Skill Tier List #1: Video Games vs Comics

[M3X_2.0]

Spider-Man wouldn’t make a top 20 bruh

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Be for real, the dude has trained with Shang-Chi, and Cap. To say he’s not breaking top ten, let alone top twenty, is blasphemous.

 

[M3X_2.0]

The Way Of The Spider was a one time thing where he abused of his superhuman stats to fight. Then he came back to his regular status quo when he got Spider-Sense back again.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

The Way Of The Spider was a one time thing where he abused of his superhuman stats to fight. Then he came back to his regular status quo when he got Spider-Sense back again.

Abused his superhuman stats? The whole point of him learning the art was so he could reach his true potential. The Spider-Sense was quite literally a crutch in Shang’s eyes.

 

[Phoenks]

That’s for part 2 dw

(Garou is obviously going to win)

Even if I gave my biggest Garou skill wank of all time he'd get no diffed by Kenshiro and Mori Jin so rip.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Abused his superhuman stats? The whole point of him learning the art was so he could reach his true potential. The Spider-Sense was quite literally a crutch in Shang’s eyes.

Yeah, the point of this style is to use his acrobatic mobility to counter Spider-Sense from different Spider-People. I don’t think that’s something worth to make him a top 20 fighter (I was exaggerating btw)

 

[M3X_2.0]

Also Garou gets diffed by the top 10 of Marvel and DC. He wishes he was 10% as skilled as Batman.

 

[Phoenks]

Also Garou gets diffed by the top 10 of Marvel and DC. He wishes he was 10% as skilled as Batman.

Back up your claims when?

As far as I know Batman is getting his entire life copied in a few minutes lol.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yeah, the point of this style is to use his acrobatic mobility to counter Spider-Sense from different Spider-People. I don’t think that’s something worth to make him a top 20 fighter (I was exaggerating btw)

His acrobatic mobility, alongside newly added Kung-Fu. Even in Civil War, he’s preluded something akin to that, fighting Captain America like a “spider” instead of a man.

 

[M3X_2.0]

His acrobatic mobility, alongside newly added Kung-Fu. Even in Civil War, he’s preluded something akin to that, fighting Captain America like a “spider” instead of a man.

Iirc Cap diffed him with pure skill when he was using the Iron Spider, tho that fight is bullshit and Spidey should one shit him.

Back up your claims when?

When the thread gets made lmao.

As far as I know Batman is getting his entire life copied in a few minutes lol.

I forgot how many times Batman has fought someone with this capability and still whooped their ass

 

[Phoenks]

Smhmh all this massive hype about Batman everywhere yet I haven't seen a single comprehensive skill essay about him !!!

I am a Batman believer but right now dude is on fraud status for the sheer lack of sources

 

[M3X_2.0]

Believe me brother, I’m trying. I’ve read basically 20k appearances from him and I’m revising his profile and the profiles from his niche like Batfamily and villains.

It takes time because comics sucks.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Iirc Cap diffed him with pure skill when he was using the Iron Spider, tho that fight is bullshit and Spidey should one shit him.

The fight went his way until Spider-Man fought like a spider, then it concluded in a draw due to interference.

 

[BlastX]

I suppose I'll start the video game cast and rep the character I'm most knowledgeable in. Sonic.

