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Skill Tier List #1: Video Games vs Comics

Armorchompy said:
Eh, unless you've got fucky causality JoJo-style they'll just end up reacting to whatever you did instead.
Click to expand...
I guess so, but I feel like that invalidates a lot of IR feats as legitimate skill feats. There's also the question of whether or not the faster character could even change what they're doing in time (for example, completing a sword swing and then starting another swing before the slower character can react to that).
 
Armorchompy said:
some of the top tiers here
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For the reasons listed here and because of the bullshit he does with skill. There is no way you can show me a street tier intercepting a blitz from a MFTL+ dude and redirecting him to another solar system.
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
Who's better between Cass and Shang-Chi, would you say?
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Shang clears everyone below Karate Kid. So does Iron Fist. Daredevil I consider to be the #3 in Marvel but he will have some difficulty against Cass.
 
Shang is becoming what classic Karate Kid was, completely bullshit in skill. He's that ************ who can pressure points technology and ******* Thing.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I guess so, but I feel like that invalidates a lot of IR feats as legitimate skill feats. There's also the question of whether or not the faster character could even change what they're doing in time (for example, completing a sword swing and then starting another swing before the slower character can react to that).
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If the gap isn't too big it's fine, if it's gigablitz-worthy... I mean it's a good feat but it's not one I'd take to the letter.
M3X_2.0 said:
Shang is becoming what classic Karate Kid was, completely bullshit in skill. He's that ***** who can pressure points technology and ***** Thing.
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he's got a way to go before he destroys a planet-sized energy construct and causes earthquakes with skill (peak human btw) still but i believe in him :)
 
Armorchompy said:
If the gap isn't too big it's fine, if it's gigablitz-worthy... I mean it's a good feat but it's not one I'd take to the letter.
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Alright, well if this disqualifies her then I'm perfectly fine with that because I wasn't looking forward to debating Touhou skill again anyways lmao
 
Richard Dragon could've been easily OF and Shang-Chi levels if the ************ made
Like any appearances
Also how does DD beat Captain America
 
Armorchompy said:
nonono, the other feats are still good :)
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is this my penance for procrastinating on d&d research

Anyways, like I said, she's currently winning against Sora here, and the thread has entered grace, so she should take the spot above wherever he lands. I think she might also have the edge over Sonic, as while Sonic is definitely the better martial artist of the two, they both seem similarly capable in picking up new abilities and fighting styles (Sonic arguably moreso), and Marisa has fought people with far more experience on top of having much better feats of precision and dodging skill and excellent feats of enhanced senses and stealth that'd give her complete awareness of the battlefield and how to use it to her advantage.

It doesn't seem like most VG characters are anywhere near as skilled, so I'll wait for some more arguments to crop up.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
More skilled really, Cap won't touch him if he want to not be. Cap also said DD's peak form is above anyone else.
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DD is more acrobatic and clearly just trying to escape, not even bothering to fight back, that's not really the same as not getting hit in a straight fight. Cap is immune to DD's pressure points and way stronger, zero shot he doesn't win that.
 
I'd definitely say Marisa's a good shot more skilled than Sonic, btw. Dunno about Sora, I feel like there's other factors in a VS Match such as as Marisa's standard attack being to fire a biggaton of projectiles per second, which is quite advantageous.
 
ShakeResounding said:
Outskilled alternate versions of Shadow (Lancelot), Blaze (Percival), and Knuckles (Gawain) that have dedicated their lives to swordsmanship as the Knights of the Round Table, being the greatest Knights in the world excluding King Arthur whose illusion Sonic also bested in combat (Black Knight).
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to add to this, sonic could do all of this after less than a day of training
 
Armorchompy said:
DD is more acrobatic and clearly just trying to escape
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He was not trying to escape, he was trying to not get hit by Cap, and he managed it. Cap isn't immune to DD's pressure point IIRC not even Crossbones is anymore. DD's taking down teams with Crossbones, Bullseye, Rhino, Bullet, etc etc.

