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Sry, I was just curious, I'll just ask over on the all-purpose threadThat is derailing the purpose of this thread.
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Sry, I was just curious, I'll just ask over on the all-purpose threadThat is derailing the purpose of this thread.
Okay. Thank you for helping out.Basically we have, I'm currently writing a list of the changes that have been discussed here. I don't know when it'll be done, but it should explain enough that even people unfamiliar with the verse can judge the changes for themselves. I'll also have a TL;DR of the changes at the end, in case no one wants to read through everything.
is it the two of them equaling the SSNS or them each equaling the SSNS? If it's the latter, then we may have a case for 7-C Senran Kaguratalking about a 2v1 at the least
It is very evident that she was raised as a samurai:Possibly Gifted, as a class rep, she is considered the top of the class and one of the more intelligent and experienced shinobi in Hanzō Academy, her family is implied to be of the bushi caste which would mean that she had potentially trained in Kōdō, Chadō, Kadō, Kenjutsu, Battōjutsu, Naginata-jutsu, Kyūjutsu, Ninjutsu, Shodō, and Bōjutsu; would have definitely had the resources and probably has learned several languages as part of her training, but to what extent is unknown due to not much detail provided.
Do you have evidence that she has trained in those styles
The creation of Japanese writing system involved noble clans adapting the Chinese language in the Heian period so that the masses can learn it, it's a stretch to say Ikagura's clan was one of those clans, but samurai definitely did come into being during the Heian period, and there are theories that there were shinobi during that period too.and knows multiple language?
That's she a bushi/samurai?you need actual evidence
@Sir_Ovens @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_KrukovAlright, I'm going to post my big list. I'll need opinions to see if I'm missing anything, and once we're good we can inform staff to have a look at it.
I'll start with the power and ability section, basically a list of general abilities that all shinobi will get.
As they're universal across them. I'll also be bolding the powers here, and adding scans to many existing abilities as you'll see later.
General Shinobi Abilities
Supernatural Willpower (Elite shinobi have enough willpower to resist the passive effects of the Super Secret Ninja Scroll. Shinobi can still fight even when they're on fire), Extrasensory Perception (Shinobi can detect the presences of others, knowing their location, numbers, and even tell if they're evil or not), Stealth Mastery (All shinobi are trained in the art of stealth), Pseudo-Flight (All shinobi can push off the air with a jump, and can even dash while in mid air), Resistance to Madness Manipulation (Elite shinobi can resist the passive effects of the Super Secret Ninja Scroll, which turned multiple teams of lesser shinobi completely insane)
Hebijo Shinobi, such as Homura's Team and Miyabi's Team will have Resistance to Mind Manipulation (Hebijo students are immune to normal brainwashing done via hypnosis).
Burst | Versus | Deep Crimson
Burst characters are going to be the same rating they're currently are, which is 8-C+.
So there is no need to explain it in great detail.
However I do need to mention that in this key, Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura are both Low 7-C (2.4 KT). Via the destruction of Hebijo with their clash.
Before I move onto to their other keys, I need to explain why some other characters are scaling to Low 7-C as well. This will mainly focus on Daidōji and Rin.
Now Daidōji and Rin are seen as vastly superior to the shinobi students in almost all occasion. Daidōji is even stated to be stronger than all 5 Hanzō Academy girls put together in Burst Re:Newal. She is massively superior to them, the girls are usually afraid to even spar with her.
Going into the Senran Kagura Manga Daidōji "fights" Asuka and Homura and quite easily deals with them. Before she leaves, she tells both of them that if they want to entertain her they'll need power on par with the Super-Secret Ninja Scroll.
Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura are power drawn out by the Super-Secret Ninja Scroll and Engetsuka. The seventh blade Homura holds and is what she draws when becoming Crimson Homura. Daidōji even took noticed of it, and that it was interesting but worthless since she cannot draw it yet.
In order to only entertain her, they'll need to be Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura. The creator of Senran Kagura, Kenichiro Takaki, is also the writer/author for the manga. The manga itself is also just a retelling of the events in Burst with more details. Considering he is the one writing this story. Treating this as secondary canon should be considered fine. Daidōji statement is a reflection on how strong she actually is.
Daidōji should scale above Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura, as her line of fighting both of them at once would only entertain her. Another translation of this line, said that power would entertain her a little. Regardless, she is confident in fighting two people with the Scroll's power which is Low 7-C. This would scale to Rin who is usually shown as her equal, the two fight constantly and both have an even chance of beating the other.
Versus series take place 6 months after the events in Burst. Meaning the characters being much stronger wouldn't be a surprise, and they show it as well.
