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Senran Kagura gets upgraded for real!

Status
Not open for further replies.
So have you reached any agreements here now?
 
Basically we have, I'm currently writing a list of the changes that have been discussed here. I don't know when it'll be done, but it should explain enough that even people unfamiliar with the verse can judge the changes for themselves. I'll also have a TL;DR of the changes at the end, in case no one wants to read through everything.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Basically we have, I'm currently writing a list of the changes that have been discussed here. I don't know when it'll be done, but it should explain enough that even people unfamiliar with the verse can judge the changes for themselves. I'll also have a TL;DR of the changes at the end, in case no one wants to read through everything.
Click to expand...
Okay. Thank you for helping out.
 
You know, Dai said the power of the Super Secret Ninja Scroll could entertain her, not outright defeat her. Could this mean that she’s stronger than the Super Secret Ninja Scroll?

Her statement sounds similar to Whis stating the Goku and Vegeta could give Beerus a good fight if they worked together
 
That's why she's at least Low 7-C. Since the implication was that they'd only entertain her.

I'm also sure she was talking about a 2v1 at the least.
 
IDK what that means. Just that both of them with power on par with the Super-Secret Ninja scroll would be needed to entertain her. Which does imply she's stronger, but not by how much. Not like she one hit defeats them or something. Since they wouldn't be entertaining that way.

Both of them with the power means Crimson Homura and Ultimate Asuka.
 
Would like to change Ikaruga's intelligence to this rating:
Possibly Gifted, as a class rep, she is considered the top of the class and one of the more intelligent and experienced shinobi in Hanzō Academy, her family is implied to be of the bushi caste which would mean that she had potentially trained in Kōdō, Chadō, Kadō, Kenjutsu, Battōjutsu, Naginata-jutsu, Kyūjutsu, Ninjutsu, Shodō, and Bōjutsu; would have definitely had the resources and probably has learned several languages as part of her training, but to what extent is unknown due to not much detail provided.
Click to expand...
It is very evident that she was raised as a samurai:

  • It is evident that Senran Kagura takes place in the real world as real world periods are mentioned in the opening such as the Sengoku Period and the Meiji Restoration
  • There are several instances in history of samurai acting as shinobi, with Hattori Hanzo being the most famous example
  • Hien is a nodachi, possibly a custom one at that, nodachi are difficult and expensive to manufacture and even train to use, normal citizens hired as shinobi would not have the ability to wield let alone buy such a weapon, but elite members of the bushi class would
  • The Hoo conglomerate is canonically a large financial chain of corporations, according to here by around the 1880s almost a quarter of prominent businessmen were from families the bushi class, what's to say Ikaruga's wasn't part of that percentage
  • The way that Ikaruga's shinobi tenshin outfit is designed, compared to her classmate who have thier outfits designed around some sort of variant of school uniform, her's is very military inspired, definitely rings some bells that her family comes from a military background
  • The way that she fights in her gameplay is heavily resembles real world kenjutsu techniques
  • Historically samurai change their names when they come of age, the names of the girls in Senran Kagura are actually code names, and considering that Ikaruga is 18 it's fair to say she would have chosen her name not just as a code name but as her samurai name
 
Her having design being similar to that type of style is just that, as design and nothing more. Just means they're inspired by it when creating her.

In universe Ikaruga can just be a fan of that time period. Do you have evidence that she has trained in those styles, and knows multiple language?
 
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TheRustyOne said:
Do you have evidence that she has trained in those styles
Click to expand...
youtube.com

✂️ Samurai jutsu

27 seconds · Clipped by Hagane no Saiyajin · Original video "Top 10 Most Effective WEAPON BASED Martial Arts" by Metatron
youtube.com youtube.com

Samurai also historcally practiced Kōdō, Chadō, Kadō as a practice of Zen Buddhism. Looking at her gameplay I this video sums up my thoughts on her fighting style

TheRustyOne said:
and knows multiple language?
Click to expand...
The creation of Japanese writing system involved noble clans adapting the Chinese language in the Heian period so that the masses can learn it, it's a stretch to say Ikagura's clan was one of those clans, but samurai definitely did come into being during the Heian period, and there are theories that there were shinobi during that period too.
 
