• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Silver Samurai - Shelved till the other CRTs get resolved

Status
Not open for further replies.
Tllmbrg

Tllmbrg

VS Battles
Content Moderator
4,755
2,188
Okay so this's a simple CRT
Just adding a key and changing durability (possibly) alongside some resistances and powers

------------------------

Okay so for the Keys it'd be: 8-C, High 8-C with sword
For High 8-C feats with the sword we the multiple times he hurt Spider-Man - Marvel Team-Up Volume 1 Issue 57, 74, 84
Now for the durability change it's mainly due to the fact that while yes wearing armour does increase durability it doesn't prevent blunt force from effecting you, point and case maces are often used in medieval warfare to screw over armour
So considering Silver Samurai doesn't get bruised by those attacks he should scale albeit lower
Now the main counter examples for this would likely be this and this - Uncanny X-Men 1 Issues 172 and Spider-Woman Volume 1 Issue 43
For Spider-Woman I'll simply say that she mainly hit him in the chin and choked him out which mean that in the fight she wasn't overpowering him
As for the Wolverine scan how is getting your arm broken by a 8-C proof for the rating?
Might as well downgrade his durability without armour to lower then 8-C if that's the route we going

Now resistances and powers:
Heat Manipulation (Shown here) - Wolverine Volume 2 Annual 1996
Acrobatics (Shown here) - Wolverine Volume 3 Issues 36-37
Resistance to possession (Shown here) - New Mutants Volume 1 Issue 5
Resistance to electricity manipulation (Shown here) - Spider-Woman Volume 1 Issue 42
 
Last edited:
Oh wait, actually; I think it was recalled his sword can negate durability via splitting on an atomic level. So, probably just durability negation with his sword.
 
But like, he didn't even cut Spider-Man in those scans
How you durability negate via cutting on an atomic level without even cutting?
 
Yah no, unless I missed something major he only ever shanked Wolverine in none Adamantium protected areas
 
I don't recall durability negation for that reason but I think he did cut an astral entity before in Sunfire/Big Hero Six. That's more NPI though.
 
Oh yeah, I misread. What was actually described was something about his sword making use of Tachyons.
 
So yah unless someone can find a statement of the durability negation and show it's consistent to boot I think that power should be scrapped from his page
 
Actually, I looked at his profile. He already has durability negation and Tachyon Field, which is what who uses in his sword strikes is already listed there as well. I can't really find a good scan on google mentioning the Tachyon field; the best one I can find is a statement on cutting through solid steel like butter.
 
Yah but he has nothing on the page that explains why and I couldn't really find anything myself after going through all his issues
Plus again, he hasn't cut through Spider-Man so I don't see why that durability neg would apply
Not to mention if he could then why hasn't he ever cut through Wolverine's skeleton?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Actually, I looked at his profile. He already has durability negation and Tachyon Field, which is what who uses in his sword strikes is already listed there as well. I can't really find a good scan on google mentioning the Tachyon field; the best one I can find is a statement on cutting through solid steel like butter.
Click to expand...
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/U5lxm3yOF...tQ9v-nasE6U5nFMABRn1WPn6me5ES_qba--y_Mf=s1600
-Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #10, The Silver Samurai
"The Silver Samurai is a mutant who can generate a form of energy, probably a tachyon field"
"He can use the sword, so energized, to slice through any known substance except adamantium"
 
That doesn't really proof any durability negation, the part afterwards where it compares it to a disintegration beam is more helpful.
But again this does lead to the question of why Spider-Man wasn't cut when getting hit by it, several times while we're at it (all 3 scans are from separate fights)
Plus from what I understand characters like Mojo have powers in guides that are never shown on the pages which seems to be the case here, at least in the sense of durability negation
 
I dont think Silver Samurai actually manage to hit him directly during any of the fights.
The 1st scan looks like he he dodged it, hence Silver Samurai's dialogue and how Peter has already sensed him coming in the previous page (The entire fight is Spidey and Black Widow dodging, they werent hit except when Black Widow was hit by the shockwave from the blade)

The Second Scan looks more like a direct hit but there's no energy around his blade so his powers is probably not working
'
The 3rd is merely a glancing blow from the flat of the blade.

Plus if his energized blade can only knock Spidey around I think it wouldnt make sense that he's so worried about it and keeps commenting on how it can melt steel or something

The powers are shown on page though. The only question is if its consistent enough.
It could just be energy manip too, albeit a higher tiered one (High 8-C as you said)

I'm fine either way
 
I'd say we'd probably still need more input. But Sandman makes sense to me.
 
Sandman31 said:
I dont think Silver Samurai actually manage to hit him directly during any of the fights.
The 1st scan looks like he he dodged it, hence Silver Samurai's dialogue and how Peter has already sensed him coming in the previous page (The entire fight is Spidey and Black Widow dodging, they werent hit except when Black Widow was hit by the shockwave from the blade)

The Second Scan looks more like a direct hit but there's no energy around his blade so his powers is probably not working
'
The 3rd is merely a glancing blow from the flat of the blade.

