that, I think all of your suggestions make perfect sense.
Click to expand...
If that was the case, there would be no basically downgrade at all.
 
I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to downgrade his base form to 2-B while keeping his full-power form at 2-A. It's never implied that his second form is infinitely superior to his first, while it is implied that both are infinitely superior to Photoshop Flowey.
 
Raian230 said:
I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to downgrade his base form to 2-B while keeping his full-power form at 2-A. It's never implied that his second form is infinitely superior to his first, while it is implied that both are infinitely superior to Photoshop Flowey.
Click to expand...
agree
 
Yeah, now that I think about it that part doesn't make much sense.

I still agree with the rest.
 
He should just be 2B. His angel of death form should make him a higher 2B not 2A because it's not an infinite increase. There might be 100 times or so, maybe more but it's not countless that's one of the reasons why we discuss him being 2B. If he's 2B then nothing of his should be 2A
 
But why is he 2-B at all? If he is infinitely superior to the others, then them going from 2-B to 2-C wouldn't really affect his tiering, right?
 
Raian230 said:
But why is he 2-B at all? If he is infinitely superior to the others, then them going from 2-B to 2-C wouldn't really affect his tiering, right?
Click to expand...
Then what do you suggest to do?

"at least 2-B, likely 2-A" for both of his forms?
 
That would work for me. At any rate, the "at least" should be removed from his second form if he does stay 2-A. Also, people here seem to be thinking that if other characters drop a tier, Asriel must as well. But this isn't really how it works with 2-A. A character going from 2-B to 2-C doesn't make an infinitely superior character drop to 2-B.

Also, it does seem that the infinite stats are likely literal. Things such as Frisk being completely unable to harm Asriel imply this, and throughout the whole game, seven human souls (or equivalent) are treated as an entirely different level of power, rather than just more of the same.

And again, I agree with the rest of the proposed changes.
 
But yeah, I think "At least 2-B, likely 2-A" for both of the forms is logical. I don't think the two forms are different tiers, and while it's strongly indicated that he is infinitely superior to Omega Flowey, it's not absolutely proven, so the "likely" makes sense.
 
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