Small change to Dragon Ball Super and Heroes characters

[Vietthai96]

So DBS Goku got his time-stop resistance remove, which lead to:

DBS SSB Vegito should get his time-stop resistance remove, same with DBS Gogeta

Also Xeno Vegito and Xeno Goku: Time Stop (Repeatedly resisted Hit's attempts to freeze him in time until Hit powered up further), Xeno Goku never fight Hit so this line should not exist, but i remember back then have a similar topic discussed this.

Fu should get time manip resistance cause he scale to the like of Xeno Goku and Xeno Vegeta

Fu get his Dark King Key with his new feats from Super DBH promo anime: Ressurection (He resurrect the Universe Tree); or we wait for more Dark King Fu feats??

Sorry for my poor English

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I agree with this, plus I think you can give a better reason for Xeno Goku and co having time stop since IIRC they're capable of resisting Chronoa stopping time like Demon Gods do

 

[Planck69]

Makes sense. Xenoku and co. had other time stop feats besides Hit I think.

 

[Vietthai96]

I agree with this, plus I think you can give a better reason for Xeno Goku and co having time stop since IIRC they're capable of resisting Chronoa stopping time like Demon Gods do

I think we should leave this matter to DBH expert, cause i can't even play the game which is the main source of feats

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

@Planck69 well IDK if gameplay mechanics count, but characters like Xeno Goku can summon Chronoa to stop time against an enemy and Xeno Goku is unaffected by it.
Though if that doesn't count, characters like Mira are capable of breaking out of Chronoa's time stop in the manga

 

[Greenshifter]

It was previously agreed upon to be an immeasurable speed feat (outlier) for pre-ToP Goku and thus by extension CC Goku who Xeno Goku should scale to. Since this is not an outlier in DBH (traveling through time via sheer speed and keeping up with spatio-temporal omnipresent beings as backing evidence). Everyone relevant in DBH should be upgraded to immeasurable speed.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

is that a joke? Because the last time someone tried upgrading Heroes to immeasurable, the standards for said speed got changed

 

[Greenshifter]

I’ve been arguing temporal omnipresence vs immeasurable speed standards for 7 pages straight on Super Sonic scaling to Solaris so ain’t gonna get much worse than that.

Also I’m not joking, have fun with immeasurable getting downgraded again .

 

[Vietthai96]

It was previously agreed upon to be an immeasurable speed feat (outlier) for pre-ToP Goku and thus by extension CC Goku who Xeno Goku should scale to. Since this is not an outlier in DBH (traveling through time via sheer speed and keeping up with spatio-temporal omnipresent beings as backing evidence). Everyone relevant in DBH should be upgraded to immeasurable speed.

Sorry but i'm not made this threat for immeasurable speed DBH, you should post it elsewhere though

 

[Greenshifter]

Fair, guess I’ll create my own thread then some time in the future.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I mean real talk, I always thought that Heroes had some pretty decent immeasurable feats like the Shadow Dragons moving through infinite timelines and into the real world through speed, Mechikabura moving in a space beyond time, the mentors in Xenoverse flying to different time periods, etc.
But obvs IDK if any of that qualifies for immeasurable or not so I just wanted to give my own reason

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So, why is Immeasurable being proposed? Seems a bit outlierish.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I think Greenshifter is joking about that, the scaling from Hit thing

 

[Greenshifter]

I’m not but it should be discussed separately.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Agreed.
So to go back on topic, I agree with either removing the resistance to time stop scaling from Hit or we could reword it to say something along the lines like "Like most of the Time Patrol, is capable of resisting Chronoa stopping time. Likely scales to Demon Gods who are also capbale of resisting Chronoa's time manipulation abilties"

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Seems like Vegito/Gogeta should get their Resistances removed but the DBH characters just need their justifications to be tweaked.

 

[VinnyXD]

It was previously agreed upon to be an immeasurable speed feat (outlier) for pre-ToP Goku and thus by extension CC Goku who Xeno Goku should scale to. Since this is not an outlier in DBH (traveling through time via sheer speed and keeping up with spatio-temporal omnipresent beings as backing evidence). Everyone relevant in DBH should be upgraded to immeasurable speed.

So the whole Hit fight is a outlier?

 

[Planck69]

Just the Immeasurable speed feat Goku has.

 

[SirAlex09]

One question : Shouldn't everyone above surpressed Jiren have resistance to time stop because Jiren was moving in Hit's cage of time where time was suspended? The entire thing was related to his "power" ( = Ki level ? ).


And another thing: Time skip in Manga and Anime works differently.

Despite the explaination being the same intially , Timeskip in the Anime was a self applicable hax on oneself while in the Manga it was used on the Opponent and the oppponent could resist it by being more powerful. Hit even says after matching SSG with his full power that he will "stop" Goku for the full duration. So Goku Chou should at least keep his resistance

 

[Planck69]

That bit with Jiren was already brought up on the original thread I believe. It didn't count IIRC.

 

[SirAlex09]

But it is actually consistent with the show. Hit's timeskip evolved into a real Time Stop at the End of the fight where he froze Goku in Time while the latter was moving during the entire duration of the Time skip .