Plus if his energized blade can only knock Spidey around I think it wouldnt make sense that he's so worried about it and keeps commenting on how it can melt steel or something

The powers are shown on page though. The only question is if its consistent enough.
It could just be energy manip too, albeit a higher tiered one (High 8-C as you said)

I'm fine either way
Click to expand...
Actually I just noticed but he seems to have thrown him really hard after Spider-Man dodged him, see how he says that he feels every bone got pulverised and he's clearly dazed so if anything that feat ends as more impressive
For second, ehhhh idk
For third why'd he hit him with the flat end and wouldn't that further support High 8-C with just physicals since he still hurt him not to mention the narration says he'd flung semi-consuice and he hasn't really taken any hit prior to that so

And yes Spider-Man does comment on that but that doesn't really show durability negation, just that Silver Samurai can cut through stuff really well
I'd rather there be an in universe statement about the durability negation y'know?
Purely of the comics it seems more like a stat amp
 
Again, doesn't proof durability negation
I think it should be scrapped all together by this point, plus I think it's fair to assume that being able to cut everything outside adamantium is somewhat of a hyperbole since ends at way higher then any of his feats
And either way it seems like the AP feats end as High 8-C with or without the energy, so maybe you could even argue High 8-C in general considering in his fights with Wolverine it's not like he ever has a problem of cutting the none skeleton parts
 
I'm not really that invested into this. Just playing devil's advocate because I find both to be plausible. I dont think about his sword cutting everything except adamantium is hyperbole, if its a one off thing then sure, but its really consistent and has been stated in multiple occasions across the years (Theres more than what I posted here). Not saying that its true as its possible false due to contradiction

But then again as you said it seems too high so im also fine with High 8-C and just label his powers as energy manip.
 
Maybe High 8-C physically, higher with Energy Manipulation?
Because he does seem to showcase High 8-C feats even without the energy manipulation

Tho if not I'll concede to High 8-C with Energy Manipulation
 
Have we defined what his tachyon energy field does?

Does it make the sword sharper or does it weaken the target's atomic/molecular bonds?
 
Short answer on what Tachyons are, they're basically quantum particles that travel faster than light and likely cause space-time distortions.
 
Sure that’s what they do in theory, but like it seems all the Spider-Man feats wouldn’t even be effected even if Silver Samurai has durability negation
And are we now to give Wolverine’s skeleton resistance to durability negation since the sword can’t cut it?
 
There's no such thing as resistance to durability negation, but resistance to spatial manipulation would be a better wording.
 
So is specifying he has spatial manipulation on his page and giving Wolverine resistance to that alongside upgrading Silver Samurai to High 8-C in general okay?
He does seem to hurt Spider-Man without even cutting him it seems
Tho as Sandman said the third scan does seem like a more direct hit so you can argue spatial manipulation is inconsistent
 
Given that the Silver Samurai's sword can officially cut through any substance except for adamantium, he does not have durability negation. We tend to treat Adamantium as a rather high degree of tier 4-B in durability.

Should we get rid of said durability negation, and write "At most 4-B with his sword" instead?
 
Let's wait to see what the others think first.
 
I still think "sword AP" is gross especially when it's magically jumping from tier 8 to tier 4 just because. The problem seems to be we don't have a specific mechanic for dura neg and cutting tier 4s is too consistent to ignore but putting his physicality there is insane.

Given that the Silver Samurai's sword can officially cut through any substance except for adamantium, he does not have durability negation.

Wouldn't this actually be evidence for durability negation? "Anything but adamantium" would imply substances more durable than adamantium are fair game, and naming that specific metal points more to some specific characteristics of adamantium making it uncuttable as opposed to just how well it can take force. You'd use different writing to imply the latter.

Anyways I'll be overall neutral on the sword because comics are wack. Not a fan of sword ap, but we don't seem to have a clear method to durability negation either.

Everything else seems fine.

Large Edit: So I was under the assumption that cutting 4-Bs or whatever had some degree of merit to it, since ant was entertaining the possibility and he'd know better than I did how often these sorts of things happen. I have been told to the contrary, however. From what I've been told, he doesn't have cutting feats that are significantly out of tier. As such, I wouldn't give anything off some random "can cut anything" statement. At best, stuff like that would only serve as support without sufficient elaboration. Feats have to be the backbone of our rankings, statements have to remain consistent with what we know, and right now, 4-B magic cutting power is not consistent with what we know. I disavow 4-B AP entirely at this point, as well as durability negation. At best a possibly far higher.
 
Last edited:
Okay, so "High 8-C, possibly far higher with his sword (It has been credibly stated that it can cut through any substance weaker than adamantium)"?
 
I'd probably write it something like this:

Building Level (feat/scaling), At least Large Building level with sword (Chopped spider man), possibly far higher (Has been stated to cut through anything weaker than adamantium, but lacks concrete feats at such a level)

And then of course source the scaling and statements.

The statement does make his sword more or less outlier proof in the future unless stuff really makes no sense, and could also back up dura neg if a method's found, but yeah I'd relegate it to that as of now.
 
That suggestion seems fine to apply to me.
 
Tho just saying in the first scan for him fighting Spider-Man after he hurled Spider-Man he was nearly blacking out
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Maverick_Zero_X
Random Fantastic Four Additions #1
Replies
7
Views
711
Excellence616
Excellence616
Roirr
  • Locked
Silver surfer upgrade (marvel Comics)
2 3 4
Replies
126
Views
5K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Arcker123
  • Locked
The Gorgon Chronicles (Marvel Comics)
Replies
21
Views
1K
Arcker123
Arcker123
Aguywhodoesthings
  • Locked
Small additions for some Spider-Man villains (Marvel Comics)
Replies
10
Views
707
Antvasima
Antvasima
NikHelton
  • Locked
Downgrade of weapon users
2 3
Replies
95
Views
5K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Back
Top