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Silver Samurai - Shelved till the other CRTs get resolved

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Again, please answer my question regarding if he fought Spider-Man 3 times during his single multi-issue introduction story by Chris Claremont, who always tended to write Spider-Man as a weak pushover early in his career, and regarding if Spider-Woman was really portrayed as formidable in terms of power level during the time of her own confrontation with the Samurai.

We have strict standards regarding consistency for Marvel Comics for very good reasons, as the characters go up and down in power levels and in relation to each other like yo-yos, to the degree that it is perfectly possible to chain-scale Aunt May to the Living Tribunal or Oblivion, so two stories are not nearly enough consistency to go by for something like this. It is far more reliable to scale from the enemies that the Samurai fights most frequently, meaning Wolverine.
 
Antvasima said:
Again, please answer my question regarding if he fought Spider-Man 3 times during his single multi-issue introduction story by Chris Claremont, who always tended to write Spider-Man as a weak pushover early in his career, and regarding if Spider-Woman was really portrayed as formidable in terms of power level during the time of her own confrontation with the Samurai.
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It wasn't his introduction, his first ever fight is Daredevil and as I keep explaining again and again him being "comparable" to Wolverine is due to being heavily countered by him
Sorta hard to beat someone who can heal from any damage you can do to them and has a skeleton you can't cut

Also I really doubt that someone who appeared in issue 57, 74, 84 is meant to be introduced unless this's some amazing marketing ploy I don't know of
Also as I've shown with Spider-Woman she needed to hit in places like the chin to really hurt him and took him out by strangling as opposed to punching him out
 
Look, all that I am saying is that it is heavily against our rules/standard conventions regarding Marvel Comics to scale the way that you want to do here.

If we followed your logic, we would scale The Rhino and Sandman from The Hulk (or at least The Thing) instead of Spider-Man.

As such, I would greatly appreciate if you drop this issue and try to consistently follow our rules in this regard.
 
No it wouldn't, Rhino and Sandman have tons of fights vs Spider-Man as opposed to Hulk where in Silver Samurai has like 4 notable fights vs Wolverine 2 of which he won and the other 2 he lost due to Wolverine countering him so hard
 
The Silver Samurai is established as a recurring Wolverine antagonist, whereas I think that he only fought Spider-Man in his introduction story in the late 1970s or early 1980s, by an author who consistently used to write Spider-Man as an ineffectual beta male, so yes, you are applying the same standard.
 
Yes, I think so too. It would risk to screw up our scaling chains otherwise.
 
Antvasima said:
The Silver Samurai is established as a recurring Wolverine antagonist, whereas I think that he only fought Spider-Man in his introduction story in the late 1970s or early 1980s, by an author who consistently used to write Spider-Man as an ineffectual beta male, so yes, you are applying the same standard.
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His introduction is in Daredevil Volume 1 Issue 111 in 1974, he then from 1977 to 1979 has fought Spider-man on 3 separate occasions in Marvel Team-Up
From there in 1982 he has appeared twice in Spider-Woman

I should mention that between 1998 to 2002 he has only one notable interaction with Wolverine and afterwards he was mainly dealing with Wolverine stuff, heck if we really wanna start going over portrays Silver Samurai has been beaten by both Elektra and Kitty Pryde so why aren't we arguing 9-A?
When a dude has less then 100 issues where he appears and a decent bulk of his most notable fights are with Spider-Man or vs someone he has no way to beat i.e Wolverine I again fail to see how the scaling to Spider-Man is a problem
 
Okay. That is different then. I thought that he only fought Spider-Man in a single story.

Regardless, he has been portrayed as a Wolverine antagonist since the mid-80s, and he has no official physical enhancements, so I think that it is much safer to use our usual standards for situations like this.
 
Again the whole argument of "no official physical enhancements" would knock him to 9-A since people like Wolverine do have those, and he has feats in that bulk park mind you
So unless you're in favour of doing that I don't think you should be going down that road, plus it's not like he's a regular human but a Mutant so he could always just have low key super strength and durability for all we know
 
Well, I do not have the impression that he is physically significantly stronger than Wolverine, and again, Spider-Man used to be be portrayed as much weaker than during the modern era in the 1970s, especially by people like Chris Claremont.
 
Okay explain why it was a pure fist fight Silver Samurai won then, because if they were equal as you claim you'd think the guy who has a skeleton the other can do jack to alongside regeneration would win that ordeal
And all his other fights outside the one where Wolverine was possessed by Muramsa sword which would show he's inferior (So again 9-A is more likely then 8-C so be my guest on that one) have ended by Silver Samurai stabbing through the none skeleton part of Wolverine easily and then getting his hand chopped by claws or other stuff that wouldn't even correlate to being physically equal
 
Stabbing damage doesn't count for either of them, and from what I saw of their fist fight, their blows seemed similarly powerful, or at least not extremely uneven in this regard.

Also, Wolverine is handled in a very weird manner. Sometimes he is in bar fights with regular well-trained humans, and takes damage from them, and sometimes he withstands blows from the Hulk without his flesh instantly vaporising and splattering over the entire solar system.
 
For the physical enhancements, I don't think that's a solid thing to argue for. MVP trained to Captain America's physical level just by working out and eating well. While he's not the best example per say due to how much he focused on training, it shows that humans in the universe can become stronger than expected with the right about of effort. A person with a grand total of like 89 appearances scaling to Wolverine or Spider-Man isn't that wild due to his far more limited scope of appearances. Him being High 8-C isn't that wild either, considering Wolverine's regeneration and invincible skeleton are extremely difficult to get around, with Hulk-level dudes failing to consistently KO instantly because of it.

