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Skill Tier List #1: Video Games vs Comics

Maverick_Zero_X

Maverick_Zero_X

She/Her
VS Battles
Administrator
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For the hell of it, I've randomly selected a bunch of characters between different media to rank their combative skill in comparison to one another. Rules are simple: make your case for one of the characters listed below and their placements will be decided through further discussion and voting throughout the thread.

If discussion between two characters reaches an impasse, a separate a Fun and Games thread should be created where the two are pitted against each other with the following ruleset:
  • Stats equalized. The winner must be decided strictly on their skill, not stats or hax.
  • Otherwise, the rules will conform to those of a typical versus thread.

Marvel Reps
DC9iwm7.png

DC Reps​

word-image-62093-1.png


Video Game Reps​

latest.png

Most skilled in each category​

  • Marvel: Shang-Chi (Runner-up: Iron Fist)
  • DC: Karate Kid (Runner-up: To Be Determined, discussion pending, currently between Cassandra Cain and Richard Dragon)
  • VG: To Be Determined, discussion pending (Current Nominations include
    Marisa Kirisame, Sonic the Hedgehog, V1)

Overall Ranking





































 
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Ngl Little Mac is probably the least skilled. While what he's done is pretty impressive, being a Three-time Championship Boxer and fighting a variety of other skilled boxers. Even Scout (Whos probably the second least skilled) has a good few years as a Mercenary and with the help of his team can fight against waves of robotic doubles.
 
Marvel in order:

1. Shang-Chi
2. Iron Fist
3. Daredevil/Elektra
4. Black Panther/Captain America
5. Taskmaster
6. Wolverine/Deadpool
7. Winter Soldier/Bullseye
9. Crossbones/Thor

Didn’t understand how Thor and Crossbones are on the list though.

DC in order:

1. Karate Kid
2. Cassandra
3. Shiva/Richard Dragon
4. Batman/Nightwing
5. Azrael
6. Bane
7. Deathstroke
8. Black Canary
9. Robin

I won’t rank the other two because I don’t know about them. I also ranked both Marvel and DC using feats, fights, statements and martial arts background. So I don’t care if someone in #2 lost to the #5 because that’s one fight and does not represent the character as a whole, as Iron Fist is consistently the Marvel’s #2 but Marvel uses him to hype someone else.
 
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This rank will help anyone that want to follow to rank the other characters on this thread.
 
I suppose I'll start the video game cast and rep the character I'm most knowledgeable in. Sonic.

  • Able to mimic abilities after seeing the technique used once, such as Chaos Control, and did so even when the Emerald he had was a fake with weaker energy. This extends to his own refined techniques, as displayed by Classic Sonic being able to quickly master the Homing Attack and Boost.
  • Has a specific fighting style complimented by both his high speed and ability to curl into a ball, tailored towards utilizing momentum from both his attacks and techniques. But on top of this, Sonic shows knowledge in other styles; several of his moves and attacks mimic Capoeria (Advance series), boxing, was deemed the successor to the secret Linshao Kung Fu , and can defeat Espio in battle despite his training in Ninjutsu (Sonic Generations).
  • Refers to Knuckles' moves as easy to read when teaching Emerl how to fight, despite Knuckles being verbatim referred to as a master martial artist.
  • Evaded attacks and minorly assaulted Dark Gaia in his Base, an eldritch being of Darkness who has been fighting Light Gaia every few tens of millions of years since the beginning of time in a constant cycle of Light and Dark, and outfought it completely alongside Light Gaia as Super Sonic (Unleashed).
  • Easily thrashed the Egg Dragoon, a machine with years of research on his movement, while in a transformation that stripped him of that trademark speed and many of those related techniques. He later did so again, this time as his usual self. Even his Classic self, who is years less experienced than Modern Sonic, is able to do this.
  • Outskilled alternate versions of Shadow (Lancelot), Blaze (Percival), and Knuckles (Gawain) that have dedicated their lives to swordsmanship as the Knights of the Round Table, being the greatest Knights in the world excluding King Arthur whose illusion Sonic also bested in combat (Black Knight). This was after less than a day of training in swordsmanship, to the point where Sonic leaves a legacy of becoming one of the greatest Knights of all-time.
  • Combined with the above, he quickly mimicked and mastered not one but three different styles of swordsmanship. Knight Style for balance of power and speed (used by Lancelot), Paladin style for power (used by Galahad), and Cavalier style for speed (used by Percival) after fighting the Knights who used them.
  • Consistently fodderizes Metal Sonic, a robot designed to match him in all regards which is constantly repaired and upgraded. It's a joke at this point tbh.
  • Thrashed Ultimate Emerl in under 30 seconds when nobody else was capable of doing so, to Shadow's admittance, and who had all of Sonic's own techniques alongside all the techniques of his friends on top of 4000 years worth of combat experience. This not only includes their moves and abilities granted from Sonic's friends, but things down to their specific ways of running and their stances when remaining idle during combat (Sonic Battle). In fact, Emerl had so much combat information stored within him (as that was his purpose) that Tails' Supercomputer offed itself trying to gather all the data..
  • Referred to by Dr. Starline
    as the only person who can stand up to Dr. Eggman through sheer skill alone    .
  • As Frontiers shows, Sonic can even hack Eggman's technology.
  • Bested Master Zik, the oldest member of the Deadly Six, who is over 1000 years old and has trained the other Zeti. Oh, and he also basically stomped each member of the Deadly Six twice (Lost World).
  • Has triumphed over Eggman over 227,000 times despite his intellect, legion of mechas and robots, constant preparation, and downright reality warping-level of technology.

