Some of Xeno Goku resistances

[AwkguyDB]

plus we already do stuff like this with the Portal Creation and Possible Sound Manip for Buu Saga characters and everyone who is stronger than SSJB Goku before the ToP has pocket dimension creation/destruction via powerscaling.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yes we can. And the fact that it's limited by power makes it work differently.

No, it should not apply. There are 10-B characters that are capable of shredding the mind and transmutating 3-A characters in verse. And now the tier 4 DB characters can resist that because of their "overwhelming strenght" when someone trillions of times stronger was helpless? No.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So just to be clear, are we not giving out resistances based on the energy source (in this case, KI)?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

So just to be clear, are we not giving out resistances based on the energy source (in this case, KI)?

There's no actual proof it has anything to do with ki, so that is simply a headcanon.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

With verse equalization, why wouldn't it apply to everyone? Now anyone fighting Dragon Ball characters can resist hax by being stronger than them.

Examples:

Universe 2 Fighters VS Bill Cipher - Bill resists their empathic manipulation because he's stronger than them

Vegeta VS 2-C Super Shadow - Shadow Chaos Controls and Vegeta gets frozen in time because Shadow is much stronger than Vegeta

MUI Goku VS Hyper Sonic - Assuming they're bloodlusted, Sonic uses Violet Void and erases Goku, or uses Ring Time and turns him into a ring because Sonic is stronger than both Beerus and Buu

Want me to continue with this? Because I can

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Hell, Jiren has no EE resistance despite being stronger than Belmod

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

Bleach has actually made it very clear on several occasasion that being stronger than your opponents negates their hax, unlike DBZ. Guldo can still use his time-hax on opponent stronger than him Ginyu can swtich bodies with opponents literally millions of times stronger than himself, monster carrot can turn opponents much stronger than him into carrots etc.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

And even so, no Bleach character has resistance simply because they are stronger than other Bleach characters. Look at prime Soul King, he doesnt have any of the resistances that Ichigo and Aizen have

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Even with Bleach it would only work for their in verse haxes. Since "not working on strong guys" is an explicit hax weakness

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bleach has actually made it very clear on several occasasion that being stronger than your opponents negates their hax, unlike DBZ. Guldo can still use his time-hax on opponent stronger than him Ginyu can swtich bodies with opponents literally millions of times stronger than himself, monster carrot can turn opponents much stronger than him into carrots etc.

Not taking a side here still, but just to point this out. No, Bleach doesn't do that with their haxes. At least for the passives like Reiatsu Crush, it's treated as pure hax against stronger opponents (despite some disagreement with it).

We've had multiple threads about this where the "poweer > hax" limitation was argued to apply and it doesnt.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

I meant general hax, like Soi Fon's shikai Nigeki Kessatsu that Aizen lolnoped which he stated was because his spiritual pressure is much higher than hers. Maybe this doesnt apply to Reatsu crush or other passive haxes idk, but it definitely applies to at least Soi Fon's.

 

[Akreious]

So just to be clear, are we not giving out resistances based on the energy source (in this case, KI)?

There's no actual proof it has anything to do with ki, so that is simply a headcanon.

Absolute bullshit. There's so much circumstantial evidence and implications that it's literally insane, you ignoring it is itself headcanon and complete ignorance.

 

[AwkguyDB]

lol

 

[AwkguyDB]

The proof is Xeno Trunks resisting it

 

[Ionliosite]

The proof is Xeno Trunks resisting it

No one is dennying he resists it, but Goku doesn't since there's no evidence he can resist it too, beyond "he's stronger and thus should scale", in which case, hax simply doesn't work like that, the whole point of hax is being able to affect people stronger than the user, that is, to be able to negate durability, that's even on the Hax page. If Dragon Ball hax is unable to do what hax even is, then it's just really bad hax with a massive weakness.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Doesn't he resist it in Xenoverse?

 

[Ionliosite]

Doesn't he resist it in Xenoverse?

Give the proof he does, that'll ease this thread.

 

[Akreious]

The proof is Xeno Trunks resisting it

No one is dennying he resists it, but Goku doesn't since there's no evidence he can resist it too, beyond "he's stronger and thus should scale", in which case, hax simply doesn't work like that, the whole point of hax is being able to affect people stronger than the user, that is, to be able to negate durability, that's even on the Hax page. If Dragon Ball hax is unable to do what hax even is, then it's just really bad hax with a massive weakness.

Which is absolutely asinine since there is fundamentally nothing different between Xeno Trunks and Xeno Goku. In fact, Goku scales FAR above Trunks in literall every category; the only difference between them is Ki Control (Goku's better) and Sheer Power (Goku has more).

This is LITERALLY no different from "God Ki makes it so mortals cannot sense them".

Also your reiteration that "Dragon ball hax is just weak" does not support your stance at all and at worst is still ignoring every point brought up.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Akreious, like I told Dragomer, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either Goku needs to have shown resistance or the hax doesn't work on stronger opponents which makes it a weakness of the hax.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Ionliosite

What is the ability that's being discussed? I might be able to look into it.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@Ionliosite

What is the ability that's being discussed? I might be able to look into it.