• Able to mimic abilities after seeing the technique used once, such as Chaos Control, and did so even when the Emerald he had was a fake with weaker energy. This extends to his own refined techniques, as displayed by Classic Sonic being able to quickly master the Homing Attack and Boost.
• Has a specific fighting style complimented by both his high speed and ability to curl into a ball, tailored towards utilizing momentum from both his attacks and techniques. But on top of this, Sonic shows knowledge in other styles; several of his moves and attacks mimic Capoeria (Advance series), boxing, was deemed the successor to the secret Linshao Kung Fu , and can defeat Espio in battle despite his training in Ninjutsu (Sonic Generations).
• Refers to Knuckles' moves as easy to read when teaching Emerl how to fight, despite Knuckles being verbatim referred to as a master martial artist.
• Evaded attacks and minorly assaulted Dark Gaia in his Base, an eldritch being of Darkness who has been fighting Light Gaia every few tens of millions of years since the beginning of time in a constant cycle of Light and Dark, and outfought it completely alongside Light Gaia as Super Sonic (Unleashed).
• Easily thrashed the Egg Dragoon, a machine with years of research on his movement, while in a transformation that stripped him of that trademark speed and many of those related techniques. He later did so again, this time as his usual self. Even his Classic self, who is years less experienced than Modern Sonic, is able to do this.
• Outskilled alternate versions of Shadow (Lancelot), Blaze (Percival), and Knuckles (Gawain) that have dedicated their lives to swordsmanship as the Knights of the Round Table, being the greatest Knights in the world excluding King Arthur whose illusion Sonic also bested in combat (Black Knight). This was after less than a day of training in swordsmanship.
• Combined with the above, he quickly mimicked and mastered not one but three different styles of swordsmanship. Knight Style for balance of power and speed (used by Lancelot), Paladin style for power (used by Galahad), and Cavalier style for speed (used by Percival) after fighting the Knights who used them.
• Consistently fodderizes Metal Sonic, a robot designed to match him in all regards which is constantly repaired and upgraded. It's a joke at this point tbh.
• Thrashed Ultimate Emerl in under 30 seconds when nobody else was capable of doing so, to Shadow's admittance, and who had all of Sonic's own techniques alongside all the techniques of his friends on top of 4000 years worth of combat experience. This not only includes their moves and abilities granted from Sonic's friends, but things down to their specific ways of running and their stances when remaining idle during combat (Sonic Battle).
• Referred to by Dr. Starline
  as the only person who can stand up to Dr. Eggman through sheer skill alone.
• As Frontiers shows, Sonic can even hack Eggman's technology.
• Bested Master Zik, the oldest member of the Deadly Six, who is over 1000 years old and has trained the other Zeti. Oh, and he also basically stomped each member of the Deadly Six twice (Lost World).
• Has triumphed over Eggman over 227,000 times despite his intellect, legion of mechas and robots, constant preparation, and downright reality warping-level of technology.

Edit: I've put in some links here while I've had the time.

Should also add that he got used to his Werehog form super quickly, a form which doesn't have his trademark speed and fights completely different to how he usually fights.

 

[Chariot190]

Smhmh all this massive hype about Batman everywhere yet I haven't seen a single comprehensive skill essay about him !!!

I am a Batman believer but right now dude is on fraud status for the sheer lack of sources

Compare Garou's backlog which you can read in like an hour, to Batman's like 80 years of shit (Given current Batman is effectively a composite of mainstream comic runs), that shit is NOT the same.

I forgot how many times Batman has fought someone with this capability and still whooped their ass

I was reading something in the 2000s the other day and this literally happened.
Batman has fought himself and made whole new martial arts just to get an edge at least twice.

 

[First_Witch]

I for one can't wait for the bloodbath that is the second list when you unleash the weebs

 

[Armorchompy]

Batman can precog whole ass fights with a look, Garou had to get his shit pushed in by Saitama for five minutes to figure out that he had RPL, I know who my money's on

 

[TheGatememer]

Batman can precog whole ass fights with a look, Garou had to get his shit pushed in by Saitama for five minutes to figure out that he had RPL, I know who my money's on

Still gets skillfucked by some goon from RWBY

 

[Comicgyal]

I’ll just reply to this with things Bayonetta shares in common.

Here's a TL;DR:

-Decades of combat experience against a wide variety of foes with nearly every ability we have on the site. Noted to be a veteran who learned the smell of blood from her experience on the battlefield alone, and a world without conflict is like hell to her.

Bayonetta herself has centures of fighting experience, against a vast array of angels, demons, humans, gods, etc. all of which have extremely different skill sets and abilities. She began training as a child, this process is incredibly dangerous, and often results in mass deaths.

-Image trains against herself dozens of times in a row, and wins every single time.

Bayonetta has fought against her multiversal counterparts, all of whom have similar combat experiences, and beats them all. Even after they get amped by the main villain.

-Can dodge rain, and consider it easy.

Bayonetta hasn’t dodged rain, but she’s grabbed the water molecules from the rain, and formed it into an icicle spear on the fly.

-Analyze and remember hundreds of danmaku patterns and their traits and ease of copying, even for attacks she's only seen a single time.

-Copy other people's techniques after facing them once.

-Dodge danmaku that appears out of thin air, even when her sense of direction is distorted or her senses are removed.

Bayonetta doesn’t have much danmaku in verse (there is some) but she dodged punches that spawned out of thin air, inside of a very small airplane.