Edit: I've put in some links here while I've had the time.
 
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Maverick_Zero_X said:
For the hell of it, I've randomly selected a bunch of characters between different media to rank their combative skill in comparison to one another. Rules are simple: make your case for one of the characters listed below and their placements will be decided through further discussion and voting throughout the thread.


Marvel Reps​

DC9iwm7.png

DC Reps​

word-image-62093-1.png


Video Game Reps​

latest.png

Most skilled in each category​

  • Marvel:
  • DC:
  • VG:

Overall Ranking






































Click to expand...
Where’s Shatterstar 😶‍🌫️
 
I'm just gonna copy-paste Zero's intelligence justification here.

Built to surpass the original Mega Man in every way, including combat prowess. An experienced leader and hunter of the Maverick Hunters. A master infiltrator (leader of the 0th Shinobi Corp) and the foremost swordsman amongst the Maverick Hunters as well as a skilled marksman. Cool-headed and taciturn, he rarely loses his composure and always finds a way to achieve victory. Even after losing his memories during the events of Mega Man Zero he retains his legendary combat technique and determined personality, allowing him to take down the likes of Copy X and calling the fight disappointing when compared to the original X twice over, despite Copy X having the combat skills of the original, who has been active in combat for a century. Even outside of combat, he is adept at self-reparation, able to look at Mega Man X's damaged X-Buster and use its schematics and parts to upgrade his own Z-Buster, despite the X-Buster and his Z-Buster being technology that no one at the time of the X series even understands (with only literal geniuses such as Dr. Light, Dr. Wily and Ciel and her ancestor being the only ones to truly understand their schematics). In the Command Mission continuity, has accumulated two hundred years of combat experience
Zero has been fighting against Mavericks of all kinds throughout the Mega Man X series with various unique and different abilities. Upon awakening, he instantly annihilated an entire regime of Maverick Hunters, and then proceeded to nearly defeat the initially more skilled Sigma, who wields a saber, with a metal bar- eventually ripping off his arm after Zero was disarmed of it. As he traverses throughout the games' stages he annihilates enemies of all kinds and numbers in his wake, including the many, many Nightmare Viruses that swarm the bases, outnumbering him massively. He's capable of using many different weapons effectively upon first use, such as the V-Hanger and D-Glaive. Of course, the Mavericks themselves add the most of Zero's experience- most of which have an extreme range advantage in addition to many having flight, making Zero an expert at weaving into close range to even land a single hit. He's defeated time stoppers such as Dark Necrobat, who sends swarms of bats and large sonic waves that cover the screen to damage foes. Jet Stingray sends swarms of tiny bots that litter the bottom of the battlefield, in which Zero has to essentially fight on the walls exclusively. Split Mushroom, Spike Rosered, Infinity Mijinion, and Flame Hyenard all abuse their cloning ability in battle both to confuse Zero to hit the wrong one and to have a huge number advantage, especially in Mijinion's case, to no avail. He can get past Shield Sheldon's all-encompassing shields and even Gate's invulnerability to attacks. He battles Snipe Anteator on a long, thin tube that the latter can easily crawl and all along it while Zero is forced to remain on top of the platform with limited mobility. Large opponents such as Rainy Turtloid and Frost Walrus are also no stranger to Zero, being able to manuever around them despite their surprising speed in the former's case. He's fought in icy areas such as in Blizzard Wolfang's stage, where his wall-jumping mobility is non-existent, as well as his mobility in general. In Rainy Turtloid's stage, he must traverse and fight in environments where falling means instant death with very few platforms or no platforms at all, while constantly being pelted by corrosive rain and having to find cores to disable it- sometimes in total darkness if the Nightmare Effect takes place. He can adapt to Gravity Antonion's gravity flipping, changing the battlefield's topography while at the same time fighting a Maverick who takes advantage of the new layout. He can fight through Blaze Heatnix's stage, along with the Maverick himself, despite the area sporting near-screen covering instant death flames- some enemies using it to their advantage as cover for their weak points. His fight with Crescent Grizzly has him dealing with surprise underground attacks at all times, and his battle against Cyber Peacock sports him constantly having to dodge extremely persistent homing attacks as well as surprise teleportation ambushes. He fought and defeated Magma Dragoon, a master of all martial arts on the planet whose skills were the basis of the entirety of the Maverick Hunters' training in hand-to-hand combat. In the battle with Dragoon, Zero was trapped in an area where the lava on each side of the stage threatened in instantly kill him, along with walls that bait him to wall jump so Dragoon can summon flame pillars from the lava pits- the only other option being to fight Dragoon on the main platform, in which Dragoon is extremely erratic to fight, making the Buster a better option, yet Zero still managed to fight with only the Z-Saber. Volt Kraken's electrical attacks that crawled along the wall combined with flight gave him complete area control, forcing Zero to wall jump carefully along the area on his terms- yet Zero still manages to close the distance several times to eventually