Firstly, I'll say that I do like the opening post; it's a well-written, concise argument for the characters.
First of all Thanks. Now To start, I won't be dealing with the Kakashi part since you understand what my true point was in a follow up section so we’ll leave it at that
You're fine with
LES rules that currently the naruto-verse abides by, the contentions are whether or not they consume similar amounts of energy which is what I write about in a follow up to my energy section however I will do a bit in depth here :
The EPS value is derived from ETSB which at the very least
slowly expands over the course of 15 years to consume and recreate an entire dimension.
This process requires
a continuous and uninterrupted flow of chakra over that period, meaning the calculated EPS represents the absolute minimum amount of chakra Kaguya must be
constantly generating just to sustain the technique without exhausting herself.
This is not an indicator of her full power—it is a
low-end measure of what she can passively maintain over an extended period.
If a character can continuously output energy for 15 years without exhaustion, then their short-term, high-intensity attacks would be significantly stronger, as they are not constrained by the need for long-term sustainability.
I will use an analogy to explain this principle
- Imagine a runner jogging at a steady pace for 15 years without stopping.
- The fact that they can maintain this slow, constant speed does not mean they are incapable of sprinting at much higher speeds in short bursts.
- Similarly, EPS is Kaguya’s "jogging speed"—a safe, sustainable output—but her offensive techniques should be compared to sprinting, requiring far more energy in a much shorter time.
Kaguya does not need to conserve energy for 15 years during a battle—she can afford to use far greater chakra per second in a high-intensity fight
TLDR : If an energy output is something I am able to leave running in the background while prioritizing a fight, my combat ninjutsu would be massively higher than actions I perform passively
Techniques such as Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, and Susano—all powered by the Mangekyo Sharingan—utilize Dojutsu to enhance their potency. These abilities are far beyond anything else in the user’s ninjutsu arsenal, as Dojutsu-based techniques consistently draw several times greater chakra reserves and produce attacks of much higher potency compared to standard ninjutsu.
The Rinnegan just like the others does this to a far superior level, Obito fears what would happen if Madara were to attain a complete set of Rinnegans, he notes how it brings out more chakra and powers to the point of making Obito feel like losing himself. The second Rinnegan allows Madara to quadruple his Limbo Clone Count, showcasing his power jump, using two rinnegans runs out the battery faster but he grows stronger because of their exponential power boost
What differentiates EGVF from other jutsu is that it is powered by Kaguya’s
Dojutsu that draws in chakra in unprecedented
levels + Combined with Master Level Chakra Control, resulting in a
massive power gap compared to other jutsu, logically placing this far higher than the other normal basic abilities. The Pinnacle of Kaguya's power is this Jutsu.
If we look at the few attacks she performs after absorbing the additional chakra that actually land on someone:
I addressed Kaguya destroying Kakashi's Susano'o above, but Naruto's clone getting struck by the All-Killing Ash Bone looks virtually the same as when
he was struck by it earlier in the fight. For all intents and purposes, her Ninjutsu is not depicted having gotten any superior since then.
Not depicted stronger? Because it’s the same ash-bone jutsu?
It's not gonna explode more
What do you want it to do? make more ashes?
The current proposal is that Kaguya, by absorbing the additional chakra from the Infinite Tsukuyomi victims, amplified by her Ninjutsu's potency by about 9.06 billion times, since that's the difference between what her Ninjutsu scale to before (845.9 Exatons) and what it's being scaled to after (7.664 Quettatons).
If Kaguya had truly gotten stronger to that extent... then why did she have to resort to such measures as creating the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb in the first place? Her Eighty Gods Vacuum Fist, which she can spam out, would each be billions of times stronger than Naruto or Sasuke... Instead of contemplating running away from them, she could've just swatted them like bugs yet the only thing that crosses her mind when cornered by them is to hit them with the durability-negating Ash-Bones or to escape to another dimension, or to fly away.
Both
EGVF and
Ash-bones are Star level attacks, Ash bones are long range projectiles with equipped dura neg deco hax, its a more wiser attack to use in combat because even your opponent somehow defends against that the Deco hax would nullify even defenses and those dura neg attacks hax the same AP, if 9 billion x ap difference can stomp naruto and sasuke the ash bones would do that, guess what? neither work because the story helps them evade it
Ash-bones aren’t capped to mid ranged or super large size so they’re way harder to evade
why did she have to resort to such measures as creating the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb in the first place?
Because ETSO destroys and recreates a whole space continuum
EGVF and Ash-Bones are made to be killing jutsu, they don’t create dimensions, it kills two birds with one stone. That's it
There is the statement from Black Zetsu that Kaguya's power increased, enhancing her "might and speed exponentially"... but the peformance she gives in the fight doesn't support a jump of that magnitude. As mentioned, she doesn't exhibit any Ninjutsu feats that would put her far stronger than she was before, and as far as her speed goes she only
narrowly manages to avoid Naruto and Sasuke, and also suffers from getting
tagged by both Kakashi's Kamui Raikiri and
Sakura's punch, plus
Kakashi reacting to her attack speed multiple times. If we're to believe that her raw power with Ninjutsu increased billions of times, it seems odd that her speed seems barely better than before despite both power and speed being grouped together as being increased by the chakra she absorbed.
1. Deadass never stated anywhere Speed and AP have the same increase, it's a presupposition with no merit
2. The entire reasoning behind that statement is increased chakra potency, not that her base got 5045040x faster, its just that the chakra potency is x superior and she can choose to amplify the stats exponentially as a result, that's the context of this scan, that's what it means, her muscle energy did not get morphed, those buffs come in the form of Chakra Amps which they can choose to improve, that’s the point of body flicker, She can amp herself however she wants because she has
free use of her chakra
e.g. kcm1 gets new chakra power that he can use to amplify and get even faster but does not retain speed all the time as the speed amp is because of on chakra, again they’re not multiplying his leg muscles, this transformative power he got is the same power she got which is chakra based stat amplification
Since most of the consistency statements aren't to do with the root issue I have with the scaling as far as I can see, I'll just address one of them:
This translation that you've linked to does not have Isshiki say he has insurmountable power, but that he is brimming with incredible power.
The wording deadass doesn't matter the end goal is that he's destroying his body that's what you gotta focus on
Now, frankly I can see where the OP is coming from with their arguments and I do think they're well-written but for, what I see, the two options that exist being:
- Kaguya absorbing chakra from the victims of Infinite Tsukuyomi made her indeterminately stronger than before.
And:
- Kaguya absorbing chakra from the victims of Infinite Tsukuyomi made her billions of times stronger than before.
Then the former option seems to be a safer conclusion for me. Minimizing the scaling chain so that it's only Kaguya's Ninjutsu, and Isshiki, and Baryon Mode Naruto, is a good conservative approach
Yeah I’m fine with the scaling chain being limited to V2 Kaguya via Ninjutsu, isshiki and nard only
In Conclusion….
