Senna's Feat

[AppleLord]

Additionally, the migration of souls goes from WotL into Dangai into SS, so technically you can just "fly" from one to another.

Aka they're the same spacetime.

This is incorrect, Arc. Souls get stuck on Earth because they can’t fly to Soul Society and become Hollows if a Shinigami doesn’t send their soul through a portal to the Dangai with a Hell butterfly.

 

[Cyberblader90]

its debatable. Ichibei implies all the souls from grimjow would be added to the cycle, thus affecting all the realms, if he died

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah I misspoke there.

However, regardless of the fact, we are not here to discuss the already accepted cosmology. If you personally take issue with SS and WotL being the same spacetime after re-examining the series, make a cosmology thread about it. End of discussion. DT all your current problems involve assuming the Bleach cosmology functions differently than how we currently accept it to function.

I also want your opinion on this https://vsbattles.com/threads/sennas-feat.121342/post-4000036

 

[Reio35]

This is incorrect, Arc. Souls get stuck on Earth because they can’t fly to Soul Society and become Hollows if a Shinigami doesn’t send their soul through a portal to the Dangai with a Hell butterfly.

They can actually the can literally fly from ss or the wol and form their own dimensions in the garganata

 

[AppleLord]

its debatable. Ichibei implies all the souls from grimjow would be added to the cycle, thus affecting all the realms, if he died

The zanpakutou doesn’t kill the Hollows, it cleanses their souls and tranports the human souls into the Soul Society. Or Soul Cycle process if that Hollow was killed in Soul Society.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Guys you're speaking on irrelevant points. And just cluttering the thread. This isn't Bleach cosmology thread 2.0, it's a thread for a calc using what we currently accept on site.

 

[AppleLord]

They can actually the can literally fly from ss or the wol and form their own dimensions in the garganata

Garganta is considered a portal. But is also the vast emptiness or void were all the dimensions/universes exist in. That’s a totally different concept.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah I misspoke there.

However, regardless of the fact, we are not here to discuss the already accepted cosmology. If you personally take issue with SS and WotL being the same spacetime after re-examining the series, make a cosmology thread about it. End of discussion. DT all your current problems involve assuming the Bleach cosmology functions differently than how we currently accept it to function.

I also want your opinion on this https://vsbattles.com/threads/sennas-feat.121342/post-4000036

Apparently I'm not allowed to make threads without them getting derailed, so I'm bumping this post. Any conversation about speculating on Bleach cosmology that goes against the current accepted cosmology needs to stop, it's blatant derailing. All that needs to happen is the calc be evaluated with everything we currently accept regarding Bleach.

And as far as I have seen, the only issues rn that DT is bringing up come from stuff we don't actually accept with the Bleach cosmology. DT idk if this helps your confusion but we see characters running through the Dangai all the time just as if they were running around on Earth, meaning regular gravity exists, else they'd be floating around which isn't the case. So, I'd appreciate if we could move on and pick between the calc or the movie statements/lore, as the above link lays out in more detail.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So, I reread through yesterday's conversation in thread, and today we quite literally repeated the same dance of incorrectly asserting SS and WotL are separate spacetimes, despite WotL and SS being accepted as the same spacetime. There is no need to stall a thread that has near unanimous support by repeating the same incorrect information over the span of multiple days.

So, yeah we are done with that conversation, we aren't going to keep repeating stuff that is A) not relevant to the discussion because this isn't a cosmology thread and B) contradicted by what is accepted anyways.

Which leaves us with the last thing that needs to be resolved before this thread can be concluded.
Movie statement/lore stating that all the energy of the Blanks is capable of slamming and destroying both dimensions or my calc.

Currently, 1 CGM (Mitch) and 1 regular staff (KT) are in favor of using the movie statement over the calc.

 

[Reio35]

This is kinda dragging tbh i think the changes should be applied already

 

[DontTalkDT]

Lemme dumb down the setting of MoN so we can clear up the confusion.