Cap's the one who's not winning here.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
He was not trying to escape, he was trying to not get hit by Cap, and he managed it. Cap isn't immune to DD's pressure point IIRC not even Crossbones is anymore. DD's taking down teams with Crossbones, Bullseye, Rhino, Bullet, etc etc.
Click to expand...
That's the same thing, he's not fighting back and focusing completely on evasion and trying to talk to the guy, not like Cap's gonna go all out on a friend of his who's not even fighting back. Crossbones has indeed lost to DD (and literally every other street tier) but it wasn't really a pressure points thing.
 
It's not the same thing. Trying to escape from a fight is very different from not wanting to be hit, thus dodging it. Even if it's not a full on fight, Cap's not touching DD anyway, even with a anti radar weapon he can't hit DD with the shield. DD nowadays is fighting instinctively and this is something that adds to his previous mobility.

Cap himself has some issues with a degraded Daredevil and admits his degraded form is like top form for anybody else. DD doesn't need to hit pressure points, he can just hit the stress point. Even if Cap is stronger, there's no guarantee this strength will help him, considering DD has already fought enemies with comparable strength and to be honest, considering both ooc or willing to kill DD is definitely using hit kill attacks or simply striking Cap to make him lose his vision or feel like his body is on fire.

Really, there's nothing Cap can do that DD can't. DD's miles ahead of Cap in skill.
 
tbh I made that zero skill list and I still feel like it's incomplete somehow. I'll loom through it again and see what's needed there
 
Also Idk why we're arguing strength because there are Tier 2 characters here.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
For the hell of it, I've randomly selected a bunch of characters between different media to rank their combative skill in comparison to one another. Rules are simple: make your case for one of the characters listed below and their placements will be decided through further discussion and voting throughout the thread.


Marvel Reps​

DC9iwm7.png

DC Reps​

word-image-62093-1.png


Video Game Reps​

latest.png

Most skilled in each category​

  • Marvel: Shang-Chi
  • DC: Karate Kid
  • VG:

Overall Ranking






































Click to expand...
Raiden instead of Snake is CRAZY lmao
 
Not to push my luck too far, but looking at the other VG characters chosen, I think Marisa is the most skilled? While a lot of them do equal or surpass her in specific areas, I couldn't find anyone who can do so in multiple categories at once - Having an edge in combat experience won't help much against someone with better accuracy, dodging skill, senses, stealth, instinct, mimicry, adaptation, and general knowledge, I figure (or any other combination of those factors).

I'd like to wait for more elaboration from supporters of other verses ofc, but as of right now I think Marisa takes the #1 spot in video games fairly easily.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Not to push my luck too far, but looking at the other VG characters chosen, I think Marisa is the most skilled? While a lot of them do equal or surpass her in specific areas, I couldn't find anyone who can do so in multiple categories at once - Having an edge in combat experience won't help much against someone with better accuracy, dodging skill, senses, stealth, instinct, mimicry, adaptation, and general knowledge, I figure (or any other combination of those factors).

I'd like to wait for more elaboration from supporters of other verses ofc, but as of right now I think Marisa takes the #1 spot in video games fairly easily.
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I would argue Raiden surpasses her (in a vacuum, he can't really deal with flight + danmaku) but I don't really have the arguments on hand
 
Armorchompy said:
I would argue Raiden surpasses her (in a vacuum, he can't really deal with flight + danmaku) but I don't really have the arguments on hand
Click to expand...
I'll wait for some elaboration then, because his profile doesn't really paint the best picture of how skilled he is (especially since his intelligence section doesn't seem to mention anything from MGRR; I wouldn't be surprised if that has some wacky shit).
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I'll wait for some elaboration then, because his profile doesn't really paint the best picture of how skilled he is (especially since his intelligence section doesn't seem to mention anything from MGRR; I wouldn't be surprised if that has some wacky shit).
Click to expand...
Chariot? Whack her with the bible

 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
is this my penance for procrastinating on d&d research

Anyways, like I said, she's currently winning against Sora here, and the thread has entered grace, so she should take the spot above wherever he lands. I think she might also have the edge over Sonic, as while Sonic is definitely the better martial artist of the two, they both seem similarly capable in picking up new abilities and fighting styles (Sonic arguably moreso), and Marisa has fought people with far more experience on top of having much better feats of precision and dodging skill and excellent feats of enhanced senses and stealth that'd give her complete awareness of the battlefield and how to use it to her advantage.

