Shūkurō Tsukishima vs Yami Sukehiro

[azontr]

Is this a real vote? its hard to tell sometimes ngl.

It is lmao, I'm just being a dumbass.

 

[Arkenis]

inb4 we have people arguing mana and fullbrings equalized

 

[SuperStar]

Mana and Fullbrings is now equalized

 

[Deceived3596]

Yami looks like he smells like serious BO and cigarettes so yeah, Tsuki FRA.

Is this also a real vote?

 

[Arcker123]

Mana and Fullbrings is now equalized

Corny

Faster than Mana Zone yeah, but not ki sensing? Ki Sensing is something Yami has active at all times so there isn't anything Bringer Light will help Tsuki do that Yami will not see before he actually activates the move. Even when it does bypass Yami's ESP, Yami will have already "seen" the future before Tsuki uses BL

Ki Sensing (Can detect the Ki, otherwise known as life energy, and killing intent of others in order to locate them and dodge their attacks, mainly used as Precognition. Far greater Precognition when he combines it with Mana Zone, He can react to his opponents' movements before they make them similar to Julius's Precognition)

The profile would seem to imply that he needs to combine it with mana zone to do precog movements, which won’t happen before Bringer Light spam.

and then will proceed to use Mana Skin to Power Null Tsuki before he gets tagged by BOTE. Then go from there to use Mana Zone etc etc

Prove Fullbring can be equalized ngl

Can’t Tsukishima also use his powernull against that?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Arnold BL doesn’t block anything it just bypasses senses.

yeah i meant it bypasses senses to what?

"Unlike Shunpo, it would disturb the surrounding spiritual pressure to a minimal amount and could be said to be similar to Sonido in that it was covert and allowed one to take an opponent by surprise"

So it isn't an exact 1:1 comparison towards Sonido but it's extremely close in functionality to Sonido, hence why it's limited.

And from this it bypasses spiritual pressure senses.

wouldn't this only bypass Yami's magic detection? Magic detection is different from his Ki. Ki just senses the vague presence someone exists.

Can we really compare sensing reiatsu this to Ki?

 

[Nierre]

Wanna prove that mana can be equalized with Fullbrings?

Fair enough I suppose but you guys were also using Bringer Light, which blocks Reiatsu/Reiryoku, against Ki Sensing which doesn't use either of them so I don't think Ki Sensing should or would be negated since they aren't equalized, correct?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So uh, Bringer Light GG unless Ki Sensing is layered ig?

No

not GG

Death Thrust could blitz him since its superior to Iai slash that blitzed Dante.

Oh, by the way to reinforce Nierre's point. What is stopping Yami from reading Tsukihima's intention with Bringer Light before actually using Bringer Light?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Fair enough I suppose but you guys were also using Bringer Light, which blocks Reiatsu/Reiryoku, against Ki Sensing which doesn't use either of them so I don't think Ki Sensing should or would be negated since they aren't equalized, correct?

That is my point exactly.

That thing works on Mana Detection under SBA but not KI.

 

[Deceived3596]

Can we really compare sensing reiatsu this to Ki?

Yes since Reiryoku/Reiatsu within Bleach is directly tied to one's life-force.

Characters are able to sense the state of someone physically through sensing their Reiatsu.

So Ki sensing should also be affected by Bringer Light.

 

[Epsilon_R]

I don't get the whole thing. What senses does BL bypass in the first place?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don't get the whole thing. What senses does BL bypass in the first place?

The ability to sense Reiatsu and it is being equalized with Ki as though they are similar concepts.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yes since Reiryoku/Reiatsu within Bleach is directly tied to one's life-force.

Characters are able to sense the state of someone physically through sensing their Reiatsu.

So Ki sensing should also be affected by Bringer Light.

Ki senses vague sense of someone’s existence, muscle movements, breathing patterns, etc. they refer to all of these as life energy. It’s not like one form of life force that can be equalized.

Even lifeless rocks, contain Ki.
Honestly it just feels like Ki is short for Kinetic energy at this point.