While the inside of the Dangai is not literally outer space, and the realms aren't planets, you can think of the two realms being pulled together in the Dangai, as two planets being pulled together in outer space. It is as simple as that.

I ain't just gonna take your word for that. Although I personally also really don't care about those rankings.

So let me just drop my PoV for all scenarios here and then people who know and care can either take it or ignore it:

If they are part of the same space that means they are part of the same universe. If they are part of the same universe, merely containing stars and galaxies wouldn't qualify them for being universe sized. A galaxy cluster also contains those things and isn't universe-sized either. We only assume so for dimensions that are spatially separated from the normal universe, instead of just being a small part of it. So the size should probably be rechecked in that case.
Aside from that, in that case, all interdimensional rankings would need to be removed.
On the upside, the calculation method in and of itself would be fine then.

If they are not part of the same space then normal gravity, which can only "travel" through 3 spatial dimensions, couldn't pull them together. That's simply since by travelling in the regular 3 directions we have the gravity of Earth wouldn't be allowed to reach Soul Society. Instead you would need a gravity that can go in more directions, like going through an extra direction offered by Dangai. Four directions would mean we aren't dealing with normal gravity anymore, though. The inverse square law, which our normal gravity obeys since it spreads through 3 directions/dimensions, wouldn't hold for something that goes through 4. What this means is that calcing this feat like that wouldn't work.

Now there's also the question of whether moving universes, or universe-sized dimensions, is a universal feat. That is probably somewhat case by case. Generally, if you can launch something so hard that it would destroy the universe you should be good to go. In this case, it seems to be more opposing a (potentially increasing) force that is pulling them together and cancelling that out doesn't transfer universe destroying amount of energies on the dimensions and the top-tiers seem to scale above the transferred energies more so than the total, in my understanding.
Sooooo idk.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Thanks for your comment.

Being that SS and WotL are part of the same spacetime, the calc has seemingly been okayed by all the CGM.

Regarding, this:

if you can launch something so hard that it would destroy the universe you should be good to go.

What was launching the realms hard enough to destroy one if not both were the Blanks. Senna's explosion is a release of all the Blanks energy. So they are one in the same.

The realm destroying launch energy = Senna's explosion energy.

Unless I'm misinterpreting DT here, if the Blanks in this case possess the energy to launch the realms so hard it would destroy one if not both of them, then it's fine to rate them as universal. Which is precisely the case here.

Again, unless I misinterpreted DT, that means we have it being a universal rating okayed by DT, Mitch, and KT.

 

[KingTempest]

Thanks for your comment.

Being that SS and WotL are part of the same spacetime, the calc has seemingly been okayed by all the CGM.

Regarding, this:

What was launching the realms hard enough to destroy one if not both were the Blanks. Senna's explosion is a release of all the Blanks energy. So they are one in the same.

The realm destroying launch energy = Senna's explosion energy.

Unless I'm misinterpreting DT here, if the Blanks in this case possess the energy to launch the realms so hard it would destroy one if not both of them, then it's fine to rate them as universal. Which is precisely the case here.

Again, unless I misinterpreted DT, that means we have it being a universal rating okayed by DT, Mitch, and KT.

Yee

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Wait, so is this 3-C or 3-A? I'm confused lmao

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Wait, so is this 3-C or 3-A? I'm confused lmao

3-A potentially based on what DT said.

The movie says that the Blanks can slam SS and WotL hard enough to destroy them both. DT says that if something can slam it that hard to destroy it then it's good to fully scale. Meaning the Blanks have realm destroying energy, which the explosion scales to because it is "all of the Blanks' energy". Mitch and Tempest agree with that sentiment.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

3-A potentially based on what DT said.

The movie says that the Blanks can slam SS and WotL hard enough to destroy them both. DT says that if something can slam it that hard to destroy it then it's good to fully scale. Meaning the Blanks has realm destroying energy, which the explosion scales to because it is "all of the Blanks' energy". Mitch and Tempest agree with that sentiment.

Oh shit that makes sense. I'm fine with 3-A as well

 

[Nierre]

What's needed now? DT said that the calc itself is fine, right?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What's needed now? DT said that the calc itself is fine, right?