Xeno Goku scaling to Xeno Trunks resisting the Candy Beam, and whether or not he should have Resistance to Transmutation.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, that.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I meant general hax, like Soi Fon's shikai Nigeki Kessatsu that Aizen lolnoped which he stated was because his spiritual pressure is much higher than hers. Maybe this doesnt apply to Reatsu crush or other passive haxes idk, but it definitely applies to at least Soi Fon's.

No, the entire fight was an illusion.

 

[Akreious]

Akreious, like I told Dragomer, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either Goku needs to have shown resistance or the hax doesn't work on stronger opponents which makes it a weakness of the hax.

Fandom ate FOUR of my posts so I'll keep this brief.

Giving me an Ultimatum does not change my stance.

When Dragon Ball Characters refer to strength, they can ONLY be referring to Ki because their only tool to gauge another person's strength is KI SENSE.

In Dragon Ball, Brute Force does NOT allow you to resist Hax. This is a misconception that needs to drive off a cliff and die. Resistance via an Energy (Ki) and Resistance via Brute Strength (Say, Saitama) is MASSIVELY different. So your second choice you've given me is fundamentally incorrect.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Didn't Vegito survive being absorbed by Buu only specifically because of a energy shield he created around himself? And Vegito was stronger than Buu, so if Buu's hax was weak then he wouldn't have needed a shield.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

Ginyu was able to change body with Tagoma, despite Tagoma being septillions of times stronger than him( Ginyu was literally a frog, and Tagoma was equal to Gohan).

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Didn't Vegito survive being absorbed by Buu only specifically because of a energy shield he created around himself? And Vegito was stronger than Buu, so if Buu's hax was weak then he wouldn't have needed a shield.

Plus Buu can absorb characters that are stronger than him.

 

[Akreious]

Ginyu was able to change body with Tagoma, despite Tagoma being septillions of times stronger than him( Ginyu was literally a frog, and Tagoma was equal to Gohan).

Tagoma also didn't have his guard up (AKA his Ki up) because he didn't expect a frog to swap ******* souls with him.

Y'know, something everyone else who resisted hax had up.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Didn't Vegito survive being absorbed by Buu only specifically because of a energy shield he created around himself? And Vegito was stronger than Buu, so if Buu's hax was weak then he wouldn't have needed a shield.

Plus Buu can absorb characters that are stronger than him.

This, if it was a "Buu's hax is weak" case, then he wouldn't have been able to absorb Gotenks, Mystic Gohan and West Kai. Buu also absorbed Vegito but due to shielding via a ki barrier, he was not effected.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Akreious Characters with more strength have greater amounts of Ki. So yes, the two are directly correlated.

 

[Planck69]

Strength and Ki are inter-related though, if we bring other verses into the mix. For those abilities that have been overpowered with raw Ki then I say this for the umpteenth time in this thread; What stops a character from another verse from just straight up resisting something like Hit's Time Skip and the Hakai with raw power since we know that greater Ki means greater strength?

And for goodness sake, why are we bringing up Guldo and Ginyu as though that somehow debunks that Hakai energy, Time Skip and the like can be easily overpowered by opponents with greater KI? If their hax ignore Ki then fine, they don't have the caveat. That still doesn't say the same for other characters, especially in Super.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

They're brought up because it's an immediate debunk to the "power > hax in general" arguement for DB.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It's not a debunk. Buu's Candy Beam, Hit's Time Stops and Hakai still work as "power > hax". Ginyu's body switch is an odd one since Ginyu can switch body with anyone

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

In Ressurection F stated there's a limit to his body changing ability?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I don't really remember it if it was indeed stated, but regardless, Ginyu is still an exception. And we're not even talking about h8m anyway, but about the haxes that don't work against stronger foes and how it is due to a weakness of the hax rather than a resistance to the resisting character

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

I mean, is there even a limit? Sure, people who are strong enough remain sentient, but does anyone really believe Xeno Trunks could have beaten Buu in a fight with the form of a rubber ball? Like, they still get transmuted into what Buu wants, and it still heavily limits your attack capabilities in a major way.

Vegito couldn't use any energy blasts or any attacks that were capable of actually putting Buu down for the count, for instance. He could beat the shit out of Buu, but that was it.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Everyone else when transmutated cannot move or speak. Vegito and Trunks can. Vegito was not any weaker than he was when he was normal, otherwise he would have lost to Buuhan

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

But he still can't use abilities or do anything other than physical attacks.

And again, that's a weakness of Buu's hax and not a resistance for Vegito or Trunks just because he's stronger

 

[Planck69]

Everyone else when transmutated cannot move or speak. Vegito and Trunks can. Vegito was not any weaker than he was when he was normal, otherwise he would have lost to Buuha

Just how many of these other people were in the same ball park as Buu and Vegito?

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Guess it's time to remove majority of dragon ball resistances as well as literally any verse who has resistances based on overpowering the ability because "It's the weakness of the hax" Yet another standard to go through because a DB character was doing well? Interesting