 

[Arkenis]

I don't get the whole thing. What senses does BL bypass in the first place?

Something like Pesquisa can sense one's spiritual pressure and it can bypass this given Grimmjow was using it and it also disturbed the spiritual pressure. It would definitely throw Yami off who has to aim his death thrust.

 

[Arcker123]

Ki senses vague sense of someone’s existence, muscle movements, breathing patterns, etc. they refer to all of these as life energy. It’s not like one form of life force that can be equalized.

Ki even senses lifeless rocks

I… don’t understand how this is a defeater at all? We would normally equalize shit if it’s similar enough, and Decieved provided reasoning as to why Reiatsu/Reiryoku would be similar enough to equalize to Ki due to them both acting as life forces.

Power systems can have differences and can still be equalized, so long as they are shown to be relevantly similar, which Decieved showed.

I don't get the whole thing. What senses does BL bypass in the first place?

Reiatsu sensing and the like which for the purposes of Vs battle would be equalized to Ki sensing.

 

[LordGinSama]

Is this also a real vote?

Yes-

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Something like Pesquisa can sense one's spiritual pressure and it can bypass this given Grimmjow was using it and it also disturbed the spiritual pressure. It would definitely throw Yami off who has to aim his death thrust.

Yami aims in the direction he predicts Tsukihima will go.

 

[Arkenis]

Yami aims in the direction he predicts Tsukihima will go.

BL says no. Another thing, how good is Yami's ki sensing at sensing something moving from different spot to different spot? It's fine if he can sense like basic movements but if tsukishima moves randomly then could he still perfectly aim?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I… don’t understand how this is a defeater at all? We would normally equalize shit if it’s similar enough, and Decieved provided reasoning as to why Reiatsu/Reiryoku would be similar enough to equalize to Ki due to them both acting as life forces.

Power systems can have differences and can still be equalized, so long as they are shown to be relevantly similar, which Decieved showed.

the differences aren’t little enough to be equalize. Reiatsu isn’t muscle movements. Reiatsu isn’t the action of someone looking at you. Reiatsu might be a vague sense that someone is there. Reiatsu is not breathing pattern.

More differences than similarities G.

 

[Arcker123]

Also @Deceived, tally the Yano votes too

 

[Arnoldstone18]

BL says no. Another thing, how good is Yami's ki sensing at sensing something moving from different spot to different spot? It's fine if he can sense like basic movements but if tsukishima moves randomly then could he still perfectly aim?

BL doesn’t say “No” because Yami already predicted before it is used.

And it’s range is average human size and several meters far.

 

[Arkenis]

BL doesn’t say “No” because Yami already predicted before it is used.

And it’s range is average human size and several meters far.

it just resist that though


The speed difference on top of the fact bl can resist sensing such as life force which is all ki sensing is, just makes hitting Tsukishima harder to hit with death thrust.

 

[Nierre]

It is thought based vs an action so obviously Ki Sensing will activate and predict Tsuki before he can use BL

 

[Arnoldstone18]

it just resist that though


The speed difference on top of the fact bl can resist sensing such as life force which is all ki sensing is, just makes hitting Tsukishima harder to hit with death thrust.

Apart from what Nierre said

Again “life energy” is a completely different term in black clover. It is not similar in any way shape or form to Reiatsu.

And Ki is a term for many different types of life energies so the best you can do is equalize one type to one of the types of life energies Yami can read.

 

[KingTempest]

Bringer Light isn't stopping Ki sensing based on that loose ass resistance

 

[Arnoldstone18]

 

[Deceived3596]

Bringer Light isn't stopping Ki sensing based on that loose ass resistance

Pure Cope.

@Arnoldstone18 I'll address you post later, currently dealing with irl stuff rn.

 

[Arkenis]

Apart from what Nierre said

Again “life energy” is a completely different term in black clover. It is not similar in any way shape or form to Reiatsu.

And Ki is a term for many types of life energies so the best you can do is equalize one type to one of the types of life energies Yami can read.

