Slight Piccolo Upgrade

[LordWhis]

Cell Saga Piccolo should be High 4-C+ (and subsequent versions of him should scale even higher)

He was comparable to SSJ Full Power Goku and should be superior to a suppressed Perfect Cell.

 

[Promestein]

Where do you get him being comparable to Goku from? He was certainly strong, but he was weaker than Vegeta at the time, and only confirmed to be stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell.

 

[Dark649]

Piccolo was nowhere comparable to Goku who by using not nearly half of his power shocked everyone including Piccolo and implied that he cannot beat Cell.

 

[LordWhis]

@Promestein:

He asked Goku whether he could beat Cell with his weighted clothing on, indicating that 75% of his power was at least significantly stronger than 50% MSSJ Goku. Which should make them pretty comparable.

The fact that he asked the question after feeling a suppressed PC's power, proves that he was at least stronger than a suppressed PC.

Trunks was in awe of his power.

 

[Thundereld]

If I remember correctly piccolo put up a better fight with the cell.jr than vegeta,trunks and injured goku.In fact he fought multiple of them. Could that help with the upgrade or was it anime only?

 

[Dark649]

Anime only, also i feel like that GD2 Vegeta and GD3 Trunks should be just at least High 4-C, simply because Cell was heavily suppressing himself. Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo are considerably below MSS Goku and Gohan and Cell at full power is even stronger than them.

 

[LordWhis]

@Thundereld: You are right, I forgot about that.

 

[LordWhis]

Piccolo was nowhere comparable to Goku who by using not nearly half of his power shocked everyone including Piccolo and implied that he cannot beat Cell.

Pre-training Piccolo.

Post training piccolo was confident of his superiority to 50% mssj Goku even with only 75% of his full power.

 

[Promestein]

Piccolo also couldn't budge SPC at all, but Vegeta managed to distract him a bit.

 

[Dark649]

Piccolo is 4-A at that point of the Anime, in the manga is High 4-C by being above [but not that much to] Semi-Cell, but no at least since he is not comparable to Grade 2 Vegeta, who can fodderize Semi-Cell.

 

[LordWhis]

@Promestein: not really, he just annoyed cell, causing him to look at him and shout, and even then only after cell killed trunks.

 

[LordWhis]

Piccolo is 4-A at that point of the Anime, in the manga is High 4-C by being above [but not that much to] Semi-Cell, but no at least since he is not comparable to Grade 2 Vegeta, who can fodderize Semi-Cell.

Trunks who is superior to vegeta, was in AWE of Piccolo.

 

[Promestein]

Trunks isn't superior to Vegeta. He was only 'stronger' with USSJ and we all know how that panned out.

 

[Dark649]

Post training piccolo was confident of his superiority to 50% mssj Goku even with only 75% of his full power.

That was just an impression of him to look tough, in reality in the manga he is shown to cannot handle Cell nor the Cell Jr, and later feared to fight Shin.

 

[LordWhis]

@Promestein: Even as an assj, he still put up a much better fight against cell than vegeta. Heck, even as a ussj he did better than vegeta against cell and in fact better than himself as an assj.

He would never have asked the question if he wasn't superior to 50% mssj Goku and suppressed PC.

@Dark: Piccolo is the last person to try and look tough, even Goku was astonished by his power and actually says "eve you aren't strong enough".

Piccolo didn't fight shin because of status.

 

[Promestein]

Cell was toying with them both the entire time. He let Trunks do decently against him and then effortlessly dodged every attack when he got a bit more serious. It's not a good basis for anything.

Piccolo explicitly described Shin as stronger than him.

 

[LordWhis]

We rate even a suppressed Pc as High 4-C+.

 

[LordWhis]

Piccolo explicitly described Shin as stronger than him.

Scans ?

 

[Dark649]

We rate even a suppressed Pc as High 4-C+.

No, that is for not his casual power.

 

[LordWhis]

Trunks- Large Star level+ as a Super Saiyan (Perfect Cell said that Trunks' most powerful form had greater raw power than his suppressed state. Cell was much swifter, and had better coordination)

 

[Promestein]

"Strength Checker wrote:

Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P12.3-4

Context: after Piccolo resigns from his and Kaioshin's match

Goku: "That much, Piccolo?..."

Piccolo: "Yeah…Our dimensions…are too different…"

Kuririn: "Yo-you're kidding, right? Stop joking around! I-I've got to fight him next."

