Silver Samurai - Shelved till the other CRTs get resolved

[Antvasima]

You can probably edit it, yes.

 

[Tllmbrg]

To just High 8-C with possibly far higher or what Wok said?

 

[Antvasima]

Probably what Wokistan suggested, but if it is uncertain, we likely need more input.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I guess we'll wait for more input ig, because he has feats for physicals in both 8-C and High 8-C rn

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Andytrenom]

He has evidence for pure High 8-C but I have no clue how consistent it is

The ability additions are all fine

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

High 8-C in general makes sense to me.

 

[00potato]

Yeah High 8-C, Higher with sword (plus dura-negation via tachyons.) seems clear enough.

 

[Sandman31]

Just scale him to Wolverin with High 8-C via tachyon field, possibly higher

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Sandman31's solution.

 

[Tllmbrg]

But he has several High 8-C feats without it, heck he has only like what 1 feat rn of pure melee combat that's 8-C?
High 8-C, possibly far higher with tachyon field seems better imo

 

[Sandman31]

He also has been defeated by Wolverine and other lower tier characters before (Elektra etc) so I think 8-C is a good middle ground.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Wolverine is a bad example tho because literally Silver Samurai has no wincon against him considering he can't cut his skeleton and Wolverine's claws one shot him (We do rate them as 4-B as well so)
The Elektra fight iirc was her more outskilling and she didn't take a direct hit
Plus if we have him as High 8-C durability wise of taking hits from Spider-Man and Luke Cage then how is Elektra stuff not an outlier for her?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that may be a good point.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

High 8-C on his own seems good via scaling.

 

[Antvasima]

@The_Impress @DarkDragonMedeus @Firestorm808 @Sandman31 @Eficiente

What do you think that we should do here in terms of the scaling?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose High 8-C is fine in lack of better options.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the reply.

 

[The_Impress]

...what's the High 8-C durability scan?

 

[Tllmbrg]

The current scans on the page, the logic being that armour doesn't negate the damage dealt 100%

 

[Tllmbrg]

(If someone saw me send 2 messages before that it's cuz I misread)

 

[The_Impress]

Why doesn't it negate it 100%, Tilm?

You do know that 8-C values aren't exactly far away from High 8-C values anyhow

 

[Tllmbrg]

If it negated it 100% he'd not even be affected by it?
Plus it's like a bullet proof vest sorta deal, kinetic energy still carries over hence why your bones can still get broken from taking direct shots with it on you

Marvel High 8-Cs are what, 7.9 tons rn?
Even if the armour reduces his by around 75% he'd still be baseline High 8-C, and I really doubt that stuff like this reduces damage by that much

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

This CRT seems to be correct

 

[The_Impress]

He is affecfed by it enough, if it was his base durability, characters wouldn't have to say "The armor is the factor blunting my hits". Tilm if he had the same durability as his armor, why wear the armor in the first place, going by your logic

So are you saying his armor is High 8-C, but his bones below can be 8-C? As we are listing it rn?

Marvel High 8-Cs are 4 tons, going to be 3 Tons, not 8 tons, those are High 8-C+, and i absolutely doubt that one hit Luke Cage gave was meant to be a killshot towards Silver Samurai. Yes this does mean I even find the High 8-C+ as listed, as dumb

75% reduction of 3 tons gives 0.7ish tons, which is, 8-C. Current 4 tons also gives 8-C results.

Maybe read the profiles next time.

 

[Antvasima]

Impress makes sense to me.

 

[The_Impress]

Funnily enough btw, even 7.9 tons doesn't give High 8-C results, just gives high end 8-C+ results.

 

[Tllmbrg]

He is affecfed by it enough, if it was his base durability, characters wouldn't have to say "The armor is the factor blunting my hits". Tilm if he had the same durability as his armor, why wear the armor in the first place, going by your logic

So are you saying his armor is High 8-C, but his bones below can be 8-C? As we are listing it rn?