3-A potentially based on what DT said.

The movie says that the Blanks can slam SS and WotL hard enough to destroy them both. DT says that if something can slam it that hard to destroy it then it's good to fully scale. Meaning the Blanks have realm destroying energy, which the explosion scales to because it is "all of the Blanks' energy". Mitch and Tempest agree with that sentiment.

Basically, I just want to make sure this is okay. Because the movie direct statement would take priority over my calc. But at this point, it's just a matter of choosing between the two.

 

[Damage3245]

The movie says that the Blanks can slam SS and WotL hard enough to destroy them both. DT says that if something can slam it that hard to destroy it then it's good to fully scale.

Meaning the Blanks have realm destroying energy

This doesn't sound quite right to me.

Gravity is a weak force but if I pushed a boulder off of a cliff then gravity will lead to that boulder getting so much momentum over time that it would crush a person underneath it. If you convert that gravity the pulls a boulder downwards into explosive force, then would the energy of the gravity be equal to the kinetic energy of the boulder landing on the person? @DontTalkDT?

 

[Antvasima]

So was Yhwach compressing the two realities into one via raw power or just cancelling out some mechanism that kept them separate via a chain reaction?

 

[Naeblis495]

So was Yhwach compressing the two realities into one via raw power or just cancelling out some mechanism that kept them separate via a chain reaction?

Well, Yhwach was doing more than affecting the Living World and the Soul Society but that's beside the point .

It was Quite litterally stated that it was his own power doing so . His massive black energy/goo was already starting to to crush the Soul Society manually as the statement was said.

 

[YukaSama4]

Yhwach is irrelevant to this thread guys

Edit : Ant, the feat in the OP was done by Senna not by Yhwach

 

[Naeblis495]

Yhwach is irrelevant to this thread guys

Also true .

 

[Torsin]

So was Yhwach compressing the two realities into one via raw power or just cancelling out some mechanism that kept them separate via a chain reaction?

As of now whats accepted is the latter i.e, Yhwach was going to destroy the dangai ( boundary between the realms) via raw power which led to the chain reaction of all the realms/universes merging.

 

[KLOL506]

So the calc itself is fine for use but do we interpret it as a 3-C feat or as a 3-A feat? 3-A requires in excess of 2.9E+92 joules, but this feat is around the 3.2E+68 joule mark, which is difference of 9.0625E+23.

EDIT: NVM I'm an idiot.

 

[YukaSama4]

So the calc itself is fine for use but do we interpret it as a 3-C feat or as a 3-A feat? 3-A requires in excess of 2.9E+92 joules, but this feat is around the 3.2E+68 joule mark, which is difference of 9.0625E+23.

Or do we just use inverse square law to determine how big an explosion would have to be to envelop both the universes from their point of impact which would be the epicenter?

No Arc is saying that there are many literal statements in the movie that say one dimension is gonna get destroyed if we are lucky and the world will be destroyed...itc so he is saying that should we just take those statements and scale to them without any calcs which will give 3-A or should we apply the calc and forget about statements which is 3-C

 

[KLOL506]

No Arc is saying that there are many literal statements in the movie that says one dimension is gonna get destroyed if we were lucky and the world will be destroyed...itc so he is saying that should we just take those statements and scale to them without any calcs or should we apply the calc and forget about statements

Aight.

BTW ignore the second paragraph I wrote. That was me being an idiot.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

If they are not part of the same space then normal gravity, which can only "travel" through 3 spatial dimensions, couldn't pull them together. That's simply since by travelling in the regular 3 directions we have the gravity of Earth wouldn't be allowed to reach Soul Society. Instead you would need a gravity that can go in more directions, like going through an extra direction offered by Dangai. Four directions would mean we aren't dealing with normal gravity anymore, though. The inverse square law, which our normal gravity obeys since it spreads through 3 directions/dimensions, wouldn't hold for something that goes through 4. What this means is that calcing this feat like that wouldn't work.