In Estival Versus, it's possible for all 5 Hanzo/Crimson Squad girls to fight and even defeat Daidōji/Rin. There are special missions in the game, where you can play as Daidōji/Rin against the students and beat them, or play as the students to defeat Daidōji/Rin. Both endings lead to the same cutscene, and even when Rin wins she comments that all of the girls are very strong. And beforehand she stated she was going fight with all of her strength.
Considering how we treat these events. This means the fight between them is a 50/50 chance of win or lose, and this also means they'd stand no chance in a 1v1 fight. As it takes all 5 of them, to just barely defeat Daidōji/Rin, and are exhausted afterwards even if they do win. I suggest downscaling to 8-A+ (550 Tons), as they are inferior and have no chance one on one. But all five of them together actually have a chance of beating them.
This affects all of the girls who have the Versus key. Also characters who only appear in Versus such as New Hebijo and Gessen.
This is simple, the students directly scale to Daidōji and Rin. Asuka and Homura are able to defeat them in battle. Homura is also able to defeat Rin in a 1v1, and the two fight together on multiple occasions in Deep Crimson. As the girls all basically fight each other and the Yōma Generals, they all scale to Low 7-C.
This game is the final game in the first timeline, and appears to be the girls at their strongest during the time I'm writing this.
But now to go onto to something bigger.
High 7-A+ scaling is now being considered. This rating comes from True Kagura. Kagura is a special existence, who's sole purpose is to slay Yōma. She is constantly reborn from something called the Reincarnation Sphere every 100 years. Her power is seen as immense, and she will continue to exist as long as Yōma exist.
When Kagura kills a certain number of Yōma, her body begins to crumble apart and she returns to the Reincarnation Sphere. However her returning to the Reincarnation Sphere has a side effect. The amount of energy in this process releases enough heat to wipe Kyoto off the map. This is why True Kagura is At least High 7-A, as this is just an side effect of her going back into the Sphere while her body is basically dying.
Current the profile says that Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura scaling to True Kagura is an outlier. In the end of Deep Crimson, in order to show Kagura that she doesn't need to hunt Yōma anymore and can live her life with Naraku. The two fought and defeated Kagura, as a way of showing her that they can defeat the Yōma for her.
Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura defeating True Kagura is not an outlier. As Deep Crimson is currently the last game in the first timeline, they have not fought weaker characters and lost like the page currently says. They've only ever fought True Kagura. And the statement of True Kagura holding back against them isn't something I've been able to find. I've only seen this mentioned here in versus boards and nowhere else.
As such Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura should be High 7-A via scaling to True Kagura.
Different from Kagura the person. The highest rank of shinobi in the series is called Kagura, this rank is likely named off Kagura herself. As the main purpose of shinobi who reach this rank is to slay Yōma. And there is direct statements that place Kagura rank shinobi as superior to Kagura's High 7-A feat.
During the events of Deep Crimson it's revealed that Dōgen, the antagonist from Burst, is trying to steal Kagura's power for himself.
Hanzō, a legendary shinobi who is strong enough to be a Kagura, says that Dōgen absorbing the power of Kagura from the Reincarnation Sphere, would give him power equal to a Hinin rank shinobi. Meaning that even with that High 7-A+ level of power, he still wouldn't be strong enough to be a Kagura.
The Kagura rank doesn't have any prejudice. Evil, good, or renegade shinobi are allowed to obtained the title. The only qualification for this title is power itself, being virtually invincible. The fact is that Dōgen with Kagura's power would only be Hinin rank is confirmation that to be a Kagura requires even stronger power.
Note: While it's possible for True Kagura's power to be greater, as they might not know how powerful her true strength is. The entire cast is aware that True Kagura going back into the Reincarnation Sphere will wipe Kyoto off the map, which is the High 7-A+ feat. And he was strong enough to be a Kagura in his prime, but choose not to.
He is aware of the kind of power Kagura can unleash, and knows the strength needed to be a Kagura. Hanzō clearly says that stealing that level of power would only be equal to a Hinin rank shinobi. This is a very clear statement that the power needed to wipe Kyoto off the map is inferior to the power needed to be a Kagura.
Both True Kagura and Kagura rank shinobi will upscale from this feat. As True Kagura's power wiping Kyoto off the map happens when her body is weak and crumbling away... Along with the fact it's just a side effect as well. And Kagura rank shinobi such as Prime Hanzō and Jasmine will scale above as well. Both as At least High 7-A+.
TL;DR:
The Burst students get split into three keys.
The Versus keys and Versus characters downscale to 8-A as 5 of them working together are capable of barely beating a Low 7-C character.
The Deep Crimson keys and characters scale to Low 7-C for being able to fight and win against Low 7-C characters.