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Who's to say? That isn't how this work, the burden of proof relies on you. Saying she might has zero bearing on her rating, you need actual evidence.

I didn't see what any of those videos had to do with Ikagura. If you can prove she studied these multiple things, that's great.

But we do not apply ratings based on speculation. No evidence, no rating, simple as that.
 
Evidence of the stuff you posted. Produce evidence that she has trained in all of those styles and knows multiple languages.

" Kōdō, Chadō, Kadō, Kenjutsu, Battōjutsu, Naginata-jutsu, Kyūjutsu, Ninjutsu, Shodō, and Bōjutsu; would have definitely had the resources and probably has learned several languages as part of her training, but to what extent is unknown due to not much detail provided."

Not maybe, could, or probably. Those kind of things don't cut it. You need evidence and scans.
 
Last edited:
Alright, I'm going to post my big list. I'll need opinions to see if I'm missing anything, and once we're good we can inform staff to have a look at it.

I'll start with the power and ability section, basically a list of general abilities that all shinobi will get.

As they're universal across them. I'll also be bolding the powers here, and adding scans to many existing abilities as you'll see later.

General Shinobi Abilities​


Supernatural Willpower (Elite shinobi have enough willpower to resist the passive effects of the Super Secret Ninja Scroll. Shinobi can still fight even when they're on fire), Extrasensory Perception (Shinobi can detect the presences of others, knowing their location, numbers, and even tell if they're evil or not), Stealth Mastery (All shinobi are trained in the art of stealth), Pseudo-Flight (All shinobi can push off the air with a jump, and can even dash while in mid air), Resistance to Madness Manipulation (Elite shinobi can resist the passive effects of the Super Secret Ninja Scroll, which turned multiple teams of lesser shinobi completely insane)

Hebijo Shinobi, such as Homura's Team and Miyabi's Team will have Resistance to Mind Manipulation (Hebijo students are immune to normal brainwashing done via hypnosis).

Burst | Versus | Deep Crimson

Burst characters are going to be the same rating they're currently are, which is 8-C+.

So there is no need to explain it in great detail.

However I do need to mention that in this key, Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura are both Low 7-C (2.4 KT). Via the destruction of Hebijo with their clash.

Before I move onto to their other keys, I need to explain why some other characters are scaling to Low 7-C as well. This will mainly focus on Daidōji and Rin.

Now Daidōji and Rin are seen as vastly superior to the shinobi students in almost all occasion. Daidōji is even stated to be stronger than all 5 Hanzō Academy girls put together in Burst Re:Newal. She is massively superior to them, the girls are usually afraid to even spar with her.

Going into the Senran Kagura Manga Daidōji "fights" Asuka and Homura and quite easily deals with them. Before she leaves, she tells both of them that if they want to entertain her they'll need power on par with the Super-Secret Ninja Scroll.

Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura are power drawn out by the Super-Secret Ninja Scroll and Engetsuka. The seventh blade Homura holds and is what she draws when becoming Crimson Homura. Daidōji even took noticed of it, and that it was interesting but worthless since she cannot draw it yet.

In order to only entertain her, they'll need to be Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura. The creator of Senran Kagura, Kenichiro Takaki, is also the writer/author for the manga. The manga itself is also just a retelling of the events in Burst with more details. Considering he is the one writing this story. Treating this as secondary canon should be considered fine. Daidōji statement is a reflection on how strong she actually is.

Daidōji should scale above Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura, as her line of fighting both of them at once would only entertain her. Another translation of this line, said that power would entertain her a little. Regardless, she is confident in fighting two people with the Scroll's power which is Low 7-C. This would scale to Rin who is usually shown as her equal, the two fight constantly and both have an even chance of beating the other.

Versus series take place 6 months after the events in Burst. Meaning the characters being much stronger wouldn't be a surprise, and they show it as well.

