Some of Xeno Goku resistances

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Hit isn't even freezing time in a conventional sense. That's more like creating a small pocket dimension where time is stopped for a short time.

Most verses doesn't treat hax as being able to be resisted with power. Dragon Ball is one of the few verses that does

Haxes such as transmutation, EE and mind hax all bypass durability by default. Hell, the Axolotl is said to be immensly more powerful than Bill could ever be, but does he have resistances to Bill's haxes? No, and he shouldn't have them unless he shows that he resist the haxes

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

More Ki = more strength. Therefore it doesn't work on people with more Ki because they're stronger, so it doesn't work on stronger opponents.

 

[Planck69]

@Ricsi it still has the properties of bypassing durability. Skipping time, etc is not something normal power would bypass. So it still has the same effect, but the character ki negates its effect on them.

Except in Dragon Ball's case, normal power does allow you to resist. Which would apply to any character from another verse who's strong enough to resist since Ki=Power. Which is a problem of DB's hax not the other way around.

@shadow I'm not showing favoritism though, all it is using deductive reasoning to come to conclusion that the character who resisted the hax used ki to do so therefore other who are akin to that can as well. Other verses dont have the same powerset.

Yes you are though. Another verse's hax are capable of affecting their characters regardless of power. Which means that all Dragon Ball characters would be affected by hax from other verses since they can't power through them. Which leaves you wondering why they have resistance to begin with.

 

[ArmBill]

@stoned For the same reason Beerus can hit bulma and not kill her. Hes just suppressing himself. Which makes sense if hes just chilling and watching a fight.

@ I'm going to be 100 I'm not too well versed in the verse battle wiki rules and shenannegans they do here. But from what I understand that wouldnt make sense for the reasons I stated. Other people from other verses having powers, abilites, Resistances from another verse isnt logical at all.

 

[Planck69]

@ I'm going to 100 I'm not too well versed in the verse battle wiki rules and shenannegans they do here. But from what I understand that wouldnt make sense for the reasons I stated. Other people from other verses having powers, abilites, Resistances from another verse isnt logical at all.

They supposedly get resistances since they have more power. Dragon Ball has a mechanic where greater power allows you to resist hax. However, these other verses do not have their hax depend on raw strength overpowering them and there are usually other mechanisms or traits involved. Which means that Dragon Ball characters wouldn't resist their hax since raw power is a non-entity in resisting them.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

In most verses haxes isn't connected to AP at all, and you definitely can't power through haxes in them

 

[ArmBill]

@Gilad how many times do I have say this? Dragonball rules do not apply to other verses. Idc if yall dont find it fair or what not. That's just how Dragonball presents itself.

@shadow yeah, in Dragonball. Since they've shown that power can negate the effect of the hax in question.

@plan I mean normal power in the general sense.

Not if the effect of the hax get negated by their power in dragonball which has been shown, stated, etc. They would indeed power through them unless theres extra context of how powerful the hax is or something.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

The rule about no resistances being added without feats is in place for a reason. You can't have it both ways--you can't claim that DB characters resist hax via raw power, without claiming that the same should be said for anyone they're put up against via verse equalization, or vice versa.

 

[ArmBill]

@plan if they shown to negate the effect of the hax theres no reason that they couldn't negate the same effect from another verse. The laws of the other verse legit dosen't matter on how things works in Dragonball. Unless your talking about some weird vsbattlewiki thing which I cant say too much about.

@Gilad^^^^

 

[ArmBill]

@Stoned most I can say about that is I disagree. I dont think resistances from strength from Dragonball should transfer to others in other verses. One has reasoning for power>hax, one dosen't.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

No, it just means that he haxes in Dragon Ball have a weakness, not that they can power through haxes from other verses where you can't power through hax

The "powering through hax" thing only applies to in verse haxes, not to haxes from other verses and you definitely don't get resistance via scaling

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

@Stoned most I can say about that is I disagree. I dont think resistances from strength from Dragonball should transfer to others in other verses. One has reasoning for power>hax, one dosen't.

