Some Undertale God Tier Revisions

[Lightbuster30]

Azzy was talking about the "hidden" stats in the game files, which supposedly list Asriel as infinite.

 

[Kaltias]

The OP is about the CHECK stats.

Asriel's stats are 9999-8 in the coding.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You ninjaed me about frisk. But a possibly 2-A Asriel?

Do you mean like added on after the "At least 2-B"?

I don't really care. Others can decide on that. I've just laid out the basics of what really needs changing, in the OP.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

To summarize this post, here are the claims that everyone agrees on and the claims that has still yet to be decided.

What has been agreed on:

Chara and Photoshop Flowey = "At least 2-C, likely 2-B"

Frisk with full Determination AP = "Likely 2-C"

Still has yet to be decided:

Asriel = "At least 2-B | Likely 2-A" as mentioned from my earlier explanation

Frisk with full Determination Durability = "At least 2-C, likely 2-A at peak" as mentioned from my earlier explanation

The Anomaly = "At least 2-C, likely 2-B" without "Unknown" as mentioned from my explanation

 

[Eficiente]

I personally disagree with Asriel being 2-A but I'm not oppose if it remains as "At least 2-B, possibly 2-A".

 

[Lightbuster30]

Uh? Where is that implied?

Also this. Chara only becomes the narrator in genocide. And even still, Max power Frisk could not harm Asriel, thus supporting the CHECK Stats. Something people either ignore, or have yet to answer.

 

[Eficiente]

Nice 2-B feat you mensioned there.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

There should be no lack of a mention of 2-B for any tab for Asriel. Whether Full Power gets possibly 2-A, I'd understand (not support, understand), but he should still get a 2-B rating.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Clearly Chara is only as strong as a normal little kid with a kitchen knife and all the monsters, Asriel included, are 10-C.

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

in my opinion

we can't do this downgrades

first about what sans said you are right timelines has been ended

but not on flowey hands

that's what sans actually said


he said everything ends after the anomaly came

and about timelines that it's stop and start

maybe it could be destroyed

but how it could be destroyed

it can't be destroyed by itself the only one who could destroy timelines is flowey by doing a genocide route

1-and flowey said about that




because how much hard is sans fight

flowey didn't do a genocide route more than a one time and flowey did it actually after a second reset like what the anomaly did

2-we don't know if flowey destroyed it or he just reset


chara wasn't exist on flowey resets


and flowey seems that he doesn't know that he can destroy a timeline . his plan was making asgore shows the anomaly the human souls so he could take it

he didn't predict that it could goes that far


so flowey is not the one who ended the timelines


and about what sans said

sans didn't mention anything

he said that it just "stopped" not "ended"nor "destroyed"


so that's why we can't take this as a proof

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Ahmed

1. These scans alone with not affect all downgrades, so there's no reason to be rather albeit delusional with your opinion about this.

2. Definition of Stop: (of an event, action, or process) come to an end; cease to happen.

synonyms: conclude, come to an end/stop/standstill, cease, end, finish, draw to a close, be over, terminate; pause, break off; peter out, fade away

3. A timeline "stopping" ceases to exist, so now that's settled....we don't need to continue this any further.

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

@Ahmed
1. These scans alone with not affect all downgrades, so there's no reason to be rather albeit delusional with your opinion about this.

2. Definition of Stop: (of an event, action, or process) come to an end; cease to happen.

synonyms: conclude, come to an end/stop/standstill, cease, end, finish, draw to a close, be over, terminate; pause, break off; peter out, fade away

3. A timeline "stopping" ceases to exist, so now that's settled....we don't need to continue this any further.

first

sans said that timelines were jumping left and right

that's mean there is a possibility that undertale timelines has the ability to move

so maybe there is a timelines begin to stop moving

or maybe there is a timelines has stopped from having a future

second

even if their is actuall timelines did destroyed


who or what destroyed it

how did (he.she.it ). destroy it

why did(he.she.it) destroy it


if it was flowey

then we need a strong proof that flowey was the one who destroyed those timelines


that what I was talking about

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Ahmed

1. Don't quote long reponses, especially when you're making huge spaces in your comment that needs to be more organized and cleaner.

2 . Why are you making huge spaces in your comment? You need to stop that since it's very unnecessary and it can be problematic to deal with later if you continue making huge spaces.

3. Not all timelines, timelines are created & destroyed simultaneously, some continues to keep flowing and some comes to an end and suddenly ceases to exist.

4. The Anomaly is mainly responsible for causing that as stated by Sans.

5. Who remotely said that Flowey was specifically responsible for causing timeline destruction in the Genocide Route? This is rather an easy answer. Nobody since no one actually claimed that he did.

 

[DMB_1]

I would give Asriel this tier

"At least 2-B, possibly higher"

And point out the Infinity stat thing as a justification ofr "possibly higher"

 

[RRTheEndMan]

Is that from the game?

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@RRTheEndMan Yea.

Anyways, let's get back to the main discussion.

