Senna's Feat

[Arc7Kuroi]

So, I was rewatching the movie just to make sure everything is valid and checks out and figured I’d actually bring a few things to everyone’s attention.

• The energy of the Blanks, which are souls without memory, (what the Kyogoku is made of) were what was pulling the universal dimensions together with enough energy to destroy at least one if not both realms.
• They did this via contracting the Kyogoku, creating a force pulling the dimensions together into a collision. Said force is strong enough to destroy at least one dimension if they’re lucky, but will more than likely slam the dimensions together with energy to destroy both.
• Senna’s explosion is her releasing all of the Blanks’ energy at once. The same energy that can destroy one if not two universal dimension by slamming them into each other.

What does this mean? All the energy that the colliding dimensions possessed, the energy that could destroy both dimensions, is the same energy released by Senna’s explosion.

Before someone says “well why didn’t it destroy the dimensions then?” Explosions are weaker as you move away from the center of the blast, so the fact Senna’s explosion wasn’t centered on the dimensions explains that away. For example, destroying the sun from the earth is 4-B, and that’s found by saying the explosion has the energy to destroy the Sun at 1 AU and then using the inverse square law. So, while Cell’s solar system busting attack is 4-B at the center of the explosion, it’s only 4-C (or whatever destroying our Sun is in joules) at 1 AU away.

Whether or not that’s quantified by my calc or the multi-dimension busting statements, I don’t care, either is fine, CGM can discuss which is better/safer/more accurate. However, the notion this wouldn’t scale to AP is blatantly wrong in this context, and I wanted to make sure that was 100% clear to avoid any confusion for people actually reading through the thread.

 

[KazuiK]

Wouldn't the collision of both dimensions generate the same energy it needs to prevent them from colliding? I didn't really understand what is being discussed here.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Whether or not that’s quantified by my calc or the multi-dimension busting statements, I don’t care, either is fine, CGM can discuss which is better/safer/more accurate.

 

[KingTempest]

So, I was rewatching the movie just to make sure everything is valid and checks out and figured I’d actually bring a few things to everyone’s attention.

• The energy of the Blanks, which are souls without memory, (what the Kyogoku is made of) were what was pulling the universal dimensions together with enough energy to destroy at least one if not both realms.
• They did this via contracting the Kyogoku, creating a force pulling the dimensions together into a collision. Said force is strong enough to destroy at least one dimension if they’re lucky, but will more than likely slam the dimensions together with energy to destroy both.
• Senna’s explosion is her releasing all of the Blanks’ energy at once. The same energy that can destroy one if not two universal dimension by slamming them into each other.

What does this mean? All the energy that the colliding dimensions possessed, the energy that could destroy both dimensions, is the same energy released by Senna’s explosion.

Before someone says “well why didn’t it destroy the dimensions then?” Explosions are weaker as you move away from the center of the blast, so the fact Senna’s explosion wasn’t centered on the dimensions explains that away. For example, destroying the sun from the earth is 4-B, and that’s found by saying the explosion has the energy to destroy the Sun at 1 AU and then using the inverse square law. So, while Cell’s solar system busting attack is 4-B at the center of the explosion, it’s only 4-C (or whatever destroying our Sun is in joules) at 1 AU away.

Whether or not that’s quantified by my calc or the multi-dimension busting statements, I don’t care, either is fine, CGM can discuss which is better/safer/more accurate. However, the notion this wouldn’t scale to AP is blatantly wrong in this context, and I wanted to make sure that was 100% clear to avoid any question for people actually reading through the thread.

Makes sense to me

 

[Reio35]

Wouldn't the collision of both dimensions generate the same energy it needs to prevent them from colliding? I didn't really understand what is being discussed here.

Yes the calc is actually universal as it's prevent the collision of two universes which would result in universal destruction. But im okay with the low ball calc

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

If the collision would have destroyed at least one of the dimensions, wouldn't that be universal?