claim victory. He can even make self-repairs on his own, despite being what is essentially just a torso and a singular arm. Can fight Mega Man X on multiple occasions, who possess many hax abilities and armors all at once to change fighting styles on a dime. He is also designed to be superior to the original Mega Man in every way- including combat skill, who has fought many, many battles against an astonishing 88 Robot Masters, robots comparable or superior to himself, and can potentially fight them all with just a simple Mega Buster. | Despite the Mega Man Zero series being shorter, Zero has fought many battles in disadvantageous positions to add to his experience. Just like before in Mega Man X, Zero can pretty much pick up any weapon- even a Buster of the Resistance, some of the weakest armaments in the setting at the time- and begin wreaking havoc on enemy forces without any clue on what is happening despite just being woken up from a 100 year slumber. He's even capable of tearing off weapons from enemies with his Z-Knuckle and using them arguably more effectively himself, despite some of these weapons not being even designed to be handheld, and were more like body parts of the enemy he dismantled with his hands. Armies of Mavericks were slain by his blade with ease for an entire year, to the point where even though he was blinded by an eternal sandstorm designed by Neo Arcadia's "perfect" countermeasure program, affected by the endless sand's ECM (electronic countermeasures) effects- which are supposed to paralyze Zero and constantly deceive his senses to hinder his combat abilities, and despite being heavily injured over time- he finds slaying enemies "not fun anymore". Most of his battles against Mavericks are arguably more difficult than his battles in Mega Man X, with enemies constantly making attacks that cover a majority of the screen where Zero needs to weave in his own attacks during them- the enemy never stopping to really give him a "turn" per say. He can fight on time limits where he needs to defeat Aztec Falcon within a minute despite being just being awoken after one hundred years with no recollection or acquisition of his previous combat skill. Can fight effectively underwater on icy floors against Fairy Leviathan, Childre Inarabitta, and Tech Kraken- who are built and specially designed for underwater operations and combat. He can fight and win in environments where falling means instant death with very few platforms like against Hyleg Ourobockle- sometimes when enemies sport attacks that can target all of the remaining area left he can stand on or drag him into the abyss with spammable attacks or against foes that large in nature to cover the remaining space such as Cyball in Mega Man Zero 4. Can fight Anubis Necromancess III in an area perfectly suited to the necromancer, easily outnumbering Zero. Can fight against units of enemy forces while escorting extremely weak allies such as Ciel and other Resistance members- or in the formers case, fight a Golem despite having just awoken and forgotten most of his skill to free Ciel and cut its arm off without hurting her. Fought various users of flight, which have an inherit advantage against Zero's ground fighting. Can fight in conditions where he can easily be swept off his feet off of platforms by intense winds, even against Pegasolta Eclair, who not only flies, but possesses attacks that cover the entire environment. Can fight in areas where the extreme heat threatens to deal massive damage aside from very small spots on the battle field- while still having a fully-fledged battle against Sol Titanium. Fights and can tell the difference between Hidden Phantom and Phoenix Magnion's clones and the real deal. Can defeat foes that can stop time such as Popla Cocapetri. Can defeat Volteel Biblio who utilizes hit and run tactics, abusing the underwater environment that has interconnected holes to suit his fighting style while Zero has to adapt to it, being a ground-based fighter. Can defeat Deathtanz Mantisk, whose bladed battle skills were so great he defeated twenty experimental test machines, all possibly as skilled as Magma Dragoon, whose skills are used to train new Maverick Hunters in martial arts. Can fight effectively despite his movement being heavily limited by magnetic fields. Can adapt to Noble Mandrago's fighting style, which was heavily added by the environment around them, allowing Noble Mandrago to burrow and appear anywhere in the room while limiting his ability to wall jump and grip onto the floor. Can defeat Omega after being amplified by the Dark Elf, who can stomp Sage Harpuia without taking any damage from Harpuia's attacks- despite not getting an amp himself to compete, for three entire forms, Omega's last and true form being Omega Zero, who is stronger than Zero and has all of the more versatile abilities of his Mega Man X self. Tretista Kelverian and Mino Magnus's massive sizes and attacks control huge amounts of the stage, yet Zero manages to weave himself past those attacks to achieve victory. Is constantly shown to be able to defeat entire platoons of forces such as at the end of Mega Man Zero and the many times he fights hordes of enemies in an enclosed location. Can fight Kuwagust Anchus and Herculious Anchus at the same time. Manages to counter Phoenix Magnion's infamous evasive combat style involving Illusion Creation by baiting out a counterattack to use as his opening. Defeats Burble Hekelot, likely preventing him from using his gimmick, eating caterpillar Reploids to make himself nearly impervious to damage. He is often praised by Fighting Fefnir to be amazing at fighting, and is the sole reason why the forces of Neo Arcadia have been pushed back by the Resistance due to his sheer combat skills, Copy X specifically referring to his combat skills terrifying.
 