In Estival Versus, it's possible for all 5 Hanzo/Crimson Squad girls to fight and even defeat Daidōji/Rin. There are special missions in the game, where you can play as Daidōji/Rin against the students and beat them, or play as the students to defeat Daidōji/Rin. Both endings lead to the same cutscene, and even when Rin wins she comments that all of the girls are very strong. And beforehand she stated she was going fight with all of her strength.

Considering how we treat these events. This means the fight between them is a 50/50 chance of win or lose, and this also means they'd stand no chance in a 1v1 fight. As it takes all 5 of them, to just barely defeat Daidōji/Rin, and are exhausted afterwards even if they do win. I suggest downscaling to 8-A+ (550 Tons), as they are inferior and have no chance one on one. But all five of them together actually have a chance of beating them.

This affects all of the girls who have the Versus key. Also characters who only appear in Versus such as New Hebijo and Gessen.

This is simple, the students directly scale to Daidōji and Rin. Asuka and Homura are able to defeat them in battle. Homura is also able to defeat Rin in a 1v1, and the two fight together on multiple occasions in Deep Crimson. As the girls all basically fight each other and the Yōma Generals, they all scale to Low 7-C.

This game is the final game in the first timeline, and appears to be the girls at their strongest during the time I'm writing this.

But now to go onto to something bigger.

High 7-A+ scaling is now being considered. This rating comes from True Kagura. Kagura is a special existence, who's sole purpose is to slay Yōma. She is constantly reborn from something called the Reincarnation Sphere every 100 years. Her power is seen as immense, and she will continue to exist as long as Yōma exist.

When Kagura kills a certain number of Yōma, her body begins to crumble apart and she returns to the Reincarnation Sphere. However her returning to the Reincarnation Sphere has a side effect. The amount of energy in this process releases enough heat to wipe Kyoto off the map. This is why True Kagura is At least High 7-A, as this is just an side effect of her going back into the Sphere while her body is basically dying.

Current the profile says that Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura scaling to True Kagura is an outlier. In the end of Deep Crimson, in order to show Kagura that she doesn't need to hunt Yōma anymore and can live her life with Naraku. The two fought and defeated Kagura, as a way of showing her that they can defeat the Yōma for her.

Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura defeating True Kagura is not an outlier. As Deep Crimson is currently the last game in the first timeline, they have not fought weaker characters and lost like the page currently says. They've only ever fought True Kagura. And the statement of True Kagura holding back against them isn't something I've been able to find. I've only seen this mentioned here in versus boards and nowhere else.

As such Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura should be High 7-A via scaling to True Kagura.

Different from Kagura the person. The highest rank of shinobi in the series is called Kagura, this rank is likely named off Kagura herself. As the main purpose of shinobi who reach this rank is to slay Yōma. And there is direct statements that place Kagura rank shinobi as superior to Kagura's High 7-A feat.

During the events of Deep Crimson it's revealed that Dōgen, the antagonist from Burst, is trying to steal Kagura's power for himself.

Hanzō, a legendary shinobi who is strong enough to be a Kagura, says that Dōgen absorbing the power of Kagura from the Reincarnation Sphere, would give him power equal to a Hinin rank shinobi. Meaning that even with that High 7-A+ level of power, he still wouldn't be strong enough to be a Kagura.

The Kagura rank doesn't have any prejudice. Evil, good, or renegade shinobi are allowed to obtained the title. The only qualification for this title is power itself, being virtually invincible. The fact is that Dōgen with Kagura's power would only be Hinin rank is confirmation that to be a Kagura requires even stronger power.

Note: While it's possible for True Kagura's power to be greater, as they might not know how powerful her true strength is. The entire cast is aware that True Kagura going back into the Reincarnation Sphere will wipe Kyoto off the map, which is the High 7-A+ feat. And he was strong enough to be a Kagura in his prime, but choose not to.