I mean that's pretty blatant 3-A to Low 2-C considering we consider the dimensions to be infinite in the last God Tier CRT IIRC

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

considering we consider the dimensions to be infinite in the last God Tier CRT IIRC

We only consider the dimensions to be finite universal, aka just 3-A to Low 2-C like you said.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Listen, I mean the fact is this, this is a blatant 3-A to Low 2-C feat overall, it flat out says the worlds will collide and be destroyed, there's nothing vague about that at all, that's clearly a universal feat, and frankly the Bleach God Tiers should scale to it, we've been dancing around universal Bleach for so long, but honestly the more I look at the evidence, the more it looks valid to me

So I support the feat being 3-A to Low 2-C and just say let the God Tiers scale to it, this topic been beaten to death at this point and I've come around to Arc's points

 

[Zackra1799]

If the wiki accepts that these are universes then I don't see why it shouldn't be 3-A, neutral on low 2-C as unless its stated to destroy all of spacetime in its entirety then its safer to assume just the matter is destroyed.

 

[KLOL506]

Listen, I mean the fact is this, this is a blatant 3-A to Low 2-C feat overall, it flat out says the worlds will collide and be destroyed, there's nothing vague about that at all, that's clearly a universal feat, and frankly the Bleach God Tiers should scale to it, we've been dancing around universal Bleach for so long, but honestly the more I look at the evidence, the more it looks valid to me

So I support the feat being 3-A to Low 2-C and just say let the God Tiers scale to it, this topic been beaten to death at this point and I've come around to Arc's points

Wasn't the collision KE itself calc'd to be 3-C to 3-B? That's waaaaay below 3-A or even Low 2-C

 

[KazuiK]

We only consider the dimensions to be finite universal, aka just 3-A to Low 2-C like you said.

Is Muken not being considered here?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Wasn't the collision KE itself calc'd to be 3-B? That's waaaaay below 3-A or even Low 2-C

No my calc is GPE and it's 3-C.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Is Muken not being considered here?

Muken is not accepted infinite.

 

[KLOL506]

No my calc is GPE and it's 3-C.

yeah that's what I meant, my bad

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Wasn't the collision KE itself calc'd to be 3-C to 3-B? That's waaaaay below 3-A or even Low 2-C

I mean yeah, but if the story is saying the entirety of the dimensions would be destroyed by the collision, then using the destruction value of destroying said entire universe should be used, not the calc above

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

yeah that's what I meant, my bad

Hence why I said it's up to CGM to determine which is more accurate, the lore and statements of the movie or the low-balled GPE calc. I support both, but I'm neutral on choosing which one.

Mitch is for using the movie lore/statements, which heavily imply, if not flat out state, it's universal.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Just to reiterate again, generally speaking, stopping a collision of universes doesn’t scale your power to the destruction of the collision.

Only thing scalable is the movement of the universes themselves (which can be quantified as something, but not universe level)

 

[SilentBob34]

Would the Dangai have been destroyed if the collision happened?

if the Dangai did survive the collision, Yhwach was going to destroy it right?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Would the Dangai have been destroyed if the collision happened?

if the Dangai did survive the collision, Yhwach was going to destroy it right?

Yes that is our current scaling. Dangai durability > Senna's explosion

Just to reiterate again, generally speaking, stopping a collision of universes doesn’t scale your power to the destruction of the collision.

Only thing scalable is the movement of the universes themselves (which can be quantified as something, but not universe level)

Generally speaking, in most cases, yes. However, for Bleach the Blanks (the energy source of Senna's explosion) were also causing the dimensions to collide with an energy that would destroy one if not both.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Can be calced via Kinetic energy

Just to reiterate again, generally speaking, stopping a collision of universes doesn’t scale your power to the destruction of the collision.

Only thing scalable is the movement of the universes themselves (which can be quantified as something, but not universe level)

^

 

[KazuiK]

So, I was rewatching the movie just to make sure everything is valid and checks out and figured I’d actually bring a few things to everyone’s attention.

• The energy of the Blanks, which are souls without memory, (what the Kyogoku is made of) were what was pulling the universal dimensions together with enough energy to destroy at least one if not both realms.
• They did this via contracting the Kyogoku, creating a force pulling the dimensions together into a collision. Said force is strong enough to destroy at least one dimension if they’re lucky, but will more than likely slam the dimensions together with energy to destroy both.
• Senna’s explosion is her releasing all of the Blanks’ energy at once. The same energy that can destroy one if not two universal dimension by slamming them into each other.

What does this mean? All the energy that the colliding dimensions possessed, the energy that could destroy both dimensions, is the same energy released by Senna’s explosion.