Vsbler at the prospect of properly formating their posts for readability (They unironically loved the old brickwall P&A sections on Profiles without bolding/Bulletpoints) (Imlosingmymindhelpwhydoyouwritepostslikethat)
 
Yujiro slams all of them no-diff fr fr
Does Wonder Woman fully scale to Ares' "Every Martial Art" bullshit?
 
I think every single martial artist from the top 10 has this same statement or simply destroyed someone with this statement, so yeah I think she does.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
I think every single martial artist from the top 10 has this same statement or simply destroyed someone with this statement, so yeah I think she does.
Click to expand...
Then I've got no idea.

On a side note, what the Hell is Scout doing here?
 
Hm, idk. I'll start debating when someone say something about the comics guys.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
Marvel in order:

1. Shang-Chi
2. Iron Fist
3. Daredevil/Elektra
4. Black Panther/Captain America
5. Taskmaster
6. Wolverine/Deadpool
7. Winter Soldier/Bullseye
9. Crossbones/Thor

Didn’t understand how Thor and Crossbones are on the list though.

DC in order:

1. Karate Kid
2. Cassandra
3. Shiva/Richard Dragon
4. Batman/Nightwing
5. Azrael
6. Bane
7. Deathstroke
8. Black Canary
9. Robin

I won’t rank the other two because I don’t know about them. I also ranked both Marvel and DC using feats, fights, statements and martial arts background. So I don’t care if someone in #2 lost to the #5 because that’s one fight and does not represent the character as a whole, as Iron Fist is consistently the Marvel’s #2 but Marvel uses him to hype someone else.
Click to expand...
I'd say Richard is better than Cass and Shiva
 
I put Nightwing alongside Batman because of current events. Idk if post Flashpoint is being considered here. If not, he's below.
 