He is aware of the kind of power Kagura can unleash, and knows the strength needed to be a Kagura. Hanzō clearly says that stealing that level of power would only be equal to a Hinin rank shinobi. This is a very clear statement that the power needed to wipe Kyoto off the map is inferior to the power needed to be a Kagura.

Both True Kagura and Kagura rank shinobi will upscale from this feat. As True Kagura's power wiping Kyoto off the map happens when her body is weak and crumbling away... Along with the fact it's just a side effect as well. And Kagura rank shinobi such as Prime Hanzō and Jasmine will scale above as well. Both as At least High 7-A+.

TL;DR:

The Burst students get split into three keys.

The Versus keys and Versus characters downscale to 8-A as 5 of them working together are capable of barely beating a Low 7-C character.

The Deep Crimson keys and characters scale to Low 7-C for being able to fight and win against Low 7-C characters.

Kagura Rank shinobi become High 7-A as they're stated to be stronger than a High 7-A feat.

Deep Crimson Ult. Asuka and Crimson Homura scaling to True Kagura is not an outlier anymore, as the reasoning for it being an outlier was faulty.

Sandbox 1, Sandbox 2, and Sandbox 3. Along with a sandbox to change the verse page. So you can see how all these changes look for some characters.
 
Last edited:
What Rusty said about intelligence ratings is correct. Let's permanently drop this pointless and lengthy discussion please. (Hagane and I have argued about it in two other threads as well.)

Should I ask for staff help with evaluating your last post, Rusty?
 
TheRustyOne said:
Alright, I'm going to post my big list. I'll need opinions to see if I'm missing anything, and once we're good we can inform staff to have a look at it.

I'll start with the power and ability section, basically a list of general abilities that all shinobi will get.

As they're universal across them. I'll also be bolding the powers here, and adding scans to many existing abilities as you'll see later.

General Shinobi Abilities​


Supernatural Willpower (Elite shinobi have enough willpower to resist the passive effects of the Super Secret Ninja Scroll. Shinobi can still fight even when they're on fire), Extrasensory Perception (Shinobi can detect the presences of others, knowing their location, numbers, and even tell if they're evil or not), Stealth Mastery (All shinobi are trained in the art of stealth), Pseudo-Flight (All shinobi can push off the air with a jump, and can even dash while in mid air), Resistance to Madness Manipulation (Elite shinobi can resist the passive effects of the Super Secret Ninja Scroll, which turned multiple teams of lesser shinobi completely insane)

Hebijo Shinobi, such as Homura's Team and Miyabi's Team will have Resistance to Mind Manipulation (Hebijo students are immune to normal brainwashing done via hypnosis).

Burst | Versus | Deep Crimson

Burst characters are going to be the same rating they're currently are, which is 8-C+.

So there is no need to explain it in great detail.

However I do need to mention that in this key, Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura are both Low 7-C (2.4 KT). Via the destruction of Hebijo with their clash.

Before I move onto to their other keys, I need to explain why some other characters are scaling to Low 7-C as well. This will mainly focus on Daidōji and Rin.

Now Daidōji and Rin are seen as vastly superior to the shinobi students in almost all occasion. Daidōji is even stated to be stronger than all 5 Hanzō Academy girls put together in Burst Re:Newal. She is massively superior to them, the girls are usually afraid to even spar with her.

Going into the Senran Kagura Manga Daidōji "fights" Asuka and Homura and quite easily deals with them. Before she leaves, she tells both of them that if they want to entertain her they'll need power on par with the Super-Secret Ninja Scroll.

Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura are power drawn out by the Super-Secret Ninja Scroll and Engetsuka. The seventh blade Homura holds and is what she draws when becoming Crimson Homura. Daidōji even took noticed of it, and that it was interesting but worthless since she cannot draw it yet.

In order to only entertain her, they'll need to be Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura. The creator of Senran Kagura, Kenichiro Takaki, is also the writer/author for the manga. The manga itself is also just a retelling of the events in Burst with more details. Considering he is the one writing this story. Treating this as secondary canon should be considered fine. Daidōji statement is a reflection on how strong she actually is.