-Has combat senses that let her fight in the darkness, or detect an opponent's power level, spatial distortions, see through illusions, or even detect specific objects from kilometers away. She can even detect or analyze the attack patterns of beings described as "unreadable" and naturally unable to be adapted to.

Bayonetta has fought against enemies whose trait is adaptation and analyzing, yet they are unable to do so. Her magic lets her see illusions and spatial distortions as well, and she can fight against hundreds of new angels that are spawned at random. All stronger than the last. Shes even expressed boredom when fighting them, and allows herself to get sealed in barriers just for the chance to do battle. Which, she is not seriously exerting herself in.

-Completely mastered the use of fire magic despite her water affinity, which would ordinarily nullify her powers.

As a child she learned, and mastered the five elements only seconds after obtaining their elemental cores.

-Can defeat people with opposite elemental affinities to her own, including those who canonically abuse such elemental affinities as a combat tactic, despite the difference logically negating Marisa's powers and essentially deciding the outcome of entire battles before they begin.

Bayonetta has fought in wars against lumen sages, whose powers are made to counteract a witches dark arts. She’s regularly unaffected by their power nullifying seals and purifying attacks, despite channeling dark magic.

(Kinda too lazy to keep replying to the posts, so I’ll just list more of her abilities and showcasing.)

• Can transform into animals that can increase her combat abilities and other attributes. These transformations are based on the genetic code that’s found in human biology, which is insane that she can access that.

• Can fuse with her demons on the most fundamental level and use their powers perfectly.

• Can fight against the invisible Hummonculi, and can tag Iridescent who phases through dimensions to make itself intangible.

• Can kick her legs fast enough to the point where they set on fire.

• Can create air slashes / energy beams with her sword

• Is able to fight Aesir who has multiversal precog, and is described as a unique existence that makes her naturally immune to many supernatural attacks

• Is comparable to her mother, who can stack bullets on top of each other in midair while fighting

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I feel like a lot of this stuff might be too reliant on hax to count (like resisting power null, when Marisa explicitly is affected by elemental affinities; she just overcomes them regardless). The rain thing is also reliant on Witch Time, unless I misremembered what the original post claimed. Also, mentioning Aesir's precog and then going "actually Bayonetta is just immune lol" really hurts your argument.

Actually, it seems like most things - for example, kicking so hard her legs burst into flame or shooting energy from her sword - have less to do with skill and more to do with hax or raw AP. The longer I look at the list, the worse the problem gets.

 

[Shmooply]

Smhmh all this massive hype about Batman everywhere yet I haven't seen a single comprehensive skill essay about him !!!

I am a Batman believer but right now dude is on fraud status for the sheer lack of sources

Naw don't throw bro in the same camp as Sukuna.

 

[Comicgyal]

Overcoming elemental affinities too is a resistance. The seals of power null do hurt her feet, but she’s still able to bypass them. The rain thing is reliant on Witch time, but it’s moreso about her critical thinking in that moment rather than witch time itself. Also the thing I mentioned about her existence, doesn’t apply to Aesirs precog.

I’d say kicking that hard is skill based, because it has to do with how fast she’s able to move her legs in combat, which is of course a skill.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm definitely not putting together a respect thread for Batman, fu-ck that, however there is an excellent respect thread on Reddit. The "Skill" section is obviously what's of interest here. I'd like to point to this feat as a highlight, though.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Overcoming elemental affinities too is a resistance.

...No it isn't, what. The entire point of that scene is to explain one of many reasons why Marisa regularly loses to Reimu, that being the difference in their elemental affinities; As Marisa is water and Reimu is wood, Reimu would have a natural advantage as water raises wood.

The point is that Marisa can overcome these weaknesses via sheer skill, as she's superior to magic users like Patchouli who have mastered the use of all elements and actively analyzes her opponent to determine which element would work best against them; She even says to use earth (which absorbs water) against Marisa because of this.

The seals of power null do hurt her feet, but she’s still able to bypass them.

I'd like to see some more context on this if you have it. In any case, you'd have to prove that it isn't just resistance since you've claimed that Bayonetta is immune to a bunch of different supernatural powers.

The rain thing is reliant on Witch time, but it’s moreso about her critical thinking in that moment rather than witch time itself.

The critical thinking thing is lessened by her slowing time. The more time slows, the more time you have to think and execute a plan. If she can't do it without the aid of a specific spernatural hax, then it isn't worth mentioning as skill imo.