EDIT: Looking over everything he's shown to be able to harm or threaten Spider-Woman, Spider-Man, and Wolverine with physical attacks though I'd still say he's worse than they are. Like in the Spider-Man example he's still put down without extreme effort from Peter. Dunno about total High 8-C or something, but him being 8-C at least isn't that wild.
 
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Thank you for the input. I also think that an 8-C rating seems safe to apply.
 
Eh at best what Qaw presented is proof for 8-C durability since I’m the same fight Spider-Man nearly was knocked out by a hit from Silver Samurai so
But there’re other High 8-C feats durability feats listed on his page rn

Also the way Spider-Man beat him was what, blinding him and then punching in the head directly?
A punch to the head can take out people stronger then you usually from what I understand
 
His Wolverine feats aren't really disproving High 8-C since it's Wolverine like Qaw said
It's not like he ever has "oh shit I can't harm this High 8-C" or trouble with harming a 8-C
 
But his scaling to X-Men doesn't even contradict his Spider-Man one outside some feats that wouldn't even be 8-C (Like nearly being knocked out by Kitty) so like
 
I'm not saying that Spiderman scaling contradicts X-Men scaling. I'm just saying the reasoning for whatever rating he gets shouldn't solely rely on a few issues from the 70s. What was 70s Spiderman's tier at the time anyways?
 
I also think that it is much safer to scale the current SS from Wolverine, and am not going to budge regarding this point, given that it would result in recurrent demand to upgrade Wolverine, and everybody on his level, to High 8-C otherwise.

I would appreciate if we could stop arguing in circles, apply what I and others have accepted, and close this thread.

Also, SS is "possibly 4-B" with his tachyon-enhanced sword.
 
Antvasima said:
given that it would result in recurrent demand to upgrade Wolverine, and everybody on his level, to High 8-C otherwise.
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Again, just deny the upgrade to Wolverine and/or put a note on one or both of the profiles. It’s not like people asking for it means that you have to do it.

I don’t really have an opinion on the tier, but this just isn’t a reason to not apply a revision.
 
Antvasima said:
I also think that it is much safer to scale the current SS from Wolverine, and am not going to budge regarding this point, given that it would result in recurrent demand to upgrade Wolverine, and everybody on his level, to High 8-C otherwise.

I would appreciate if we could stop arguing in circles, apply what I and others have accepted, and close this thread.

Also, SS is "possibly 4-B" with his tachyon-enhanced sword.
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What LordTracer said, also what you mean exactly in "current" ?
Current Silver Samurai is the son of the one I'm trying to upgrade and he doesn't have a page

Also no he'd not be possibly 4-B as we went over that and agreed that since he doesn't have feats anywhere near that then High 8-C is better
Also no one even outright rejected High 8-C outside you by now and several people have agreed with me or like Qaw said it's possible but they're unsure
 
It is not acceptable to make an exception to our scaling standard rules.

The Silver Samurai has been portrayed as a Wolverine antagonist since the middle 1980s, and as such should be scaled in relation to him, period.

My apologies, but I am still not budging regarding this, and your relentless unreasonable persistence to go against our rules is turning very tiresome to deal with.
 
Listen, guys. Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.

@Tllmbrg Do we have enough supporting evidence from the later Silver Samurai scaling appearances in addition to the Spiderman one to support the High 8-C rating?

Also, the Tachyon Field's effect on his sword should be similar to a star wars vibroblade, increasing penetration/cutting potential. We can say higher and at most 4-B if you want.
 
Depends what would you say Bymax (Marvel) is tier wise?
Also as I've explained Wolverine is simply someone Silver Samurai can't beat due to not being able to cut him and Wolverine being able to regenerate from anything he'd throw, not to mention they're not even consistent with how he's vs Wolverine

One fight has him beat him in a fist fight, another one has him get stalemated by a Wolverine not using claws while Samurai is using his sword and another one has Samurai not be effected by a blunt hit and then stabbing Wolverine which then leads Wolverine to chop his arm with his claws
So considering they're not even consistent with how he scales to Wolverine I fail to see why that's our main scaling method, heck later Wolverine states he's way more skilled then Samurai so

Also it's similar to the Star Wars vibroblades how?
There's no statement to my knowledge that gives it any type of durability negation like those do
 
Well, the scaling to Spider-Man is very outdated in any case.
 
So what is Spider-Man magically 8-C in the late 70s?
If so of what feats?
 
He did not have any feats of his own beyond 9-A back then as far as I recall. It was first with catching a falling skyscraper in the 2000s that he reached that high as far as I am aware, at least in terms of raw power displays.

We cannot expect a company with hundreds of writers and over 60 years old characters to be entirely consistent.

The Silver Samurai has been a Wolverine antagonist for over 35 years and should be scaled from that.
 
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Does he magically has any power boost after that time?
Also as I've shown they aren't even consistent with how he scales to Wolverine, so do we really wanna do that?
As I've said 8-C, High 8-C with Tachyon field can also work
 
He has received some power boosts in occasional storylines actually, but he and other Marvel characters have mainly been written inconsistently to a ridiculously extreme degree, and largely gradually increased the scale of their feats.

I am thinking 8-C in terms of physical power, and likely 4-B with his tachyon field katana.
 
But 4-B is purely of statements of being able to cut anything outside adamantium, I fail to see how thus's any more reliable then just scaling to Spider-Man
 
Well, I think that it has been stated by official sources as well that he can cut anything except pure adamanm, which would include 4-B characters, but sure, "8-C physically, far higher with his tachyon-enhanced katana" is probably fine.
 
If you find my latest suggestion acceptable, sure. That would be appreciated.
 
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