Daidōji should scale above Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura, as her line of fighting both of them at once would only entertain her. Another translation of this line, said that power would entertain her a little. Regardless, she is confident in fighting two people with the Scroll's power which is Low 7-C. This would scale to Rin who is usually shown as her equal, the two fight constantly and both have an even chance of beating the other.

Versus series take place 6 months after the events in Burst. Meaning the characters being much stronger wouldn't be a surprise, and they show it as well.

In Estival Versus, it's possible for all 5 Hanzo/Crimson Squad girls to fight and even defeat Daidōji/Rin. There are special missions in the game, where you can play as Daidōji/Rin against the students and beat them, or play as the students to defeat Daidōji/Rin. Both endings lead to the same cutscene, and even when Rin wins she comments that all of the girls are very strong. And beforehand she stated she was going fight with all of her strength.

Considering how we treat these events. This means the fight between them is a 50/50 chance of win or lose, and this also means they'd stand no chance in a 1v1 fight. As it takes all 5 of them, to just barely defeat Daidōji/Rin, and are exhausted afterwards even if they do win. I suggest downscaling to 8-A+ (550 Tons), as they are inferior and have no chance one on one. But all five of them together actually have a chance of beating them.

This affects all of the girls who have the Versus key. Also characters who only appear in Versus such as New Hebijo and Gessen.

This is simple, the students directly scale to Daidōji and Rin. Asuka and Homura are able to defeat them in battle. Homura is also able to defeat Rin in a 1v1, and the two fight together on multiple occasions in Deep Crimson. As the girls all basically fight each other and the Yōma Generals, they all scale to Low 7-C.

This game is the final game in the first timeline, and appears to be the girls at their strongest during the time I'm writing this.

But now to go onto to something bigger.

High 7-A+ scaling is now being considered. This rating comes from True Kagura. Kagura is a special existence, who's sole purpose is to slay Yōma. She is constantly reborn from something called the Reincarnation Sphere every 100 years. Her power is seen as immense, and she will continue to exist as long as Yōma exist.

When Kagura kills a certain number of Yōma, her body begins to crumble apart and she returns to the Reincarnation Sphere. However her returning to the Reincarnation Sphere has a side effect. The amount of energy in this process releases enough heat to wipe Kyoto off the map. This is why True Kagura is At least High 7-A, as this is just an side effect of her going back into the Sphere while her body is basically dying.

Current the profile says that Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura scaling to True Kagura is an outlier. In the end of Deep Crimson, in order to show Kagura that she doesn't need to hunt Yōma anymore and can live her life with Naraku. The two fought and defeated Kagura, as a way of showing her that they can defeat the Yōma for her.

Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura defeating True Kagura is not an outlier. As Deep Crimson is currently the last game in the first timeline, they have not fought weaker characters and lost like the page currently says. They've only ever fought True Kagura. And the statement of True Kagura holding back against them isn't something I've been able to find. I've only seen this mentioned here in versus boards and nowhere else.

As such Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura should be High 7-A via scaling to True Kagura.

Different from Kagura the person. The highest rank of shinobi in the series is called Kagura, this rank is likely named off Kagura herself. As the main purpose of shinobi who reach this rank is to slay Yōma. And there is direct statements that place Kagura rank shinobi as superior to Kagura's High 7-A feat.

During the events of Deep Crimson it's revealed that Dōgen, the antagonist from Burst, is trying to steal Kagura's power for himself.

Hanzō, a legendary shinobi who is strong enough to be a Kagura, says that Dōgen absorbing the power of Kagura from the Reincarnation Sphere, would give him power equal to a Hinin rank shinobi. Meaning that even with that High 7-A+ level of power, he still wouldn't be strong enough to be a Kagura.

The Kagura rank doesn't have any prejudice. Evil, good, or renegade shinobi are allowed to obtained the title. The only qualification for this title is power itself, being virtually invincible. The fact is that Dōgen with Kagura's power would only be Hinin rank is confirmation that to be a Kagura requires even stronger power.