Also the thing I mentioned about her existence, doesn’t apply to Aesirs precog.

Okay, so then why is that even there?? It has nothing to do with skill. Aesir having multiversal precog also seems unsupported by his profile.
also ngl i could just bring up marisa beating satori and miko lol

I’d say kicking that hard is skill based, because it has to do with how fast she’s able to move her legs in combat, which is of course a skill.

...No, what? Moving fast isn't a skill; Otherwise, you'd see nothing but infinite/immeasurable characters here. Moving so fast that you light on fire is just a common feat, and something that also appears in Touhou if you're really curious.

So I stand by my original stance of Bayonetta's "skill" list being mostly hax.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Alternatively I could just set up a F&G thread for Marisa vs Bayonetta if we're using VS threads to determine the placement.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

The Way Of The Spider was a one time thing where he abused of his superhuman stats to fight. Then he came back to his regular status quo when he got Spider-Sense back again.

Wait a second, didn't the WOTS straight up replaced his SS against a physically comparable opponent?
Please debunk it I'm still salty to losing an ES Batman vs Spider-Man debate thanks to the Way of the Spider

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I'm definitely not putting together a respect thread for Batman, fu-ck that, however there is an excellent respect thread on Reddit. The "Skill" section is obviously what's of interest here. I'd like to point to this feat as a highlight, though.

could you explain to me what the **** happened here

 

[Shmooply]

could you explain to me what the ***** happened here

Martial arts guy went "nah **** this he somehow knows every single one of my moves and keeps predicting them before the fight even starts imma go kill myself instead"

 

[Armorchompy]

could you explain to me what the ***** happened here

the two precog'd every possible way that their fight could go, precog'd each other's precog, essentially having a mental duel, and despite the other guy being really skilled himself he concluded that he literally could never beat batman and decided to go commit LTG instead

it's... maybe a bit of a high end compared to batman's usual showings but it is really funny and that's what counts

 

[Armorchompy]

nice pfp btw shmoop

 

[Shmooply]

nice pfp btw shmoop

i should replay the game with maxed stats and rework harry's profile t b h

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Oh... Dante is here...

 

[Epiccheev]

the two precog'd every possible way that their fight could go, precog'd each other's precog, essentially having a mental duel, and despite the other guy being really skilled himself he concluded that he literally could never beat batman and decided to go commit LTG instead

it's... maybe a bit of a high end compared to batman's usual showings but it is really funny and that's what counts

That's anime

 

[Bobsican]

Oh... Dante is here...

Please don't dare to use stuff like dodging a void while already being in it.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

It supposedly ain't so different from dodgin rain

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Please don't dare to use stuff like dodging a void while already being in it.

Are ya afraid?

After all this one doesn't have rules like the other one which means I can pull any and all skill feats as bs as they can be

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Are ya afraid?

After all this one doesn't have rules like the other one which means I can pull any and all skill feats as bs as they can be

I mean, Armor did stop me from using some of Marisa's more busted shit earlier, so afaik this IS using the other thread's ruleset.

Also, void dodging isn't comparable to rain dodging at all; There's still space between raindrops, while a void is... a void. It's like dodging water while being underwater.
i should probably dig for stuff like that in touhou though

 

[Phoenks]

the two precog'd every possible way that their fight could go, precog'd each other's precog, essentially having a mental duel, and despite the other guy being really skilled himself he concluded that he literally could never beat batman and decided to go commit LTG instead

it's... maybe a bit of a high end compared to batman's usual showings but it is really funny and that's what counts

That's pretty damn wild.

You reminded me though, how exactly do you rate Batman and other comic characters?

Are you just taking all their best showings while ignoring the more average and subpar ones?

 

[M3X_2.0]

That's pretty damn wild.

You reminded me though, how exactly do you rate Batman and other comic characters?

Are you just taking all their best showings while ignoring the more average and subpar ones?

You didn't ask me but I'll answer anyway. Batman isn't the #1 from DC, Cass, Shiva and Richard Dragon are objectively better than him, and Karate Kid outskills all 4 due to bullshit feats. Compared to Marvel, he doesn't make the top 3 (imo), and this isn't because Batman is bad, it's because the Marvel top 3 is cracked.

As for the feats, that one he showed is like the peak of Batman's precog, but precog is just an area for skill. I'll only write a bible for Batman when we actually try to rank all of the characters.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

And also that the Sonic Supports outnumber us