I would question some of the picks here. Not to toot my own horn (actually absolutely to toot my own horn) but some of the top tiers here I feel would probably fit better, especially on the videogames end (Even if we're sticking to ones that aren't super obscure people like Travis, V1 and the Rider I think could fit. Though Archer and maybe Blade would be a good addition to the comics side).
 
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I don't have much to say about most of these people. I will however back up M3X on the fact that Karate Kid is way above anyone else in the verse (except for one of his rogues that's in like 3 issues) in skill, not even close.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Marisa Kirisame
Click to expand...
Haven't I suffered enough?
General Skill/Experience

Marisa has been fighting and exterminating youkai for decades at this point (nearly 30 games across over 25 years, including numerous manga and light novels), to the point where she's learned the smell of blood from experience on the battlefield alone. To her, a world without conflict is Hell, and she claims to be an experienced veteran. She regularly engages in image training (essentially playing out an entire battle in her head using mental images), winning 101 times out of 100. She's highly skilled in the art of danmaku, creating highly complex bullet hell patterns on the fly, and dodging whatever everyone else throws at her even when their attacks spawn from nowhere or remove her senses. In the former example, this is against Sakuya Izayoi, who can throw her knives so precisely that they bounce off the flat edge of her other knives dozens of times in succession, striking her opponent in every single reflection if she wants. In some cases, she's fought while her senses and perception of space were warped and she was forced to deal with reality and hallucinations dematerializing and rematerializing. Aside from that, she's an expert in improvised weaponry, using a regular broomstick as an improvised rifle, or stringing together melee combos while simultaneously using it for flight. During Unconnected Marketeers, she was able to master the use of ability cards so quickly that their creator outright mentioned her brilliance in using them. She possesses encyclopedic knowledge on hundreds of different of techniques, many of which she's only seen a single time (this sort of insane memory is consistent btw), detailing countless specific traits of these spell cards in the process. She's also highly skilled in copying magic, being able to do so after seeing a technique once, and magicians have a tendency to experiment with such techniques to improve it beyond what its original user can do (on top of mimicry like this being implied to be the norm).

Alongside Reimu, she can track down dangerous youkai across all of Gensokyo for days straight without any rest, or climb entire mountains that are being constantly battered by high winds without any equipment. During the events of LoLK, her canon ending involves getting a no-miss 1CC throughout the entire game (which basically just means doing a single flawless run in what is considered one of the most difficult Touhou games).

Her skill is so great that she has become one of the strongest known users of fire magic in Gensokyo in a short timeframe, despite her natural water affinity (something already noted to be "quite a feat"); This is specifically important because using magic that doesn't align with your elemental affinity can straight up nullify the spell you're using, which means Marisa has trained to overcome supernatural power null just by being that good at magic. She's also fought and defeated people who possess elemental affinities that should cancel out her own - Something that's noted to effectively decide a fight before it even begins. That's not to say she lacks skill in water magic; In fact, she's so good at it, that youkai whose entire existence revolves around the manipulation of water and have been controlling the waves for years consider Marisa highly skilled in water-based techniques. She's a savant in the field of magic in general, pushing forth new theories of magic and tackling pre-existing theories, such as elemental affinities being limited to five types, and the new spells she develops surprise even youkai. Her knowledge in magical theory is great enough that centuries old youkai like Suika admit her theories are spot-on; This includes breaking down the hidden power of the oni, which is inherently impossible to even fathom, as it is powered directly by remaining unknowable.

Getting a little more extreme, she can dodge weather like rain or snow, and in fact considers them easy to dodge. This is supported by how even fodder enemies like fairies train by dodging falling snowflakes, which if you didn't know, is physically impossible. She's also highly adaptable, going from being dumbfounded by the illusion obscuring the true moon in Imperishable Night, before later seeing through it in her bad ending (the game takes place over the course of about 5-6 hours lol). In IaMP, she's noted to have terrible martial arts skills, but within the course of a couple of fights, she's mastered CQC to the extent of matching and later even surpassing Meiling, a highly skilled martial artist who trains regularly and whose skills are a rarity among youkai.