Note: While it's possible for True Kagura's power to be greater, as they might not know how powerful her true strength is. The entire cast is aware that True Kagura going back into the Reincarnation Sphere will wipe Kyoto off the map, which is the High 7-A+ feat. And he was strong enough to be a Kagura in his prime, but choose not to.

He is aware of the kind of power Kagura can unleash, and knows the strength needed to be a Kagura. Hanzō clearly says that stealing that level of power would only be equal to a Hinin rank shinobi. This is a very clear statement that the power needed to wipe Kyoto off the map is inferior to the power needed to be a Kagura.

Both True Kagura and Kagura rank shinobi will upscale from this feat. As True Kagura's power wiping Kyoto off the map happens when her body is weak and crumbling away... Along with the fact it's just a side effect as well. And Kagura rank shinobi such as Prime Hanzō and Jasmine will scale above as well. Both as At least High 7-A+.

TL;DR:

The Burst students get split into three keys.

The Versus keys and Versus characters downscale to 8-A as 5 of them working together are capable of barely beating a Low 7-C character.

The Deep Crimson keys and characters scale to Low 7-C for being able to fight and win against Low 7-C characters.

Kagura Rank shinobi become High 7-A as they're stated to be stronger than a High 7-A feat.

Deep Crimson Ult. Asuka and Crimson Homura scaling to True Kagura is not an outlier anymore, as the reasoning for it being an outlier was faulty.

Sandbox 1, Sandbox 2, and Sandbox 3. Along with a sandbox to change the verse page. So you can see how all these changes look for some characters.
Click to expand...
@Sir_Ovens @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate thIs please?
 
TheRustyOne said:
Alright, I'm going to post my big list. I'll need opinions to see if I'm missing anything, and once we're good we can inform staff to have a look at it.

I'll start with the power and ability section, basically a list of general abilities that all shinobi will get.

As they're universal across them. I'll also be bolding the powers here, and adding scans to many existing abilities as you'll see later.

General Shinobi Abilities​


Supernatural Willpower (Elite shinobi have enough willpower to resist the passive effects of the Super Secret Ninja Scroll. Shinobi can still fight even when they're on fire), Extrasensory Perception (Shinobi can detect the presences of others, knowing their location, numbers, and even tell if they're evil or not), Stealth Mastery (All shinobi are trained in the art of stealth), Pseudo-Flight (All shinobi can push off the air with a jump, and can even dash while in mid air), Resistance to Madness Manipulation (Elite shinobi can resist the passive effects of the Super Secret Ninja Scroll, which turned multiple teams of lesser shinobi completely insane)

Hebijo Shinobi, such as Homura's Team and Miyabi's Team will have Resistance to Mind Manipulation (Hebijo students are immune to normal brainwashing done via hypnosis).

Burst | Versus | Deep Crimson

Burst characters are going to be the same rating they're currently are, which is 8-C+.

So there is no need to explain it in great detail.

However I do need to mention that in this key, Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura are both Low 7-C (2.4 KT). Via the destruction of Hebijo with their clash.

Before I move onto to their other keys, I need to explain why some other characters are scaling to Low 7-C as well. This will mainly focus on Daidōji and Rin.

Now Daidōji and Rin are seen as vastly superior to the shinobi students in almost all occasion. Daidōji is even stated to be stronger than all 5 Hanzō Academy girls put together in Burst Re:Newal. She is massively superior to them, the girls are usually afraid to even spar with her.

Going into the Senran Kagura Manga Daidōji "fights" Asuka and Homura and quite easily deals with them. Before she leaves, she tells both of them that if they want to entertain her they'll need power on par with the Super-Secret Ninja Scroll.

Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura are power drawn out by the Super-Secret Ninja Scroll and Engetsuka. The seventh blade Homura holds and is what she draws when becoming Crimson Homura. Daidōji even took noticed of it, and that it was interesting but worthless since she cannot draw it yet.