It doesn't seem like most VG characters are anywhere near as skilled, so I'll wait for some more arguments to crop up.
Click to expand...
Sonic is also quite well known for dodging... like 99% of games involves him dodging stuff with his speed. You have Frontiers where he pulls a Tohou and dodges bullet hell from someone stronger than him (The End bossfight), you've got the opening to Unleashed where he 1v1000+ an entire army while also easily dodging artillery fire, etc.

Sonic also has pretty good precision. I mean, even Classic Sonic could snipe Eggman from kilometers away with a rock (And somehow made it curve up like crazy), Sonic improvises using a lance as a spear to take out Turrets, and is known for his homing attacks and quickly barraging small weak-points on bosses.

And I don't quite think enhanced senses by itself is skill. But Sonic himself has several different enhanced senses. He has two forms of precog (Quills raise and sneezing when he senses danger before it shows itself), enhanced senses (Has great hearing IIRC), and extrasensory perception (Not sure how it would appear for Sonic, but us the players in Frontiers get the ability to sense when a threat is nearby even when they're out of sight in the form of a white line between Sonic and the direction of the enemy) that gives him complete awareness of the layout similarly. I also think we can agree Sonic's acrobatics/athleticism is greater.

Not claiming Sonic is better in these fields, but they're all things Sonic is well-known for too. It would prolly be better once Sonic's skill is updated since I was planning a blog for the verse.
 
Bayonetta should be pretty high up when it comes to skill. She’s fought against, and defeated multiple Golems that instantly analyzes their opponent, and switches to a form that could defeat them. In that case, it cycled through multiple forms because not a single one was enough to defeat her.

She’s beaten enemies that can predict your patterns, and also observe muscle movement to make it almost impossible to touch them.

The angels in her verse have really good reactive evolution, and she’s been fighting against them for over hundreds of years, and they still have not been able to adapt to her.

Along with a bunch of other great feats of resisting adaptation, mimicry, etc etc.

When it comes to intelligence she’s shown that in the heat of battle she’s thinking critically, which is aided by her enhanced perception. She see things slower than normal, up to ridiculous amounts of speed and information.

her witch time allows her to gain access to all information within that moment, and sharpens all of her five senses. Uh, she has a wide variety of weapons that she has access to, she’s hundreds of years old (which helps with experience) and has fought in multiple wars with advancing technology.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
(especially since his intelligence section doesn't seem to mention anything from MGRR; I wouldn't be surprised if that has some wacky shit).
Click to expand...
The only thing MGR has is "anime skill" and supercomputers and AI that can analyze weakpoints and all that fun stuff being fodder.
And Raiden was able to go from being laughed at by Sam to killing him.

MGS is where the actual skill stuff (good combination of actual functional skill and supernatural shit), pre-MGR is notable in that the skill shit is actually written by people who know what the **** they're doing, Snake's mocap actor is a swat instructor even.
Raiden's skill comes notably from Pre-MGR (I like the part where he fights a simulation of a psychic teleporter who can see the future and actively reads the foe's mind to know every move they'll do before they do and thus is nigh-impossible to ever tag, as part of his really good army training) with MGR just throwing a few skillfucks to the chain.
First_Witch said:
Chariot? Whack her with the bible

Click to expand...

Effort. The plan is to just drop all that with the CRT in 5 years given I'm not really done compiling everything.
 
I'd say Richard Dragon is better than Cass. He doesn't have that many appearances, so the most he has is the "every martial art" and "the best martial artists" statements, but just based on the both of their track records against Shiva I'd say Richard is more skilled.
Plus he doesn't have actual metahuman strength like what Cass's was described to be so that makes it more impressive too
 
Chariot190 said:
Raiden's skill comes notably from Pre-MGR (I like the part where he fights a simulation of a psychic teleporter who can see the future and actively reads the foe's mind to know every move they'll do before they do and thus is nigh-impossible to ever tag, as part of his really good army training) with MGR just throwing a few skillfucks to the chain.
Click to expand...
Is that Psycho Mantis or am I thinking of a different guy

Touhou has something.... similar-ish to that, although not as impressive so I guess there'll be some debate after all (y)