Enhanced Senses/ESP

Marisa has a lot of these so I'll just list them all lol

She can sense spatial distortions, sources of magical energy, a person's aura, the pure energy possessed by Junko, someone's power level, or the amount of "spring" they possess. She's noted to have a good nose that lets her detect the smell of blood or youkai, the smell of death itself, treasure, or track down the Occult Balls across Gensokyo in a single day, something noted to be a ridiculous feat. This includes locations that are above the clouds, or even The Palace of Earth Spirits, a place within Former Hell, which is an Otherworld and therefore a completely separate dimension that can't be accessed normally. Her eyes and nose are so sensitive that it's actually extremely easy for her senses to overwhelm her. She can see through the disguise of experienced tanuki like Mamizou, something not even Reimu can do (see below). She's also fought in dark conditions totally fine, even when afflicted with Mystia's ability to induce night blindness. Her ESP can detect the magic power being manipulated by Okina Matara, something that jizo like Narumi are unable to do despite their innate ability to detect magic power. For some ungodly reason, her ESP also lets her detect if a player has continued. It should be noted that Marisa's ESP works perfectly fine on youkai, which possess "unreadable atmospheres", which also make them nigh-impossible to adapt to by extension.

Stealth

For starters, she's able to sneak into heavily guarded locations like Eientei, which was being guarded by a number of youkai rabbits. Youkai rabbits possess the already heightened senses of regular youkai (vision in pitch-black conditions, infrared vision, etc), on top of even sharper senses, which also includes the ability to see the souls of living beings, or possibly even the "pulse" of the moon. Not only that, but they can detect people's wavelengths, tap into the minds of those around them, and are inherently linked like a pseudo-hivemind. Marisa snuck past dozens of youkai rabbits with minimal effort.

This is somehow not her most absurd feat; While speaking with Reimu on one occasion, they were interrupted by Yuyuko and Satori. When Reimu mentions Marisa, she realizes she's just... gone. So despite being in two people's direct line of sight (and a third person's peripheral vision), Marisa practically just vanished into thin air. Already absurd, but let's look at the enhanced senses she'd have to bypass to do that:

-Reimu has an inherent intuition that lets her track down people and locations innately, quite literally a 6th sense. It is superior to other forms of ESP, and she's used it to track down locations like Eientei, which exists outside of time, history, and the world itself. She can pinpoint the locations of 18 separate beings at once just by focusing, easily see through illusions or disguises, detect people's auras, see nonexistent beings, follow trails of power to track people down, or detect the energy leaking from a person's body. Perhaps most notably though, is the aforementioned feat of navigating her way to Eientei. This is something characters like Aya cannot accomplish deliberately, and her senses are good enough to hear the sound generated by entire alternate dimensions (cosmic awareness lmao), be described as completely transcending the world that Marisa perceives, feel energy that is on the verge of disappearing from existence, hear rumors on the wind, or just... generally be really good. So, Marisa's stealth > Reimu's senses > Aya's enhanced senses bordering on cosmic fvcking awareness.

-Satori has some of those good youkai senses I mentioned before, in addition to her abilities as a telepath; Even when she doesn't intend to, she's constantly reading not just the thoughts of those around her, but the leftover traces of those thoughts that remain after a person has already disappeared... Which means Marisa's stealth isn't just evading physical detection, but also completely eliminating any traces of her own thoughts.

-Yuyuko admittedly doesn't have much in the way of bullshit feats, but she can detect a corpse under a tree from meters away and immediately deduce how long it had been decaying for.

She's also disappeared from the perception of Flandre, who can detect a person's disposition. So, in conclusion, her stealth borders on straight up invisibility.

Social Influencing

Idk if this really counts as skill, but eh, fvck it. She managed to trick Tewi Inaba into eating a poisonous leaf, and Tewi is someone whose knowledge on poison is superior to that of Medicine Melancholy, someone who is quite literally made of poison, was born as a result of poison, and has mastered the use of various poisons to a degree that nobody else has. She could talk Yorihime out of killing her and a handful of others despite being tied up, or make Utsuho, someone consumed by divine madness driving her to reduce the planet to ashes, completely submissive to her.

Intstinctive Reaction

Marisa has perhaps some of the most insane showings of this I've seen before. On two separate occasions, she dueled and won against Koishi Komeiji, who does not exist. The nature of her nonexistence makes her impossible to perceive (something Marisa herself notes), as is her danmaku. All traces of her existence are erased, and even in the case someone does detect her, her attacks are completely unreadable and they forget about her in a matter of seconds. Notably, due to lacking a conscious mind, every single action Koishi takes is subconscious, meaning she has 24/7 instinctive action. This is on top of her manipulation of the subconscious, wherein she is able to make people completely unaware of her attacks, basically perceiving them as if there's no threat at all.