In order to only entertain her, they'll need to be Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura. The creator of Senran Kagura, Kenichiro Takaki, is also the writer/author for the manga. The manga itself is also just a retelling of the events in Burst with more details. Considering he is the one writing this story. Treating this as secondary canon should be considered fine. Daidōji statement is a reflection on how strong she actually is.

Daidōji should scale above Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura, as her line of fighting both of them at once would only entertain her. Another translation of this line, said that power would entertain her a little. Regardless, she is confident in fighting two people with the Scroll's power which is Low 7-C. This would scale to Rin who is usually shown as her equal, the two fight constantly and both have an even chance of beating the other.

Versus series take place 6 months after the events in Burst. Meaning the characters being much stronger wouldn't be a surprise, and they show it as well.

In Estival Versus, it's possible for all 5 Hanzo/Crimson Squad girls to fight and even defeat Daidōji/Rin. There are special missions in the game, where you can play as Daidōji/Rin against the students and beat them, or play as the students to defeat Daidōji/Rin. Both endings lead to the same cutscene, and even when Rin wins she comments that all of the girls are very strong. And beforehand she stated she was going fight with all of her strength.

Considering how we treat these events. This means the fight between them is a 50/50 chance of win or lose, and this also means they'd stand no chance in a 1v1 fight. As it takes all 5 of them, to just barely defeat Daidōji/Rin, and are exhausted afterwards even if they do win. I suggest downscaling to 8-A+ (550 Tons), as they are inferior and have no chance one on one. But all five of them together actually have a chance of beating them.

This affects all of the girls who have the Versus key. Also characters who only appear in Versus such as New Hebijo and Gessen.

This is simple, the students directly scale to Daidōji and Rin. Asuka and Homura are able to defeat them in battle. Homura is also able to defeat Rin in a 1v1, and the two fight together on multiple occasions in Deep Crimson. As the girls all basically fight each other and the Yōma Generals, they all scale to Low 7-C.

This game is the final game in the first timeline, and appears to be the girls at their strongest during the time I'm writing this.

But now to go onto to something bigger.

High 7-A+ scaling is now being considered. This rating comes from True Kagura. Kagura is a special existence, who's sole purpose is to slay Yōma. She is constantly reborn from something called the Reincarnation Sphere every 100 years. Her power is seen as immense, and she will continue to exist as long as Yōma exist.

When Kagura kills a certain number of Yōma, her body begins to crumble apart and she returns to the Reincarnation Sphere. However her returning to the Reincarnation Sphere has a side effect. The amount of energy in this process releases enough heat to wipe Kyoto off the map. This is why True Kagura is At least High 7-A, as this is just an side effect of her going back into the Sphere while her body is basically dying.

Current the profile says that Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura scaling to True Kagura is an outlier. In the end of Deep Crimson, in order to show Kagura that she doesn't need to hunt Yōma anymore and can live her life with Naraku. The two fought and defeated Kagura, as a way of showing her that they can defeat the Yōma for her.

Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura defeating True Kagura is not an outlier. As Deep Crimson is currently the last game in the first timeline, they have not fought weaker characters and lost like the page currently says. They've only ever fought True Kagura. And the statement of True Kagura holding back against them isn't something I've been able to find. I've only seen this mentioned here in versus boards and nowhere else.

As such Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura should be High 7-A via scaling to True Kagura.

Different from Kagura the person. The highest rank of shinobi in the series is called Kagura, this rank is likely named off Kagura herself. As the main purpose of shinobi who reach this rank is to slay Yōma. And there is direct statements that place Kagura rank shinobi as superior to Kagura's High 7-A feat.

During the events of Deep Crimson it's revealed that Dōgen, the antagonist from Burst, is trying to steal Kagura's power for himself.

Hanzō, a legendary shinobi who is strong enough to be a Kagura, says that Dōgen absorbing the power of Kagura from the Reincarnation Sphere, would give him power equal to a Hinin rank shinobi. Meaning that even with that High 7-A+ level of power, he still wouldn't be strong enough to be a Kagura.