Marvel High 8-Cs are 4 tons, going to be 3 Tons, not 8 tons, those are High 8-C+, and i absolutely doubt that one hit Luke Cage gave was meant to be a killshot towards Silver Samurai. Yes this does mean I even find the High 8-C+ as listed, as dumb

75% reduction of 3 tons gives 0.7ish tons, which is, 8-C. Current 4 tons also gives 8-C results.

Maybe read the profiles next time.

Why you assuming a 75% reduction?
I literally threw that number to show how massive of a reduction he'd need if you scale of the other High 8-C calcs
Also why is it being a kill shot from Luke matters?
Going of his page none of his feats seem to be "I must put everything I got into this" and rather casual for some while at it and he was pissed at the guy so I doubt he'd throw a soft punch

Also I never implied his base durability is the same as his armour so please don't put words into my mouth, I said and I quote "So considering Silver Samurai doesn't get bruised by those attacks he should scale albeit lower" (Yes it's a hyperbole but points stands I never said same durability)
And even if they were he'd want to wear armour because you don't want to get hit directly by an attack?
Not like the armour hinders him particularly so you can't argue it's impractical for him
Also again I said around because 2 tons is like 25 point something precent from 7.9

 

[Tllmbrg]

To add why he'd want to wear armour, armour is more meant to deal with sharp force rather then blunt like swords and arrows

 

[The_Impress]

Why you assuming a 75% reduction?
I literally threw that number to show how massive of a reduction he'd need if you scale of the other High 8-C calcs

Because you gave it as an example. What percentage reduction is it stated otherwise Tilm, if you can enlighten me?

Also why is it being a kill shot from Luke matters?
Going of his page none of his feats seem to be "I must put everything I got into this" and rather casual for some while at it and he was pissed at the guy so I doubt he'd throw a soft punch

Mhm, and how many characters do you see scaling to Luke Cage as a result?

Also again I said around because 2 tons is like 25 point something precent from 7.9

It's of 8 tons. You know rounding off isn't an appreciated tactic?

"So considering Silver Samurai doesn't get bruised by those attacks he should scale albeit lower" (Yes it's a hyperbole but points stands I never said same durability)

Hyperbole in your argument. Nice.

This is the exact same verse that presumes you can be from High 8-C to 4-B wearing a suit of armor, despite being 10-B. Wok's realistic physics you're quoting, doesn't work here if the verse HAS shown similiar concept being ignored by it repeatedly.

The two feats you DO show of him without his armor, have him getting dazed by an 8-C and getting his arm broken by a stronger 8-C.

Also surviving =/= scaling in Marvel, since ever. Spider-Man can survive glancing hits from Heralds and Thanos and Hulk villains. They all survive everything.

 

[Wokistan]

"Why doesn't it negate it 100%, Tilm?"

Because this is just not how armor works. As for the "Wok's realistic physics you're quoting, doesn't work here if the verse HAS shown similiar concept being ignored by it repeatedly.", that doesn't really work when this suit of armor isn't shown to work that way and isn't like some special high tech suit or whatever. It's ostensibly just samurai armor. This bit isn't really important to the durability though.

If we are to accept the bit where he grabs spidey and slams him into a wall so hard that spidey immedately blacks out and starts complaining about all his bones feeling broken, newton's third would get his base durability there.

 

[The_Impress]

that doesn't really work when this suit of armor isn't shown to work that way and isn't like some special high tech suit or whatever.

So Iron Man Model 1 to 3, Captain America's shield, Crimson Dynamo Mk. 1, Rhino's suit, Hammerhead's plate and god knows what are now free to scale to their character's base durability. Good to know we can ignore actual showcase, Wok.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Mhm, and how many characters do you see scaling to Luke Cage as a result?

If other feats support it I don't see why not use it, not like it's the only High 8-C feat he has

It's of 8 tons. You know rounding off isn't an appreciated tactic?


Hyperbole in your argument. Nice.