Before someone says “well why didn’t it destroy the dimensions then?” Explosions are weaker as you move away from the center of the blast, so the fact Senna’s explosion wasn’t centered on the dimensions explains that away. For example, destroying the sun from the earth is 4-B, and that’s found by saying the explosion has the energy to destroy the Sun at 1 AU and then using the inverse square law. So, while Cell’s solar system busting attack is 4-B at the center of the explosion, it’s only 4-C (or whatever destroying our Sun is in joules) at 1 AU away.

Whether or not that’s quantified by my calc or the multi-dimension busting statements, I don’t care, either is fine, CGM can discuss which is better/safer/more accurate. However, the notion this wouldn’t scale to AP is blatantly wrong in this context, and I wanted to make sure that was 100% clear to avoid any confusion for people actually reading through the thread.

But according to what Arc showed, the energy to prevent them from colliding is the same energy that allows them to destroy both

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

But according to what Arc showed, the energy to prevent them from colliding is the same energy that allows them to destroy both

To repeat what I also said, it is up to the CGM to decide which is better the movie lore/statements or my GPE lowball calc. So, let's leave it for them and just wait, not cluttering the thread.

 

[SilentBob34]

At @Arc, sorry I meant if the 2 universes did end up colliding and being destroyed would the Dangai have survived that or was it gonna be destroyed too?

 

[Urshani]

wait, if this gets upgraded, would Ichigo be 3-A/Low 2-C?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yes that is our current scaling. Dangai durability > Senna's explosion

This is your answer, Silent.

Guys cmon what happened to waiting for the CGM to decide on what end is best. Stop bombarding with questions that aren't relevant to the calc. It's aggravating. If you have unrelated questions ping me in the general thread.

 

[KazuiK]

To repeat what I also said, it is up to the CGM to decide which is better the movie lore/statements or my GPE lowball calc. So, let's leave it for them and just wait, not cluttering the thread.

It wasn't my intention though. I was just trying to correct what the kukui said.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Kukui didn't say anything in need of correction, he made a general statement, for moving feats in general.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Let me bump the relevant posts as of late for CGM and staff to comment on, meanwhile the rest of us can wait and not clutter the thread.

So, I was rewatching the movie just to make sure everything is valid and checks out and figured I’d actually bring a few things to everyone’s attention.

• The energy of the Blanks, which are souls without memory, (what the Kyogoku is made of) were what was pulling the universal dimensions together with enough energy to destroy at least one if not both realms.
• They did this via contracting the Kyogoku, creating a force pulling the dimensions together into a collision. Said force is strong enough to destroy at least one dimension if they’re lucky, but will more than likely slam the dimensions together with energy to destroy both.
• Senna’s explosion is her releasing all of the Blanks’ energy at once. The same energy that can destroy one if not two universal dimension by slamming them into each other.

What does this mean? All the energy that the colliding dimensions possessed, the energy that could destroy both dimensions, is the same energy released by Senna’s explosion.

Before someone says “well why didn’t it destroy the dimensions then?” Explosions are weaker as you move away from the center of the blast, so the fact Senna’s explosion wasn’t centered on the dimensions explains that away. For example, destroying the sun from the earth is 4-B, and that’s found by saying the explosion has the energy to destroy the Sun at 1 AU and then using the inverse square law. So, while Cell’s solar system busting attack is 4-B at the center of the explosion, it’s only 4-C (or whatever destroying our Sun is in joules) at 1 AU away.

Whether or not that’s quantified by my calc or the multi-dimension busting statements, I don’t care, either is fine, CGM can discuss which is better/safer/more accurate. However, the notion this wouldn’t scale to AP is blatantly wrong in this context, and I wanted to make sure that was 100% clear to avoid any confusion for people actually reading through the thread.

I implore the staff and CGM to thoroughly analyze this post and determine what is the most accurate way of determining Senna's explosion's potency: her energy being able to slam dimensions together and destroy them vs the GPE lowball calc.

Staff comments on it so far:

Makes sense to me

Listen, I mean the fact is this, this is a blatant 3-A to Low 2-C feat overall, it flat out says the worlds will collide and be destroyed, there's nothing vague about that at all, that's clearly a universal feat, and frankly the Bleach God Tiers should scale to it, we've been dancing around universal Bleach for so long, but honestly the more I look at the evidence, the more it looks valid to me

So I support the feat being 3-A to Low 2-C and just say let the God Tiers scale to it, this topic been beaten to death at this point and I've come around to Arc's points

I mean yeah, but if the story is saying the entirety of the dimensions would be destroyed by the collision, then using the destruction value of destroying said entire universe should be used, not the calc above

 

[SomebodyData]

Before I comment, I want to know why there was a wait for me? Sorry, I just don't really remember participating in Bleach threads lately outside of my first or so years here; so I'm guessing it has to do with something else.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ant just wants as many staff to comment just to guarantee the best ratings for Bleach we can.