The Kagura rank doesn't have any prejudice. Evil, good, or renegade shinobi are allowed to obtained the title. The only qualification for this title is power itself, being virtually invincible. The fact is that Dōgen with Kagura's power would only be Hinin rank is confirmation that to be a Kagura requires even stronger power.

Note: While it's possible for True Kagura's power to be greater, as they might not know how powerful her true strength is. The entire cast is aware that True Kagura going back into the Reincarnation Sphere will wipe Kyoto off the map, which is the High 7-A+ feat. And he was strong enough to be a Kagura in his prime, but choose not to.

He is aware of the kind of power Kagura can unleash, and knows the strength needed to be a Kagura. Hanzō clearly says that stealing that level of power would only be equal to a Hinin rank shinobi. This is a very clear statement that the power needed to wipe Kyoto off the map is inferior to the power needed to be a Kagura.

Both True Kagura and Kagura rank shinobi will upscale from this feat. As True Kagura's power wiping Kyoto off the map happens when her body is weak and crumbling away... Along with the fact it's just a side effect as well. And Kagura rank shinobi such as Prime Hanzō and Jasmine will scale above as well. Both as At least High 7-A+.

TL;DR:

The Burst students get split into three keys.

The Versus keys and Versus characters downscale to 8-A as 5 of them working together are capable of barely beating a Low 7-C character.

The Deep Crimson keys and characters scale to Low 7-C for being able to fight and win against Low 7-C characters.

Kagura Rank shinobi become High 7-A as they're stated to be stronger than a High 7-A feat.

Deep Crimson Ult. Asuka and Crimson Homura scaling to True Kagura is not an outlier anymore, as the reasoning for it being an outlier was faulty.

Sandbox 1, Sandbox 2, and Sandbox 3. Along with a sandbox to change the verse page. So you can see how all these changes look for some characters.
Click to expand...
Don't know the series at all but the additions/changes seem fine to me.
 
@LordGriffin1000: Thank you for your time.

@Hagane_no_Saiyajin: That is kind of derailing as that doesn't involve the Senran Kagura profiles or their stats. Also I have no idea how I should give any kind of opinion on that, as I do not know anything about the character in question. I have a feeling you'd know it better than myself.
 
We don't allow scaling speed in such a manner, as that'd be calc stacking. The two calc group members in the comments say as much.

Same reason we don't get speed from an AP. Say I do a calc of someone running into a wall and destroys it. I'll calc how much energy he needed to destroy, which is fine. But I cannot than use his canon weight, to also find his speed as well. Since in real life he'd need a certain amount of speed to produce that energy.

We don't allow this kind of thing since it leads to massively inflated results, and fiction doesn't usually follow this line of thinking. Note: The exception for this is the fiction itself actually mentions Kinetic Energy. Case in point Fire Force even puts the KE formula in the manga, to show how their attacks work.

So using KE there is fine. I can't think of an opposite example.

Edit: I really don't want to have a big discussion or something until after we get staff approval on the above. It might causes problems if we keep talking back and forth.
 
Will Dogen get a profile? I personally would place him at "Unknown, at least Low 7-C with Yoma transformation, at least Low 7-C with puppetry"
 
What Griffin and Ovens accepted can probably be applied. Thank you for helping out.
 
I was just trying to calculate the AP needed to destroy the blade of a bokken, when I came upon this article that made me question if the value for pulverization is correct. The values are in psi, but it makes mention of a modulus of elasticity.

It defines it as a measure of the stiffness of a body. From what I can infer, the compression values for pulverization we use are the modulus of rupture, but I'm just wonder if that's really correct or not and we should actually be using the combined values of the modulus of elasticity and rupture for pulverization
 
What?

Apologies I have literally no idea what any of the means. I quit being a calc group member for a reason, I'm not that smart.
 
How am I suppose to understand what modulus of elasticity or rupture even means? You think I'm someone who is actually smart? This stuff goes in one ear and out the other ear. I don't know what you expect from me, but I can't comment of stuff that is out of my depth.
 
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