I said around, because when I plagued it an online calculator it gave me like 25.6% for 7.9 tons
And I claimed anyways that he scales lower so just bad wording on my end

The two feats you DO show of him without his armor, have him getting dazed by an 8-C and getting his arm broken by a stronger 8-C.

Also surviving =/= scaling in Marvel, since ever. Spider-Man can survive glancing hits from Heralds and Thanos and Hulk villains. They all survive everything.

Spider-Woman hasn't been revised yet so like why you arguing over her?
And I already gave counter arguments for the durability feats, not to mention I'm pretty with the way Wolverine broken his arm that's be a LS thing rather then AP or leverage

 

[Wokistan]

Do those characters all have physical feats on the level of their durability? No.

They're also shown to work that way and/or are weird magitek armor.

That didn't work as a response to any facet of my comment at all.

Edit: Didn't notice rhino was in there, and sure? I doubt he's like some weird worm character who has "resistance to self damage" as opposed to just durability off newton's third law, so yeah being physically high 8-C would make his durability as such.

 

[The_Impress]

Do those characters all have physical feats on the level of their durability? No.

Does this one? Please provide me, him tanking a High 8-C attack at base.

They're also shown to work that way and/or are weird magitek armor.

Note the examples, they're not.

That didn't work as a response to any facet of my comment at all.

Because the premise is reliant on this logic being a thing verse considers in the first place.

If other feats support it I don't see why not use it, not like it's the only High 8-C feat he has

Because scaling to Luke Cage gives him 2x+ AP than he actually would get.

And I already gave counter arguments for the durability feats, not to mention I'm pretty with the way Wolverine broken his arm that's be a LS thing rather then AP or leverage

Instantaneous LS is AP.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Because scaling to Luke Cage gives him 2x+ AP than he actually would get.

What? and what's the problem if he has higher durability then AP?

Instantaneous LS is AP.

Okay but if someone bends you it isn't the same as getting punched like at all
Even if that translates to AP it'd not mean the same level of durability against both

 

[Wokistan]

Please provide me, him tanking a High 8-C attack at base.

Newton's third law, image in this comment

Note the examples, they're not.

Iron man is definitely weird high tech armor shit, Cap's shield has vibranium stuff going on which doesn't have a standard relationship with force, Crimson Dynamo's also tech shit, Hammerhead's plate is only in one part of his body.

Because the premise is reliant on this logic being a thing verse considers in the first place.

Yes, we assume things follow reality unless proven otherwise. There's no proof otherwise with silver samurai.

 

[The_Impress]

What? and what's the problem if he has higher durability then AP?

...Because you haven't provided convincing evidence for him to be High 8-C+ in durability. Are you trying to be dumb...?

Okay but if someone bends you it isn't the same as getting punched like at all

It's a higher level of AP, yes, implying it is still 8-C, scaling to said character's full output.

Iron man is definitely weird high tech armor shit, Cap's shield has vibranium stuff going on which doesn't have a standard relationship with force, Crimson Dynamo's also tech shit, Hammerhead's plate is only in one part of his body.

Iron Man Model 1 to 3 don't, read the issues, Captain America's shield not having standard relationships with force, scan of this?, Crimson Dynamo Mk 1 doesn't, read the issues, Hammerhead rams full force into tackles with High 8-Cs using his plate, implying by Newton's 3rd Law he will scale.

Yes, we assume things follow reality unless proven otherwise

Yes, and the premise of your argument is, it isn't proven otherwise within the verse itself.

Lil' note, I'm sick rn so I'll be responding tomorrow-ish now. Mobile screen pains me and quoting is even more of a bitch

 

[Tllmbrg]

...Because you haven't provided convincing evidence for him to be High 8-C+ in durability. Are you trying to be dumb...?

So barely taking damage from a High 8-C attack and then taking hit from the High 8-C+ isn't enough?

It's a higher level of AP, yes, implying it is still 8-C, scaling to said character's full output.

No, you do realise you can break someone's hand without exerting the same force you punch with yes?

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Impress. Marvel isn't logical at all when it comes to scaling.