Should Creepypasta and Creepypasta-derived media be allowed in our site?

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, I didn't say "Anything" it's more so they should be analyzed case by case. I don't think Tails Gets Trolled or Super Mario Bros Z should be allowed; the former sounds more appropriate on FC/OC wiki. It's basically just a flash animated Mario/Sonic crossover with Dragon Ball Z style sound effects, fight scenes, and narrative. And Tails gets trolled still just seems more like it's intent is to as the title suggests troll Tails. But I do think Bambu makes sense mostly regarding the CreepyPasta stuff with Marble Hornet sounding fine.

 

[Agnaa]

And Tails gets trolled still just seems more like it's intent is to as the title suggests troll Tails.

That's just who it opened on, it quickly (within a few days) stepped away from that to a grander shounen story with a variety of fan/original characters, with Tails just being part of a wider team that opposes the trolls. There's a little over 100 original characters, and a bit over 100 fan characters (from a few dozen different rightsholders).

 

[MrKerf]

Can we define the line as... Well, anything that is created based on preexisting licensed work would be considered fan fiction?
I feel like it is fitting with both common sense and our rules. And it would naturally exclude Tails gets trolled, Mario Bros Z or Minecraft novels.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Anyways as far as I can tell people can agree on this:

Shouldn't be deleted either way:
Marble Hornet, TribeTwelve/EveryManHybridMan, Sony Films

Uncertain but likely not:
The Slenderman video games

Delete:
Everything else

Anyone takes issue with this?

 

[Jamesthetaker]

I have no problem with it.

 

[Antvasima]

And Tails gets trolled still just seems more like it's intent is to as the title suggests troll Tails.

That's just who it opened on, it quickly (within a few days) stepped away from that to a grander shounen story with a variety of fan/original characters, with Tails just being part of a wider team that opposes the trolls. There's a little over 100 original characters, and a bit over 100 fan characters (from a few dozen different rightsholders).

It is still a fanfiction story. That is extremely inappropriate for our wiki to branch off into featuring. We have sister wikis for that purpose instead.

 

[Antvasima]

Can we define the line as... Well, anything that is created based on preexisting licensed work would be considered fan fiction?
I feel like it is fitting with both common sense and our rules. And it would naturally exclude Tails gets trolled, Mario Bros Z or Minecraft novels.

Yes, I agree with this.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyways as far as I can tell people can agree on this:

Shouldn't be deleted either way:
Marble Hornet, TribeTwelve/EveryManHybridMan, Sony Films

Uncertain but likely not:
The Slenderman video games

Delete:
Everything else

Anyone takes issue with this?

What do our other staff members here think about this?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Okay. Thank you for the reply.

@Damage3245 @Mr._Bambu @DarkDragonMedeus

What do you think?

Agnaa accurately gave my position- though we may disagree on some of the finer points, I am generally in favor of keeping licensed works or things inspired by but not necessarily about Slenderman. Other things can go. As I've said, I'm not familiar with the TribeTwelve or EverymanHybrid stuff, so while that seems to be the main point of contention right now I have very little to offer for that conversation besides my general point of view. If it fits in what I said I'd accept, I'll probably accept it. If it doesn't, I probably won't.

I know for a fact that Marble Hornets ought to be fine as it does not include a character named "Slenderman", though it is suspiciously close. It is distinct enough to have licensed its own movie. The Eight Pages and The Arrival are, ostensibly, professionally published video games. We know that the professional license for Slender was active when the games were made, so it is likely they had access to it. Thus these two IPs are fine to remain, though should probably receive their own verse pages.

I like the direction of MrKerf's idea though that isn't rigorously defined. "Based on" is vague wording- Marble Hornets is, indeed, based on Slenderman. It draws much of its inspiration for the primary antagonist from him. So while I approve of the notion, I'd like better phrasing, aye. We all have sufficient common sense to know what does and doesn't cross the line, but I believe Agnaa is pushing for very specific wordage. May as well provide it, while we're at it.