Dragon Ball characters can't power through haxes from other verses. It's as simple as that. It's the DB hax that have the weakness and not the other way around

 

[Planck69]

@Gilad how many times do I have say this? Dragonball rules do not apply to other verses. Idc if yall dont find it fair or what not. That's just how Dragonball presents itself.

Which is a good thing verse equalization is a thing. By default, Ki would be equalized to general strength since you also seem to agree that they're basically one and the same.

@shadow yeah, in Dragonball. Since they've shown that power can negate the effect of the hax in question.

Ergo, a character from another verse whose more powerful would resist since again, verse equalization is a thing.

@plan I mean normal power in the general sense.

Not if the effect of the hax get negated by their power in dragonball which has been shown, stated, etc. They would indeed power through them unless theres extra context of how powerful the hax is or something.

Most other verse have their hax work on mechanics independent of power. No Dragon Ball character would be able to power through since it's very mode of operation is different from what allows Ki to overpower it.

 

[ArmBill]

@Gilad it would apply to other verses 100% since they have the same effect. Like I said many times Dragonball has shown that you definitely do "get Resistance via scaling".

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

@plan if they shown to negate the effect of the hax theres no reason that they couldn't negate the same effect from another verse. The laws of the other verse legit dosen't matter on how things works in Dragonball. Unless your talking about some weird vsbattlewiki thing which I cant say too much about.
@Gilad^^^^

It doesn't matter. This "power negate hax" thing only applies to Dragon Ball haxes and not to all haxes. Hax can have weakness and in Dragon Ball every hax fail against characters with higher ki

 

[ArmBill]

@plan idk if I didn't make this clear enough but when I talked about "general strength" earlier I meant to more akin to real life with weird physics effecting that. Ki in dragonball does indeed mean strength, but it's also speed durability, etc.

Again I disagree with adding resistances from one series to another. If that's a vsbattle rule then not much I can do.

Haxs in other verses do indeed work in diffrent ways, but for the most part they always have the same effect which dragonball characters negated. If they have very technical way that makes the effect completely different then maybe it could negate their resistance.

 

[Planck69]

@Gilad it would apply to other verses 100% since they have the same effect. Like I said many times Dragonball has shown that you definitely do "get Resistance via scaling".

That. only applies. to. them. Virtually no other verse has this convention of power negating resistances so you'd now have to prove that not only more powerful resistance-less characters wouldn't resist (which by your own logic they should) but also that characters with hax that have nothing to do with power would be unable to affect DB characters (which they would).

 

[ArmBill]

@Gilad like I said, the power in dragonball is the cause of the resistance. It negates the effect of the ability, which I dont see why it wouldnt transfer to a resistance vs another verses hax. If yall really feel that way then remove all the resistances from the dragonball pages. It would be kind of funny if that happened, even if I disagree with it.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Plank and Gilad make sense. Somebody not being able to Hax you because you're simply stronger than them sounds more like weakness rather than a resistance for the one who resist it. In fact, in a verse-equalized settling, the Character who can't Hax a stronger character in his verse wouldn't be able to Hax another character as long as they are stronger than them regardless if they possess an actual resistance.

The premise itself goes against the very meaning of Hax, which is render statistics themselves useless.

 

[ArmBill]

@plan my logic dosen't allow stronger characters from other verses to resist at all wdym. The power>resistance thing only applies to Dragonball. Their ki is the cause of the Resistance and the hax would cause the effect which ki has shown to negate. These weird vsbattlewiki rules (that seem to change alot tbh) I can't comment too much on, but from what I said and shown they're kind of flawed.