LaserPrecision said:
Sonic is also quite well known for dodging... like 99% of games involves him dodging stuff with his speed. You have Frontiers where he pulls a Tohou and dodges bullet hell from someone stronger than him (The End bossfight), you've got the opening to Unleashed where he 1v1000+ an entire army while also easily dodging artillery fire, etc.
Click to expand...
While I don't feel like debating this in full rn, I do think it's important to note that sweeping a bunch of fodder isn't very impressive. Like, if Sonic wasn't beating the shit out of everyone here, it'd either be a hilarious outlier or those enemies wouldn't be considered fodder.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Sonic is also quite well known for dodging... like 99% of games involves him dodging stuff with his speed. You have Frontiers where he pulls a Tohou and dodges bullet hell from someone stronger than him (The End bossfight), you've got the opening to Unleashed where he 1v1000+ an entire army while also easily dodging artillery fire, etc.

Sonic also has pretty good precision. I mean, even Classic Sonic could snipe Eggman from kilometers away with a rock (And somehow made it curve up like crazy), Sonic improvises using a lance as a spear to take out Turrets, and is known for his homing attacks and quickly barraging small weak-points on bosses.

And I don't quite think enhanced senses by itself is skill. But Sonic himself has several different enhanced senses. He has two forms of precog (Quills raise and sneezing when he senses danger before it shows itself), enhanced senses (Has great hearing IIRC), and extrasensory perception (Not sure how it would appear for Sonic, but us the players in Frontiers get the ability to sense when a threat is nearby even when they're out of sight in the form of a white line between Sonic and the direction of the enemy) that gives him complete awareness of the layout similarly. I also think we can agree Sonic's acrobatics/athleticism is greater.

Not claiming Sonic is better in these fields, but they're all things Sonic is well-known for too. It would prolly be better once Sonic's skill is updated since I was planning a blog for the verse.
Click to expand...
I should add he also dodge the Egg Devil Ray and the Egg...well the the adabat boss fight Danmaku too.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Is that Psycho Mantis or am I thinking of a different guy

Touhou has something.... similar-ish to that, although not as impressive so I guess there'll be some debate after all (y)


While I don't feel like debating this in full rn, I do think it's important to note that sweeping a bunch of fodder isn't very impressive. Like, if Sonic wasn't beating the shit out of everyone here, it'd either be a hilarious outlier or those enemies wouldn't be considered fodder.
Click to expand...
They're not really that fodder. Their durability is fodder tho. But even common bad ins are stated to be capable of killing Sonic's friends, and other "fodder" Badniks are capable of injuring and causing harm to Sonic as stated by him in IDW. Their combat speed scales closely. Sonic's advantages over them is travel speed, and far superior acrobatics. Thus why he could run around them and easily evade every attack to sweep them all. But they posses the ap and combat speed to actually pose threats to Sonic in undesirable settings.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
Marvel in order:

1. Shang-Chi
2. Iron Fist
3. Daredevil/Elektra
4. Black Panther/Captain America
5. Taskmaster
6. Wolverine/Deadpool
7. Winter Soldier/Bullseye
9. Crossbones/Thor

Didn’t understand how Thor and Crossbones are on the list though.

DC in order:

1. Karate Kid
2. Cassandra
3. Shiva/Richard Dragon
4. Batman/Nightwing
5. Azrael
6. Bane
7. Deathstroke
8. Black Canary
9. Robin

I won’t rank the other two because I don’t know about them. I also ranked both Marvel and DC using feats, fights, statements and martial arts background. So I don’t care if someone in #2 lost to the #5 because that’s one fight and does not represent the character as a whole, as Iron Fist is consistently the Marvel’s #2 but Marvel uses him to hype someone else.
Click to expand...


Fairly good list but tbh I'd probably have task below wolverine in skill

For DC I think i agree completely tho on how you did it
 
Scathan_The_Celestial said:
I'd probably have task below wolverine in skill
Click to expand...
Was a hard decision because current Task is so ass, no writer respects this dude, recently Cap's sidekick just destroyed him. Logan isn't portrayed as a martial artist by many authors but he has a lot of good feats.
 
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