 

[Agnaa]

Eh, I'm fine with going by common sense.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Alright so Marble Hornet is staying, the Slenderman video games are staying and the films are staying

Now I checked and the comic the Rake from is by MrCreepyPasta who if we delete the Creepypasta Collection should also have this nuked
The Eyeless Jack game is a mobile app made by Rzerogames who seem iffy to me so I'd axe it
Jeff The Killer games seem to be made by way smaller in scope and made by unknown people so probs better to axe it
Going by the TribeTwelve wiki Slenderman is a named character who is a major force in the story so

 

[Antvasima]

@Moritzva @Mr._Bambu @Agnaa @Damage3245 @Abstractions @DarkDragonMedeus

So should we add a new Editing Rules text here, and if so, what should it say exactly?

 

[Agnaa]

idk about the Slenderman games. The Eight Pages was a free indie game created by two people in Unity in 2012, there's no mention of any of the known rightsholders to it in the Wikipedia article about it. It wasn't published on any marketplace. The sequel to it made a year later (The Arrival), however, did have the original author of Slenderman working on it. The profile's based on both games, so maybe we'd consider it retroactively allowed like we do with RvB?

The other Slenderman game page we feature; Mark Slender from Haunt; it's a free indie game too obscure to have a Wikipedia page. It was originally titled "Haunt: The Real Slender Game" but was renamed due to copyright issues. I can find no record of Eric/Sony having approved it. It seems like they then tried selling a remake called Haunted Memories, but they never got past "episode two" of it, and ended up taking the game down. This one seems like it should probably be deleted, imo.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we add a new Editing Rules text here, and if so, what should it say exactly?

So about this...

 

[Mr. Bambu]

idk about the Slenderman games. The Eight Pages was a free indie game created by two people in Unity in 2012, there's no mention of any of the known rightsholders to it in the Wikipedia article about it. It wasn't published on any marketplace. The sequel to it made a year later (The Arrival), however, did have the original author of Slenderman working on it. The profile's based on both games, so maybe we'd consider it retroactively allowed like we do with RvB?

The other Slenderman game page we feature; Mark Slender from Haunt; it's a free indie game too obscure to have a Wikipedia page. It was originally titled "Haunt: The Real Slender Game" but was renamed due to copyright issues. I can find no record of Eric/Sony having approved it. It seems like they then tried selling a remake called Haunted Memories, but they never got past "episode two" of it, and ended up taking the game down. This one seems like it should probably be deleted, imo.

Slender the Eight Pages is apparently by the same studio as The Arrival. So yeah, I suppose retroactively justifying it is fine, though it's entirely possible they had the original creator on it at the time.

The other game sounds like a *******, toss it in the bin. Random indie games featuring Slender are a no-go.

 

[Tllmbrg]

So about this...

"Do not make pages for Creepypasta or media that directly uses said Creeypasta unless it is from a reputable publisher" ?

 

[Antvasima]

"Do not make pages for Creepypasta or media that directly uses said Creeypasta unless it is from a reputable publisher" ?

That seems to make sense to me. What do the rest of you think?

 

[MrKerf]

I feel like it is way too specific. I like the idea of rule I proposed above better, with its nature of encompassing everything, but with off wording and going by common sense, we can rewrite it instead, making Creepypasta an example to said rule.

 

[Agnaa]

Maybe also add a link to this thread? A "See this thread for more information" sorta thing, since it's hard to nail down all the nuance in a short rule.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe also add a link to this thread? A "See this thread for more information" sorta thing, since it's hard to nail down all the nuance in a short rule.

We should preferably feature all of the most relevant information within the wiki itself. It is very bad form to force our visitors to try to make sense of the largely disorganised information in external discussion threads.

 

[Antvasima]

Can we define the line as... Well, anything that is created based on preexisting licensed work would be considered fan fiction?
I feel like it is fitting with both common sense and our rules. And it would naturally exclude Tails gets trolled, Mario Bros Z or Minecraft novels.

I feel like it is way too specific. I like the idea of rule I proposed above better, with its nature of encompassing everything, but with off wording and going by common sense, we can rewrite it instead, making Creepypasta an example to said rule.

Would somebody here be willing to try to incorporate the relevant information quoted above and featured elsewhere in this thread into a coherent rules text please?

 

[Agnaa]

Don't create profiles for verses that are heavily based on pre-existing works and weren't created with permission from the original rightsholders. Examples of these would include fanfiction, and most creepypastas.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Well I think it's more correct to say "creepypastas like Jeff The Killer and Tici Toby" since it's the prime example for the kind we don't allow
Stuff like Eyeless Jack's original tale should be fine since we have a verifiable author who even gave WoG on his stuff

 

[Agnaa]

I have never heard of Eyeless Jack, and the vast majority of creepypastas I've heard of would not meet our policies; that's why I went with "most".