 

[ArmBill]

@Monkey I dont think it makes the hax redundant, it still has the effect like the hax would. It's just that the dragonball's power(ki) would be the cause of the Resistance. I dont think it should transfer to another character power as well if they never had that concept explain in verse, that seems unfair.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

They only resist haxes from their own verse, since even hax in DB is bascially Ki VS Ki (like everything else there). That's a hax weakness, and it don't apply to any other verse

 

[ArmBill]

RIP me when I finally go to bed and have a plethora of responses later

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Cal the moment I saw this pop up I started following, cause i knew this was going to be a giant mess and I enjoy watching the world burn. Still having read the arguments I have to say I'm kinda in agreement, hax not working on a stronger opponent in verse sounds more like a weakness then a resistance...

 

[ArmBill]

@Gilad haxs in dragonball can be many things such as magic with the candy beam. But I would say the effect is more important than if it was made with ki or magic. The power in dragonball will always be the cause like I showed and stated.

 

[Planck69]

@plan my logic dosen't allow stronger characters from other verses to resist at all wdym. The power>resistance thing only applies to Dragonball. Their ki is the cause of the Resistance and the hax would cause the effect which ki has shown to negate. These weird vsbattlewiki rules (that seem to change alot tbh) I can't comment too much on, but from what I said and shown they're kind of flawed.

Verse Equalization son!

It's not even about the rules, it's basic common sense. Why do we assume that Dragon Ball is the only setting with Ki when a fixture of that in-verse is that it's present in all things, living or otherwise. By this logic, Keiji Mogami can mind-hax Reinhard Heydrich since the latter doesn't use psychic energy and thus can't defend himself since it's exclusive to MP100.

That's why these rules exist. To prevent stuff like the above from coming up.

 

[ArmBill]

@plan verse equalization isnt really common sense at all. For example I seen many people say goku can sense characters with no energy cause of this, which I disagree with. It's really down to opinion on how that should work I suppose.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

I really don'y know why transmutation needs to go like Vegito is half of Goku. And what about trunks?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Goku is still not Vegito. And scaling hax resistances is ridiculous

 

[Planck69]

@plan verse equalization isnt really common sense at all. For example I seen many people say goku can sense characters with no energy cause of this, which I disagree with. It's really down to opinion on how that should work I suppose.

Then I guess no one in Dragon Ball resists EE from Alien X since he obviously doesn't have Ki. And Mogami can mind-hax anyone in DB becaus they don't have psychic energy to resist.

See what happens when you don't equalize?

 

[AwkguyDB]

Goku is still not Vegito. And scaling hax resistances is ridiculous

HE DOES NOT NEED TO BE VEGITO, VEGITO BEING VEGITO IS NOT WHY HE RESISTED THE HAX

 

[AwkguyDB]

With the resistance scaling through commonalities thing, it kinda has to be explicitly stated that X is why it's resisted and that X quality is shared by a bunch of people. Don't think you're really allowed to just assume that goku does for being similar to trunks if we're not sure exactly why a thing didn't work.

Since we apparently use guides now, this one clearly say it's because of power

And honestly, saying they are resisting through ki isn't an assumption, it's assuming they are resisting through an unknown never mentionned power that is an assumption and pretty big one.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And honestly, saying they are resisting through ki isn't an assumption, it's assuming they are resisting through an unknown never mentionned power that is an assumption and pretty big one.

This, again, is a strawman. The options are not "ki grants resistance" or "something unknown grants resistance."

There is also the very simple option that the magical power Buu uses doesn't work on enemies that are more powerful.

And you can't say one is more reasonable than the other without proof, because magic abilities' mechanics are not set.


Also, that quote does not say that his power makes him resist transmutation. It says "he's strong, and he stays strong even if transformed". That does not mean one is caused by the other.

 

[Theuser789]

you're salty about Sonic character losing

What? No Sonic character has lost to Xeno Goku because he resisted transmutation, and the last Sonic vs Dragon Ball character fight had the Sonic character winning, you are just ad hominen Shadow

About the thread I am neutral leaning to agreement

 

[AwkguyDB]

And honestly, saying they are resisting through ki isn't an assumption, it's assuming they are resisting through an unknown never mentionned power that is an assumption and pretty big one.