Note: Piccolo's line is a pretty standard way of saying that someone is stronger than you. You can find a lot of instances of people being described as in "a different dimension" throughout these quotes, like Tenshinhan talking about Super Saiyan Goku, or the narrator describing final form Freeza. In Viz the line is made vaguer ("He is a different order of being"), which makes it sound like Piccolo could just be talking about how Kaioshin is a super-god, rather than about his strength per-say. Anyway, though Piccolo is pretty much flat-out saying Kaioshin is way stronger than him here, you could still argue that he's either mistaken or lying...I guess."

"Daizenshuu 7 wrote:

His strength is far superior to the Super Namekian Piccolo, but he was still the weakest out of the 5 Kaioshins who used to exist. He was beaten up to the verge of death by Majin Buu both before and after Buu's revival."

 

[LordWhis]

Daizenshuu is non-canon.

He was obviously talking about status when he said dimensions and at best he lied that he was weaker.

buu saga piccolo is ssj2 tier, there is no way supreme kai would be a match for him. He was in awe of BASE Goku.

 

[Dark649]

buu saga piccolo is ssj2 tier, there is no way supreme kai would be a match for him. He was in awe of BASE Goku.

No.

 

[Promestein]

He wasn't. The same wording has been used in the past and has very clearly referred to power in those cases, such as Tien using it to describe the difference between his and SSJ Goku's power.

I think Supreme Kai was more surprised that a mortal had reached that level of power.

SSJ2 level Piccolo during the Buu Saga is laughable. Maybe he is, but he does approximately jack shit, so who knows? We can only base him off of what he's done.

 

[LordWhis]

Piccolo was definitely ssj2... Damn, I'm derailing my own thread.

Nonetheless, cell saga piccolo was definitely comparable to mssj Goku and suppressed PC and should thus be large star level+

 

[Dark649]

No again, the story established that Piccolo is considerably below SS2 Gohan, Goku and Vegeta.

 

[LordWhis]

Piccolo was clearly portrayed as superior to Vegeta. Trunks who is > Vegeta was in awe of Piccolo. Also, why else would he ask Goku whether he could beat PC, he had just seen PC fodderize vegeta.

He'd have to be insane to ask Goku that question if he was weaker than vegeta.

 

[Promestein]

Obviously Piccolo is stronger than Vegeta after his first trip in the chamber, but after the second, Vegeta's obviously surpassed him.

 

[Dark649]

Base Trunks did not referred to any forms, also Piccolo only surpassed Semi-Cell, SS Vegeta and Trunks after the first Time Chamber, but he returned to be inferior to them after the second training.

 

[Thundereld]

Maybe piccolo overestemated shin like vegeta in beginning.Later as majin vegeta he admits that overestemated shin.

 

[LordWhis]

@Promestein & Dark:

Well then my upgrade is valid since we currently rate 1st trip Vegeta and trunks as large star level +

Vegeta- Large Star level+ as Super Saiyan after training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber (Effortlessly toyed with Semi-Perfect Cell and could've killed a casual Perfect Cell with his Final Flash)

 

[LordWhis]

So for obvious reasons Cell saga piccolo should be Large Star Level+ (Superior to SSJ Vegeta after training in the hyperbolic time chamber)

 

[Dark649]

Well the things i can say is that Grade 2 Vegeta and Grade 3 Trunks should be downgraded to at least High 4-C with Piccolo being there. At best he could be High 4-C+ in Buu and RoF saga, but no 4-B.

 

[LordWhis]

Well, until they get downgraded to 4-c, can Piccolo be upgraded to 4-c+ ?

 

[KinkiestSins]

So for obvious reasons Cell saga piccolo should be Large Star Level+ (Superior to SSJ Vegeta after training in the hyperbolic time chamber)

And he is superior...how? Edit: I agree with Dark and Prom btw.

 

[Dark649]

No, and the killing a casual PF is referred to Grade 2 Vegeta, not regular SS Vegeta.

 

[LordWhis]

@kinkiestsins: Coz everyone agreed to it ?

 

[KinkiestSins]

Coz everyone agreed to it ?

No, they agreed to Piccolo > First Trip Vegeta

But Piccolo < Second Trip Vegeta

 

[LordWhis]

The killing a casual PF is referred to Grade 2 Vegeta, not regular SS Vegeta.

Did vegeta ever use regular ssj after the hyperbolic training ?

Nonetheless Piccolo is definitely superior to assj vegeta.

 

[LordWhis]

No, they agreed to Piccolo > First Trip Vegeta

But Piccolo < Second Trip Vegeta

Even 1st trip Vegeta is high 4-c+ so the point is moot.