 

[Tllmbrg]

I would rather specify the kind of creeypasta we don't allow since it's an entire medium
We seem to take issue with lost media creepypasta (Suicide Mouse, Squidward Suicide etc), video game creeypasta (Ben Drowned, Sonic EXE) and stuff that is fanfic (Slenderman media, most Jeff The Killer materials, Tici Toby etc)

So I think this better:

Don't create profiles for verses that are heavily based on pre-existing works and weren't created with permission from the original rightsholders. Examples of these would include fanfiction, and various types of creepypastas such as lost media, video game ones and derivite works such as The Creepypasta Collection and Channel Zero.

 

[Agnaa]

It should be "derivative" not "derivite". While I guess that's fine, idk if the elaboration is necessary.

Also, as discussed on Discord, Channel Zero is included on one of the original creators' websites, so it seems like it got permission.

I'd also say that works with unclear original authors are suspicious, but at that point it gets really wordy.

 

[MrKerf]

So I think this better:

I like it, but it's probably should be " are either heavily based on pre-existing works and/or were created without permission from the original rightsholders" since it would be possible otherwise to create a profile based on a work that has no rightsholders.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Don't create profiles for verses that are either heavily based on pre-existing works and and/or were created with permission from the original rightsholders. Examples of these would include fanfiction, and various types of creepypastas such as lost media, video game ones and derivative works such as The Creepypasta Collection or Let's Kill Jeff The Killer

Does this look good?

 

[Agnaa]

You wouldn't use "either" as well as "and/or". I'd say to cut the "either".

 

[Tllmbrg]

Don't create profiles for verses that are heavily based on pre-existing works or were created without permission from the original rightsholders. Examples of these would include fanfiction, and various types of creepypastas such as lost media, video game ones and derivative works such as The Creepypasta Collection or Let's Kill Jeff The Killer

How about this?

 

[Agnaa]

Actually, I think just the "and" was fine in the first place, now that I reread it again.

Simply being based on a pre-existing work shouldn't matter, as long as it's created with permission from the original rightsholders.

 

[MrKerf]

Actually, I think just the "and" was fine in the first place, now that I reread it again.

Simply being based on a pre-existing work shouldn't matter, as long as it's created with permission from the original rightsholders.

Again, there are works which are public domain, which is fine, but if they are "heavily based" on them, it would be a problem.

 

[Agnaa]

I don't think there are many, but fine.

You could say "pre-existing works that aren't in the public domain".

Or we could just say "most of this isn't allowed, check this thread for more info"....

 

[Antvasima]

I think that we already have Editing Rules against fanfiction in general, so mentioning it again might be redundant, although it doesn't cause any harm.

Can somebody investigate please?

 

[Agnaa]

We do, it is as follows:

Do not add any original or fan-made characters to the wiki. If you wish to create any original/fan-made character profiles, feel free to do so in the FC/OC wiki. "Original" here refers to relatively obscure characters from self-contained stories created by members and their friends, whereas "fan-made" refers to ones appearing within fanfiction or works containing a sufficient amount of another piece of fiction's copyrighted material without official permission.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so should we make a brief repetition, or simply add the new information below our current rule text in this regard?

 

[Agnaa]

We could also consider that rule sufficient as-is. I took it that the issue was more one of interpretation/enforcement, tbh.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we could add a more specific Creepypasta-centric rule here:

Editing Rules

The VS Battles Wiki presently consists of 34,442 pages, most of them listing the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. However, there is a tremendous amount of work involved in maintaining the accuracy of statistics and upholding a high quality for the profiles. In...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Agnaa]

Since certain types of creepypasta are likely to run afoul of our rules on fanfiction, they should be thoroughly checked to make sure that they're original, or have approval from the original creator(s), before they're added to the site.

 

[Antvasima]

How about this slightly modified version?

"Since certain types of Creepypasta are likely to conflict with our rules regarding fanfiction, they should be thoroughly evaluated to make sure that they are official creations or have approval from the original creator(s), before being added to this wiki."

I am open for accuracy improvements and better elaborations to be added to my draft text above.