This, again, is a strawman. The options are not "ki grants resistance" or "something unknown grants resistance."
There is also the very simple option that the magical power Buu uses doesn't work on enemies that are more powerful.

And you can't say one is more reasonable than the other without proof, because magic abilities' mechanics are not set.


Also, that quote does not say that his power makes him resist transmutation. It says "he's strong, and he stays strong even if transformed". That does not mean one is caused by the other.

Regardless thats literally resistances in DB

some examples are from excepted abilities on the wiki.

Resistance to Time Stop (Repeatedly resisted Hit's attempts to freeze him in time until Hit powered up further, as a Super Saiyan Blue with Kaio-ken x10 and retains this resistance in stronger forms)

Resistance to Existence Erasure and Void Manipulation (Was able to overpower Toppo's Energy of Destruction, which had been shown to be able to affect the infinite World of Void, as well as being able to lock fists with him while Toppo was cloaked in the same applied Destruction energy)

Time Stop (Broke through Hit's Time-Leap)

Mind Control (Should possess a will similar to Vegeta's, who was capable of overpowering Babidi's hold on his mind),

Also, that quote does not say that his power makes him resist transmutation. It says "he's strong, and he stays strong even if transformed". That does not mean one is caused by the other.

^ Power doesn't equate to strength now in DB? WTF? Vegito possess the overwhelming strength to bypass being turned into said jawbreaker, but the side effects of completely turning him into an actual candy were rendered ineffective and Vegito retained his mind, power, and conciousness. Because this was done by overwhelming strength, as the Daizenshuu says so logically by Dragon Ball's standard (Which supersedes the BS on this thread, cry me a river.) anyone with OVERWHELMING STRENGTH should resist Buu's transmutation effects. Thanks to Verse Equalization, this applies to any characters that Goku and Vegeta can overwhelm. This means that Bill Cipher can not just bypass Xeno Goku's resistance due to not ever being shown to transmute a character who is INFINITELY ABOVE HIM with said resistance. (Context: the reason why this thread exist.)

 

[AwkguyDB]

But also not all Hax works that way in Dragon Ball

Ribrianne's Empathic Manip effected Obuni who is stronger than Base Gohan but not Gohan himself.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Overwhelming hax with strenght is fine...

But that means that they don't resist haxes that ingore strenght, and that their "haxes" will not work on stronger people.

Like, sure, it can work however it does in Dragon Ball. But the logic will not be extended to them resisting abilties that can't be beaten through raw power.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

No, that's just means that Buu's Transmutation doesn't work against people stronger than him, not Bill's transmutation or anyone else's transmutation outside of Dragon Ball. Again, this is a weakness for Buu's transmutation, rather than the other way around

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Same goes to Hit. He resist Hit's time stop with AP, but not something like Chaos Control which is outside of Dragon Ball. That is also a weakness for Hit's time skip.

Vegeta resisted Toppo's EE aura, so Hakai doesn't work on stronger beings than a G.O.D, but he definitely won't resist other EE means such Darkseid's Omega Beams

I can keep this on and on. The point is that characters resisting haxes by powering up isn't a resistance from them, but rather a weakness for each of those specific haxes

 

[AwkguyDB]

Overwhelming hax with strenght is fine...
But that means that they don't resist haxes that ingore strenght, and that their "haxes" will not work on stronger people.

Like, sure, it can work however it does in Dragon Ball. But the logic will not be extended to them resisting abilties that can't be beaten through raw power.

But we can't just say

Vegito now gets transmuted by literally every transmute user on the site because, dragon ball laws do not apply to other fictional logic.

The only way that logic would work is if we get a guide confirmation that states that Buu's transmute is a special case than other verses.

If DB characters can bypass abilites with OVERWHELMING STRENGTH, lol, then it should apply to dudes they are vastly superior to unless those same dudes have the ability to transmute dudes who have overwhelming strength that far exceed their own.

Note this is not a law against all hax but against Hax that has clearly been overpowered via OVERWHELMING STRENGTH!