Kagura Rank shinobi become High 7-A as they're stated to be stronger than a High 7-A feat.
Deep Crimson Ult. Asuka and Crimson Homura scaling to True Kagura is not an outlier anymore, as the reasoning for it being an outlier was faulty.
Sandbox 1, Sandbox 2, and Sandbox 3. Along with a sandbox to change the verse page. So you can see how all these changes look for some characters.
Don't know the series at all but the additions/changes seem fine to me.Alright, I'm going to post my big list. I'll need opinions to see if I'm missing anything, and once we're good we can inform staff to have a look at it.
I'll start with the power and ability section, basically a list of general abilities that all shinobi will get.
As they're universal across them. I'll also be bolding the powers here, and adding scans to many existing abilities as you'll see later.
General Shinobi Abilities
Supernatural Willpower (Elite shinobi have enough willpower to resist the passive effects of the Super Secret Ninja Scroll. Shinobi can still fight even when they're on fire), Extrasensory Perception (Shinobi can detect the presences of others, knowing their location, numbers, and even tell if they're evil or not), Stealth Mastery (All shinobi are trained in the art of stealth), Pseudo-Flight (All shinobi can push off the air with a jump, and can even dash while in mid air), Resistance to Madness Manipulation (Elite shinobi can resist the passive effects of the Super Secret Ninja Scroll, which turned multiple teams of lesser shinobi completely insane)
Hebijo Shinobi, such as Homura's Team and Miyabi's Team will have Resistance to Mind Manipulation (Hebijo students are immune to normal brainwashing done via hypnosis).
Burst | Versus | Deep Crimson
Burst characters are going to be the same rating they're currently are, which is 8-C+.
So there is no need to explain it in great detail.
However I do need to mention that in this key, Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura are both Low 7-C (2.4 KT). Via the destruction of Hebijo with their clash.
Before I move onto to their other keys, I need to explain why some other characters are scaling to Low 7-C as well. This will mainly focus on Daidōji and Rin.
Now Daidōji and Rin are seen as vastly superior to the shinobi students in almost all occasion. Daidōji is even stated to be stronger than all 5 Hanzō Academy girls put together in Burst Re:Newal. She is massively superior to them, the girls are usually afraid to even spar with her.
Going into the Senran Kagura Manga Daidōji "fights" Asuka and Homura and quite easily deals with them. Before she leaves, she tells both of them that if they want to entertain her they'll need power on par with the Super-Secret Ninja Scroll.
Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura are power drawn out by the Super-Secret Ninja Scroll and Engetsuka. The seventh blade Homura holds and is what she draws when becoming Crimson Homura. Daidōji even took noticed of it, and that it was interesting but worthless since she cannot draw it yet.
In order to only entertain her, they'll need to be Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura. The creator of Senran Kagura, Kenichiro Takaki, is also the writer/author for the manga. The manga itself is also just a retelling of the events in Burst with more details. Considering he is the one writing this story. Treating this as secondary canon should be considered fine. Daidōji statement is a reflection on how strong she actually is.
Daidōji should scale above Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura, as her line of fighting both of them at once would only entertain her. Another translation of this line, said that power would entertain her a little. Regardless, she is confident in fighting two people with the Scroll's power which is Low 7-C. This would scale to Rin who is usually shown as her equal, the two fight constantly and both have an even chance of beating the other.
Versus series take place 6 months after the events in Burst. Meaning the characters being much stronger wouldn't be a surprise, and they show it as well.
In Estival Versus, it's possible for all 5 Hanzo/Crimson Squad girls to fight and even defeat Daidōji/Rin. There are special missions in the game, where you can play as Daidōji/Rin against the students and beat them, or play as the students to defeat Daidōji/Rin. Both endings lead to the same cutscene, and even when Rin wins she comments that all of the girls are very strong. And beforehand she stated she was going fight with all of her strength.
Considering how we treat these events. This means the fight between them is a 50/50 chance of win or lose, and this also means they'd stand no chance in a 1v1 fight. As it takes all 5 of them, to just barely defeat Daidōji/Rin, and are exhausted afterwards even if they do win. I suggest downscaling to 8-A+ (550 Tons), as they are inferior and have no chance one on one. But all five of them together actually have a chance of beating them.
This affects all of the girls who have the Versus key. Also characters who only appear in Versus such as New Hebijo and Gessen.
This is simple, the students directly scale to Daidōji and Rin. Asuka and Homura are able to defeat them in battle. Homura is also able to defeat Rin in a 1v1, and the two fight together on multiple occasions in Deep Crimson. As the girls all basically fight each other and the Yōma Generals, they all scale to Low 7-C.