All right, who is on favor with this?:

Asriel = "At least 2-B | Likely 2-A" as mentioned from my earlier explanation

Frisk with full Determination AP = "At least 2-C"

Frisk with full Determination Durability = "At least 2-C, likely 2-A at peak" as mentioned from my earlier explanation

The Anomaly = "At least 2-C, likely 2-B" without "Unknown" as mentioned from my earlier explanation

Yes = Agree and No = Disagree.

 

[RRTheEndMan]

when? Is it an easter egg? Anyways, I agree.

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

1and 2-man I am sorry about that I was really trying to make my comment more comfortable for the eyes but I missed up

3-that's what I am talking about! how does it disappeared! there is not something can destroy timelines like(except for flowey) this is undertale universe not scp foundation

3-well about that it wasn't anomaly too


alphys said that after the anomaly came. so the anomaly didn't destroy anything

and their is not timelines got disappeared


4-so all of that downgrade came because sans said with unclear tone that their is timelines could disappear?

what a nice day

 

[ThePerpetual]

Agreed with most of the OP, though I have two minor objections:

Asriel's Infinity Being Literal: The characters in the game being aware of the nature of their code in conjunction with Chara's dealing "999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999... etc," lends me some serious reason to believe Asriel's being infinitely stronger than Chara may be literal- if it were merely functionally infinitely higher, it would probably register as such. I'd not mind something like "At least 2-B, possibly 2-A" for him (and for Frisk's Durability.)

Frisk's AP: Even if Frisk's Attack Potency is only sufficient to deal minor chip damage to Omega Flowey, I can't see it being so far below his Durability as to assume 2-C in instances where Omega Flowey's Durability is taken to be well into 2-B. So, I'd probably have Frisk's AP be "At least 2-C, likely 2-B" as well, just a bit lower than Omega Flowey's Durability (which makes sense anyways, Flowey's wielding six SOULs that seem to be comparable to Frisk's.)

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

look guys I will make it clear

we can't just depend on what sans said because he said it with unclear tone(stopping has another meanings except for destroyed like:stopped from working via reset .stopped from moving.stopped from having a future) so it's not a good proof


on the other hand logically undertale timelines can't disappeared by itself it needs someone or something to make it disappear and since there is nothing or nobody we know that can cause a timeline disappearing so we can't say that their is timelines had disappeared (there is not a crime without a criminal)


so I say that we need to change nothing

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Ahmed

1. Don't be too hard on yourself, it's all right.

2. The Anomaly controls the Save File, which allows them to control the timelines in any way they want.

3. Dr. Alphys has never directly mentioned the Anomaly and the rest of what you just said afterwards is a headcanon.

4. Sans was prefectly clear about what he mentioned, the thing is that you're not taking the time to fully understand them.

5-7. Not to be mean or anything but you do know that the majority, if not, all of the people here already disagrees against the idea of having no changes to these profiles right? Also, that's false to assume that Sans was not blantantly clear with his statements relating to timelines.

@ThePerpetual I suppose you may be right but for the Frisk with full Determination AP part, their tier should be changed & downgraded to "At least 2-C" but not any higher since they can't be comparable to Photoshop Flowey which doesn't make sense really.

I'll add this request to my list of tier changes as mentioned from one of my earlier/previous comments for Frisk to be "At least 2-C" and wait for more people to agree on it so that can be concluded.

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

ahh damn


no body even tried to disagrees except for me

and no body even tried debunked me except for you magi hussie


I can continue the entire day trying to prove about how week is that proof about sans but there is not anyone active with me except for you

my situation is so bad

 

[RRTheEndMan]

he was never unclear tho

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

look guys I will say what in my mind one last time and if someone debunk me I won't reply again and I will leave this


Sans said just it stopped ik the nearest mean of this is ,ended, but I think that there is something more logically than ,destroyed,

the more logically than destroyed is 'stopped from working

when frisk/flowey resets they actually starts a timeline

but when they reset it again and move to another we can't know what has happened to the old timeline (maybe it's stopped from moving.or it's stopped from having a future.etc)


but why we can't count on the meaning"destroyed.stopped from existing.etc)

1-if frisk/flowey reset can destroy their old timeline every timeline on the game gonna be destroyed

2-undertale characters doesn't show that there is a phenomenon/character/thing can destroy a timeline without(the human souls-chara) so

it can't be destroyed by a phenomenon

it can't be destroyed by an error on the timeline(the most dangrous thing that happened inside a timeline is just killing a bunch of monsters

it can't be destroyed by a character


so how sans was clear that the timelines got destroyed if there's not any acceptable reason that it can destroy a timeline

that is the last thing I will type.I hope that there is someone can understand me

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Ahmed

I'm not sure what your trying to say with this. Nothing there disproves the OP and is not justification as to why our current ratings are fine.

 

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

he was never unclear tho

extara:flowey said that sans is Thad last person you should trusr

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Ahmed

1. No, that's not how it works. Branching/alternate timelines would not be affected by the original.

2. Yes there is, the Anomaly can consume/destroy timelines and new timelines usually are created (starting) after the old ones ceases to exist (stopping) on a daily basis just by manipulating their Save File in any way they want.