I will ask if it will be useful to me in the future... how would it be calculated if that were the case?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. My apologies.

Can somebody summarise what Senna did then please? Also, I don't remember that character.

 

[Damage3245]

Jesus Christ this thread is still going

Nobody wants to come to this thread to see what new response has been made just to see you gripe and complain about how long it is taking.

Any future posts like this will get deleted to stop the thread from being clogged up.

 

[YukaSama4]

Can somebody summarise what Senna did then please?

• The energy of the Blanks, which are souls without memory, (what the Kyogoku is made of) were what was pulling the universal dimensions together with enough energy to destroy at least one if not both realms.
• They did this via contracting the Kyogoku, creating a force pulling the dimensions together into a collision. Said force is strong enough to destroy at least one dimension if they’re lucky, but will more than likely slam the dimensions together with energy to destroy both.
• Senna’s explosion is her releasing all of the Blanks’ energy at once. The same energy that can destroy one if not two universal dimension by slamming them into each other.

I think this is a summary of what happened in the movie.

Also, I don't remember that character.

She is from Memories of nobody movie the first bleach movie (yeah it's an amazing one). Many people think that she is Abarai Ichika, the daughter of Rukia and Renji but from another timeline or something like that IIRC.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the summary.

Do you know for certain that the movie is canon, and if so, which characters scale to Senna and why?

 

[Antvasima]

Also, no derailing personal attacks or accusations please.

 

[Damage3245]

I’m sorry man, but after you post a comment that you agree changes can be applied if there’s not issues, then you post a comment you think will stop the changes from going through that gets completely debunked and don’t try and argue it.. then you post another comment after DT pretty much ok’d the feat and you’re again trying to debunk it, I just wanna know, did you ever truly agree with this? Or is it because other staff members do and you went with the flow? This is just an honest question

Wow, it's almost like new things come up that I didn't think about earlier at the beginning of the thread.

Are you objecting to me posting comments here, trying to get clarification and exploring potential issues?

 

[Tyri456]

@Antvasima as per currently accepted, Yhwach is capable to destroys the boundaries, while senna explosion wasn’t able to do that. And Senna explosion was strong enough to permanently stop the collision of the universes and put them back to their original place. This is what is accepted as per last thread, in Yhwach’s profile.

Senna explosion is currently rated at 3C with the new radius suggested by DT. So Yhwach is at very minimum a lot stronger than what Senna did, to actually accomplish his feat of total destruction of the worlds.

 

[Antvasima]

Damage, I deleted his comments. It is best to ignore him and focus on the main discussion.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Do you know for certain that the movie is canon, and if so, which characters scale to Senna and why?

Yeah Kubo referenced the movie in the canon of the manga during the TYBW, and it perfectly fits in the timeline.

Only the God Tiers scale. (SK Yhwach, Aizen, Ichigo)

 

[Antvasima]

@Antvasima as per currently accepted, Yhwach is capable to destroys the boundaries, while senna explosion wasn’t able to do that. And Senna explosion was strong enough to permanently stop the collision of the universes and put them back to their original place. This is what is accepted as per last thread, in Yhwach’s profile.

Senna explosion is currently rated at 3C with the new radius suggested by DT. So Yhwach is at very minimum a lot stronger than what Senna did, to actually accomplish his feat of total destruction of the worlds.

Okay. How do you know that Senna was incapable of performing Yhwach's feat? Was this spelled out somewhere?

 

[YukaSama4]

Do you know for certain that the movie is canon, and if so, which characters scale to Senna and why?

It's canon because in the manga it was mentioned once in the notes that Kubo usually put at the end of chapters, he wrote: "for more information about souls watch the first movie" or something like that if I'm not mistaken

The God tiers will scale to the feat because they already scale above the destruction of Dangai, Senna’s explosions didn't destroy the dangai.

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah Kubo referenced the movie in the canon of the manga during the TYBW, and it perfectly fits in the timeline.

Only the God Tiers scale. (SK Yhwach, Aizen, Ichigo)

Okay.