There is, of course, also the time she casually dodged attacks from Youmu Konpaku while sitting down and drinking (and her sake not even drop!). Youmu is a master swordswoman in her own right, but in this scenario she was also being actively amplified by Clownpiece's torch, which brings out a person's full potential. Even without that, though, she's fast enough to casually blitz Aya Shameimaru, as well as fight entire danmaku battles and win without realizing it. Aya herself can also fight entire battles without realizing, and is so fast that Sakuya needs to use her time stop to track her movement... and Sakuya is able to keep up with beings who can move faster than Marisa can track (so Youmu's combat speed >>> Aya >>> Sakuya >>> Marisa). To recap, that's three degrees of blitzing and instinctive action being dodged by someone who's casually sitting down, enjoying a nice meal, and chatting with her friends.

FWIW, she can also dodge attacks she can't perceive using her mind's eye, but that just supports what I've already said.

Scaling

Given the nature of Touhou, there are a lot of skill feats other characters have performed, and Marisa scales to a good number of them. Compared to youkai, it appears as though her dodging is like that of bits of paper floating through the air; Impressive, given youkai have the precision to roll dice in such a way that perfectly replicates the previous roll's angle, force, rotation, and result. Her danmaku is on the same level as gods like Suwako, who has lived for hundreds of years and was a noted leader in her own time. She's fought against and defeated enemies like Yuyuko, who can fight with her eyes closed and possesses an unreadable fighting style, Remilia, who is stated to be a spell card veteran and can fight her own afterimages, and Satori Komeiji, who can aimdodge attacks by reading an opponent's thoughts (to the point where tengu capable of blitzing her believe they need to turn their thoughts off in order to even take a picture of her), utilize any attack that her opponent has previously faced or even merely heard about, and experience premonitions of the future. She's superior to fodder enemies like moon rabbits, many of whom are war veterans, and can learn how to engage in spell card duels and even beat three separate, more experienced opponents mere seconds after their first exposure to the concept. This sort of fast learning is consistent among spell card users, as characters like Byakuren and the Tsukumo sisters could master their use mere seconds after being unsealed after centuries and born into existence, respectively. She's fought and defeated Tenshi Hinanawi, whose sword passively analyzes and adapts to the strengths and weaknesses of her opponent, and Eirin Yagokoro, who has quite literally existed for an infinite period of time. Finally, she was able to come up with a strategy to beat Okina Matara shortly after her initial defeat, as well as beat her the second time around despite Okina being able to react to and deflect surprise attacks while deafened.
She's currently beating Sora's ass in a different thread, so make of that what you will.
 
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I feel like a lot of those feats are just nonsensical. Like there's some good stuff but like, i don't think it's physically possible for a human-sized person to dodge rain, win 101 out of 100 times, or dodge someone who's so fast you can't even perceive them, I don't think it's really skill to do something that cannot physically happen.
 
It's bullshit skill, not really a superpower. The only "superpower" is his PC.
 
Armorchompy said:
I feel like a lot of those feats are just nonsensical. Like there's some good stuff but like, i don't think it's physically possible for a human-sized person to dodge rain, win 101 out of 100 times, or dodge someone who's so fast you can't even perceive them, I don't think it's really skill to do something that cannot physically happen.
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I didn't know we were using the same basis as the other skill thread, oops. Anyways, @LephyrTheRevanchist did point out that even if the dodging aspect of the weather feats are unusable, they should still be usable as an analysis/perception feat (one that's still absurd, obviously). The 101 out of 100 stuff is clearly exaggerated, but I think it just goes to show she can beat herself extremely consistently in image training. The IR stuff is kind of valid, but I think it's still fine? It's possible to dodge attacks from a faster opponent by predicting where they'll strike next, so it's not like the basis of the feat is unusable.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
The IR stuff is kind of valid, but I think it's still fine? It's possible to dodge attacks from a faster opponent by predicting where they'll strike next, so it's not like the basis of the feat is unusable.
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Eh, unless you've got fucky causality JoJo-style they'll just end up reacting to whatever you did instead.
 
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