This is later confirmed when he kills the Mob boss and stated that Time is stopped. Here is where the resistance to Time stop becomes consistent :

He doesn't bother using his evolved Time Skip ( = Time stop) on him indirectly implying he doesn't think it would work on the much stronger Goku now. Instead he was trying to kill him with durability negating intangible attacks. So a resistance to it is kinda implied.

Edit : I found the dialogue at Ep. 71
Goku : "Your attacks won't work anymore"
Hit : "Do I look so charitable that I would use my timeskip on you"

Goku basically stated he is now resistant to it and Hit indirectly acknowledges it.
The thing is that Saiyan's adaptability is inferior to Hit's ability to improve the duration of his TS. So the only context in which this all makes sense is if Goku became resistant to the Time stop as a whole regardless of the duration


So when Jiren resisted his Cage of time it should logically apply to Goku etc.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Xeno Goku & Co. Resistance to Time Stop should scale as Unknown Warrior said

 

[VinnyXD]

Question was Trunks effected by Mechi Statistics Reduction?

 

[ProudLearner]

I agree to remove the ones from Super BUT the ones from Xenoverse/Heroes are legit.

They all resisted a Time Stop from Chronoa which she can increased the power of it to a multiversal scale.

Simply, they need to be rewroted.

 

[sanicspood]

It was previously agreed upon to be an immeasurable speed feat (outlier) for pre-ToP Goku and thus by extension CC Goku who Xeno Goku should scale to. Since this is not an outlier in DBH (traveling through time via sheer speed and keeping up with spatio-temporal omnipresent beings as backing evidence). Everyone relevant in DBH should be upgraded to immeasurable speed.

agreed

 

[SSJRyu1]

This is interesting to say the least. There may be enough new feats to make a new updated DBH speed thread sooner than I thought XD

 

[Dominodalek]

The Time Patrol didn't resist Chronoa's time stop themselves, but scaling from the demons should work.

Regarding Chronoa's game ability, the technique is focused around the target's body (the manga states this directly in Chapters 1 and 13), so her summoner being unaffected isn't a resistance feat.

If the Hit feat is valid for immeasurability, pretty much every Heroes character on the wiki is strong enough to scale from it.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

@Dominodalek why would scaling from the Demon Gods specfically grant them resistance to time manipulation

 

[VinnyXD]

Question was Trunks effected by Mechi Statistics Reduction?

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

@Dominodalek why would scaling from the Demon Gods specfically grant them resistance to time manipulation

Mira and Towa both broke out of Time Stop, I think.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Yeah, I don't think being stronger than one character is enough to give someone another character's Resistance, unless I'm missing something and the Time Patrol and Demons have comparable powers. If that were the case, then characters like Jiren and Kefla would have Resistance to Existence Erasure.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Yeah, I don't think being stronger than one character is enough to give someone another character's Resistance, unless I'm missing something and the Time Patrol and Demons have comparable powers. If that were the case, then characters like Jiren and Kefla would have Resistance to Existence Erasure.

Jiren not having it is stupid unless you wanna argue that Toppo stomps Jiren.

Regardless, that's the way the wiki treats it...

 

[Dominodalek]

Question was Trunks effected by Mechi Statistics Reduction?

Yes, because it comes from in-game abilities and everyone (who isn't giant or a non-combatant) are affected by them.

Yeah, I don't think being stronger than one character is enough to give someone another character's Resistance, unless I'm missing something and the Time Patrol and Demons have comparable powers. If that were the case, then characters like Jiren and Kefla would have Resistance to Existence Erasure.

In Dragon Ball it kinda is, but I don't know if this wiki might handle it differently.

 

[VinnyXD]

Buu eats Zeno GG

 

[Dominodalek]

Buu eats Zeno GG

Assuming Buu lets Zen-Oh get close enough, nothing says he couldn't.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Pretty certain we don’t currently powerscale Resistances for DB.

GoD Toppo vs Jiren flashbacks

 

[Dominodalek]

In that case I believe only Mira, Towa, SSG Xeno Trunks (via the Keysword) and the Keysword itself have feats of resisting it.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Tmw the much weaker Toppo beated the more powerful Jiren due to hax.
@Dominodalek also that may be the case but I'm sure there's feats for the other members of the Time Patrol too that just haven't been brought into the spotlight yet

 

[Vietthai96]

Yeah, I don't think being stronger than one character is enough to give someone another character's Resistance, unless I'm missing something and the Time Patrol and Demons have comparable powers. If that were the case, then characters like Jiren and Kefla would have Resistance to Existence Erasure.

Well that is some DB thing is, sometime you could just power-up to crush hax, and then your opponent power-up themself to make hax stronger

I agree to remove the ones from Super BUT the ones from Xenoverse/Heroes are legit.

They all resisted a Time Stop from Chronoa which she can increased the power of it to a multiversal scale.

Simply, they need to be rewroted.

Well that my idea too, that why i said those line bout resisting Hit's Time Stop should not exist because Xeno Goku never fought Hit, but i remember back then have a similar topic regard the problem to rewrite the sentence

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama

What do you think about this?