 

[SomebodyData]

Alrighty, I'll read through the thread and give my response tonight or in the morning (most likely the latter, giving there are 350 responses).

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Appreciate it!

 

[Urshani]

3-A/Low 2-C Bleach again? Huh.
That means I would be able to do Ichigo vs Yu (swordmen)

 

[SomebodyData]

Since Ant tagged me, I guess the one thing I will say is that when it comes to "spheres represent X so that they are Y" (like what seems to be the case with Bleach's red spheres seemingly representing the universes of the verse), that is a gray area that I think should be discussed on a case by case basis. As I vaguely recall, Yu-Gi-Oh! had this exact kind of problem recently with @SomebodyData and @Zencha9 debating this in that staff thread. With the world of darkness having a literal earth as its representation despite being called a universe and it brought up a whole talk on the size of the realm and the translations behind the subs.

Wanted to address this comment before going to sleep:

If it's just representative, then it is a gray area. However, Yu-Gi-Oh's case is that the World of Darkness is a very literal Earth-sized universe. I think a better comparison might be the universe in MiB.

 

[Damage3245]

Listen, I mean the fact is this, this is a blatant 3-A to Low 2-C feat overall, it flat out says the worlds will collide and be destroyed, there's nothing vague about that at all, that's clearly a universal feat, and frankly the Bleach God Tiers should scale to it, we've been dancing around universal Bleach for so long, but honestly the more I look at the evidence, the more it looks valid to me

So I support the feat being 3-A to Low 2-C and just say let the God Tiers scale to it, this topic been beaten to death at this point and I've come around to Arc's points

Am I missing something? The feat froim Senna isn't to do with the effects of collision at all.

Also; Kishi and Reishi aren't supposed to interact with each other, no? Why couldn't that be the reason that the dimensions would be destroyed through contact with each other instead of them being hit by some kind of Universal AP.

 

[SilentBob34]

Am I missing something? The feat froim Senna isn't to do with the effects of collision at all.

Also; Kishi and Reishi aren't supposed to interact with each other, no? Why couldn't that be the reason that the dimensions would be destroyed through contact with each other instead of them being hit by some kind of Universal AP.

I’m gonna let Arc comment more, but I don’t think it was mentioned anywhere in the movie, manga, or novels that because Kishi and Reishi can’t interact with each other automatically means if they did both dimensions would blow each other up. Also what you’re suggesting goes against everything the movie was about. Because I seriously can’t remember where anyone was saying what you’re thinking

seriously no offense, but the fact you agreed with the changes but now are proposing something like that kinda makes it seem your grasping at straws

 

[YukaSama4]

I mean, if that's true all humans will die because they have Reishi souls.

 

[SilentBob34]

@Damage, unless you can prove someone saying that if Kishi and Reishi were to interact with each other (when soul reapers literally fight in the WOTL and use reishi attacks) that that’s the reason the dimensions would blow up (which again that goes against everything that was said in the movie) that point is invalid

don’t get me wrong though please. I love your work and think you’re a great guy when it comes to this verse but after some recent threads I’m confused on your standpoints of the verse

 

[Reio35]

Am I missing something? The feat froim Senna isn't to do with the effects of collision at all.

Also; Kishi and Reishi aren't supposed to interact with each other, no? Why couldn't that be the reason that the dimensions would be destroyed through contact with each other instead of them being hit by some kind of Universal AP.

It was stated to be due to the energy of the collision not any type of reaction. In the manga itself we see the effects of reshi and kinshi like hollows and souls which are made of reshi are able to move around in the wol which is made of kinshi and not cause any reactionary effects. Reshi also exists in the wol in small amounts and doesn't cause adverse effects. Reshi has been shown to interact with matter perfectly fine.

 

[AppleLord]

Kishi contains Reishi in the WotL, the souls Fullbringers use to fight. The Urahara comment about Kishi and Reishi not been able to interact is more of you can’t go to the Soul World without been a Soul.