3. Multiple specific characters destroyed timelines before, you're being in denial.

4. The Anomaly is literally a 4D being who uses their Save File to manipulate the timelines in the game and created a manifestion (Chara), who blatantly has proven themselves to be capable of destroying the entire game, so there should be absolutely no questioning about that, it's pointless.

At this point by using your unprove, faulty logic about nobody in UT being able to destroy a timeline, we should downgrade every Undertale God Tier to 3D.

 

[DMUA]

Don't think Asriel should go to 2-B.

Er, at least, a guy on discord whom I agree with doesn't think so.

Basically, Chara, who holds a 99 Attack, was able to destroy the entire timeline just fine. If they were really just saying "woah he's super strong" they wouldn't just say INFINITY.

Not to mention, he's considered by Flowey to be God. Not just a god, but God, with a capital G.

 

[Stevethebarbarian]

Agreed with most of the OP, though I have two minor objections:
Asriel's Infinity Being Literal: The characters in the game being aware of the nature of their code in conjunction with Chara's dealing "999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999... etc," lends me some serious reason to believe Asriel's being infinitely stronger than Chara may be literal- if it were merely functionally infinitely higher, it would probably register as such. I'd not mind something like "At least 2-B, possibly 2-A" for him (and for Frisk's Durability.)

Frisk's AP: Even if Frisk's Attack Potency is only sufficient to deal minor chip damage to Omega Flowey, I can't see it being so far below his Durability as to assume 2-C in instances where Omega Flowey's Durability is taken to be well into 2-B. So, I'd probably have Frisk's AP be "At least 2-C, likely 2-B" as well, just a bit lower than Omega Flowey's Durability (which makes sense anyways, Flowey's wielding six SOULs that seem to be comparable to Frisk's.)

^ This. I agree with most of the changes, but claiming that the Narrator is lying/bluffing/wrong when they list ASRIEL's STATs as infinity seems a bit odd. They can easily read Chara's 99, which is enough to, at the very least, destroy one single universe, and probably a great number of them. Flowey refers to himself (with 7 SOULs) as capital-G, proper-noun God, whereas Omega Flowey, who is clearly vastly more powerful than anything else in the universe, doesn't get such a classification. I think its fair enough to assume that the Narrator knows what they're talking about, and they aren't suddenly going to start talking hyperbolically in the final stretch. Come to think of it, Mettaton in his box form had 255 defense, so it's not like the Narrator can't see anything past 99. I dunno, the logic of that bit left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I agree with Chara, Frisk and Omega Flowey being downgraded

Although, i disagree with Asriel being downgraded to 2-B, his stats are pretty clear in stating that his power is Infinite, there is nothing ambiguous or uncertain about it, his Stats are just flat-out infinity when in comparison to weaker beings such as Chara or Flowey

Although, if most of the people here still disagree, i think an "At least 2-B" or "At least 2-B, possibly / likely higher" could work for him

 

[DMUA]

At least 2-B, likely 2-A is the most I'm compromising for.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

I will take this oportunity to make two really minor corrections:

• The name of Flowey transformation is wrong, its Photoshop Flowey, not God Flowey

• The quote in Chara's page is wrong, thats what they say while looking into a mirror

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Likely is too much, imo. Possibly would be the best case scenario. We had that as hyperbole for several other verses who did that much (Zen'ō and BotW Link come to mind). Undertale being meta af doesn't make it an exception.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I don't think there is anything that contradicts it or make it a simple exaggeration though. A monster with Seven Human SOULs absorbed is repeteadly treated as a massively powerful being above all others, with Flowey even going as far as saying he would "become God" after getting them. And considering that even someone with a single SOUL can recreate / reset the game in it's entirety even after it has been destroyed, i wouldn't say it is an exaggeration or a hyperbole

Besides, it is a literal Stat function that is made canon through metafictional, what exactly makes it a hyperbole?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I've seen city levelers claiming to be capital G God (if you count TFS, I've seen 10-Bs). The verse doesn't even have an infinite Multiverse. While that's not enough to disprove it, it shows that there will never actually be feats of that level, in the same vein as Kirby's infinite power WoG statements are disregarded.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

You can't really compare WoG to what basically amounts to an Omniscient Narrator, though

Asriel's stats are simply flat-out infinite, and this does not contradicts the scale of the verse at all. Since a being such as him is said to be God even compared to 2-B entities, and he is portrayed as a God-Tier who vastly outclasses everyone else in the verse even while restrained to a fraction of his power

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Keep in mind that said omniscient narrator has Mettaton as more durable than Chara.

 

[Jinsye]

Maybe he would've survived the multiverse nuke if he just didn't switch to Mettaton NEO

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, if say, Arceus had infinite stats, I highly doubt we'd have the llama at 2-A because of that.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

The difference is that Mettaton's armor being more durable than Chara directly contradicts a ton of things, the fact that Chara destroyed the entirety of the game being only one of them

Asriel's infinite stats don't contradict anything, since he is a God-Tier portrayed as outclassing all other characters by a massive extent

Except that Undertale stats are canon to the Game given it's metafictional nature, this is a huge False Equivalency