This game is the final game in the first timeline, and appears to be the girls at their strongest during the time I'm writing this.
But now to go onto to something bigger.
High 7-A+ scaling is now being considered. This rating comes from True Kagura. Kagura is a special existence, who's sole purpose is to slay Yōma. She is constantly reborn from something called the Reincarnation Sphere every 100 years. Her power is seen as immense, and she will continue to exist as long as Yōma exist.
When Kagura kills a certain number of Yōma, her body begins to crumble apart and she returns to the Reincarnation Sphere. However her returning to the Reincarnation Sphere has a side effect. The amount of energy in this process releases enough heat to wipe Kyoto off the map. This is why True Kagura is At least High 7-A, as this is just an side effect of her going back into the Sphere while her body is basically dying.
Current the profile says that Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura scaling to True Kagura is an outlier. In the end of Deep Crimson, in order to show Kagura that she doesn't need to hunt Yōma anymore and can live her life with Naraku. The two fought and defeated Kagura, as a way of showing her that they can defeat the Yōma for her.
Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura defeating True Kagura is not an outlier. As Deep Crimson is currently the last game in the first timeline, they have not fought weaker characters and lost like the page currently says. They've only ever fought True Kagura. And the statement of True Kagura holding back against them isn't something I've been able to find. I've only seen this mentioned here in versus boards and nowhere else.
As such Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura should be High 7-A via scaling to True Kagura.
Different from Kagura the person. The highest rank of shinobi in the series is called Kagura, this rank is likely named off Kagura herself. As the main purpose of shinobi who reach this rank is to slay Yōma. And there is direct statements that place Kagura rank shinobi as superior to Kagura's High 7-A feat.
During the events of Deep Crimson it's revealed that Dōgen, the antagonist from Burst, is trying to steal Kagura's power for himself.
Hanzō, a legendary shinobi who is strong enough to be a Kagura, says that Dōgen absorbing the power of Kagura from the Reincarnation Sphere, would give him power equal to a Hinin rank shinobi. Meaning that even with that High 7-A+ level of power, he still wouldn't be strong enough to be a Kagura.
The Kagura rank doesn't have any prejudice. Evil, good, or renegade shinobi are allowed to obtained the title. The only qualification for this title is power itself, being virtually invincible. The fact is that Dōgen with Kagura's power would only be Hinin rank is confirmation that to be a Kagura requires even stronger power.
Note: While it's possible for True Kagura's power to be greater, as they might not know how powerful her true strength is. The entire cast is aware that True Kagura going back into the Reincarnation Sphere will wipe Kyoto off the map, which is the High 7-A+ feat. And he was strong enough to be a Kagura in his prime, but choose not to.
He is aware of the kind of power Kagura can unleash, and knows the strength needed to be a Kagura. Hanzō clearly says that stealing that level of power would only be equal to a Hinin rank shinobi. This is a very clear statement that the power needed to wipe Kyoto off the map is inferior to the power needed to be a Kagura.
Both True Kagura and Kagura rank shinobi will upscale from this feat. As True Kagura's power wiping Kyoto off the map happens when her body is weak and crumbling away... Along with the fact it's just a side effect as well. And Kagura rank shinobi such as Prime Hanzō and Jasmine will scale above as well. Both as At least High 7-A+.
TL;DR:
The Burst students get split into three keys.
The Versus keys and Versus characters downscale to 8-A as 5 of them working together are capable of barely beating a Low 7-C character.
The Deep Crimson keys and characters scale to Low 7-C for being able to fight and win against Low 7-C characters.
Kagura Rank shinobi become High 7-A as they're stated to be stronger than a High 7-A feat.
Deep Crimson Ult. Asuka and Crimson Homura scaling to True Kagura is not an outlier anymore, as the reasoning for it being an outlier was faulty.
Sandbox 1, Sandbox 2, and Sandbox 3. Along with a sandbox to change the verse page. So you can see how all these changes look for some characters.
In my novel adaptation, it's not that they tell if their evil or not, more like they can detect a person's maliceExtrasensory Perception (Shinobi can detect the presences of others, knowing their location, numbers, and even tell if they're evil or not)
Here's something to not derail the thread, let's discuss if the Hypersonic feat can be used, whether or not the method is viable (she literally should be twirling her umbrella with the same force after all), the scaling does support the feat after allThat is kind of derailing as that doesn't involve the Senran Kagura profiles or their stats
It's part of the calc...as that'd be calc stacking
How can you not understand? I put the link in there and said what the modulus of elasticity is and said that the modulus of rupture is the value for pulverization we currently refer toApologies I have literally no idea what any of the means.