They all have to do with life force of the person though, One is the life force from ones soul and the other is from movements and feelings of another person, they are not at all different to the point they can't be equalized in this regard. Ya pulling at some short ass straws rn.

 

[Arcker123]

Bringer Light isn't stopping Ki sensing based on that loose ass resistance

I already beat you up on Discord about this lmaoooooooo

 

[SuperStar]

Damn

 

[KingTempest]

I already beat you up on Discord about this lmaoooooooo

didn't beat up nobody

They all have to do with life force of the person though, One is the life force from ones soul and the other is from movements and feelings of another person, they are not at all different to the point they can't be equalized in this regard. Ya pulling at some short ass straws rn.

You literally cannot compare the energy that we even consider ectoplasm and potent ass soul manipulation to the energy drawn from feelings and emotions.

They are definitely different.

 

[Arcker123]

didn't beat up nobody

Pure Cope.

You literally cannot compare the energy that we even consider ectoplasm and potent ass soul manipulation to the energy drawn from feelings and emotions.

They are definitely different.

This isn’t an actual response to what Deceived argued.

 

[KingTempest]

This isn’t an actual response to what Deceived argued.

quote his argument

 

[Arcker123]

Yes since Reiryoku/Reiatsu within Bleach is directly tied to one's life-force.

Characters are able to sense the state of someone physically through sensing their Reiatsu.

So Ki sensing should also be affected by Bringer Light.

 

[Arkenis]

Another thing to add is the that

You literally cannot compare the energy that we even consider ectoplasm and potent ass soul manipulation to the energy drawn from feelings and emotions.

They are definitely different.

I'm comparing the sensing of them to each other. one's based off sensing movements and feelings of someone being near and the other senses one's soul's energy. This is not as different as you're making it at all.

 

[KingTempest]

Yes since Reiryoku/Reiatsu within Bleach is directly tied to one's life-force.

Characters are able to sense the state of someone physically through sensing their Reiatsu.

So Ki sensing should also be affected by Bringer Light.

Life forces in different series don't all get tied together because they share the word "life force" or because they're tied to someone's "life force".

Life Force in its roots is Life Manipulation. Soul Manip can be tied to this but they aren't the same, which means that this loose interpretation is just wrong.

I'm comparing the sensing of them to each other. one's based off sensing movements and feelings of someone being near and the other senses one's soul's energy. This is not as different as you're making it at all.

Not as different huh. Ok, so here's my rebuttal.

This ability works by manipulating the spiritual energy around the user. So the literal souls around the user, making his soul harder to sense in a soul based verse.

Why would this shut down someone who senses via feelings and emotions?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

They all have to do with life force of the person though, One is the life force from ones soul and the other is from movements and feelings of another person, they are not at all different to the point they can't be equalized in this regard. Ya pulling at some short ass straws rn.

Again Life energies (PLURAL) is not Life forcee


In black clover there are many diffferent types of life energies the human body gives off, Yami reads these energies to predict. So why is the damn soul being equalized to muscle movements, breathing patterns, etc.?


HELL NO.

 

[Arkenis]

Why would this shut down someone who senses via feelings and emotions?

Not sure where you're getting emotions from, but the scan says ki is the term for all the life energy that the human body gives off, and it doesn't shut it down, it bypasses it.

Again Life energies (PLURAL) is not Life forcee


In black clover there are many diffferent types of life energies the human body gives off, Yami reads these energies to predict. So why is the damn soul being equalized to muscle movements, breathing patterns, etc.?

.... You can't be fr, Ki is a blanket term for all of those "energies" so they are the same.

 

[KingTempest]

Not sure where you're getting emotions from, but the scan says ki is the term for all the life energy that the human body gives off, and it doesn't shut it down, it bypasses it.

It's the term for energy given off by people and objects. This is not the same as your soul

.... You can't be fr, Ki is a blanket term for all of those "energies" so they are the same.

Who lied to you and told you this

 

[Arkenis]

Who lied to you and told you this

Yūki Tabata