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Self-reference ENGINE discussion thread

Why does SRE refer to himself as "Nemo Ex Machina"?
In one chapter we learn that the Techno-Gnosis group is interested in a mechanized null that would be "Nemo Ex Machina" and I find it amazing that they have glimpsed its existence (or rather its non-existence).
 
EndlessWords said:
Why does SRE refer to himself as "Nemo Ex Machina"?
In one chapter we learn that the Techno-Gnosis group is interested in a mechanized null that would be "Nemo Ex Machina" and I find it amazing that they have glimpsed its existence (or rather its non-existence).
Click to expand...
In fact, his real name is Nemo Ex Machina, and SRE is his function as a storyteller.

It's really simple, the Techno-Gnosis group started to investigate their internal multiverse born from dreams (there are also dreams within dreams, each dream is a full multiverse, I wouldn't be surprised if these multiverse have their own hierarchy of something). And if an entire multiverse is someone else's dream, then they might as well be someone else's dream or fiction. And they came to the conclusion of the existence of a mechanical nothingness that could, through dreams or fiction, create their world.
 
MrOMG said:
In fact, his real name is Nemo Ex Machina, and SRE is his function as a storyteller.

It's really simple, the Techno-Gnosis group started to investigate their internal multiverse born from dreams (there are also dreams within dreams, each dream is a full multiverse, I wouldn't be surprised if these multiverse have their own hierarchy of something). And if an entire multiverse is someone else's dream, then they might as well be someone else's dream or fiction. And they came to the conclusion of the existence of a mechanical nothingness that could, through dreams or fiction, create their world.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for this information, I understand much better now.

I didn't understand that they understood how the mechanical null works because of the fact that beings can create multiverses by dreaming.
So the whole cosmology works on the principle of being able to create worlds through fiction or dreams, the SRE story is the story of a novel that tells a story that tells a story that tells a story etc.

And I understand better about his name, I thought Nemo Ex Machina was his real name but I had a doubt.
 
Can i ask a few questions about the verse?

1. What specific cardinals does it mention?

2. How does laplace demons look like and how is it born?

3. Will there be upgrades in the future?
Like adding laplace demons and Bahamut
And even upgrading the cosmology?

4. If i understood the cosmology right, even the first hierarchy scales to 1=0?
And there are 1=0 hierarchies above it?
And then all of this is just one story out of infinite amount of them?
 
Gasper said:
Can i ask a few questions about the verse?

1. What specific cardinals does it mention?

2. How does laplace demons look like and how is it born?

3. Will there be upgrades in the future?
Like adding laplace demons and Bahamut
And even upgrading the cosmology?

4. If i understood the cosmology right, even the first hierarchy scales to 1=0?
And there are 1=0 hierarchies above it?
And then all of this is just one story out of infinite amount of them?
Click to expand...
1) It was just said about "the very top of the ladder of big cardinal numbers" (Doctor 123 seemed to say that Reinhardt and Berkeley Cardinals are steps in this ladder, but I'm not sure)

2) No one knows what Laplace's Demon looks like, because he started his advancement on the logical ladder already at birth, and he could be born from anyone, either from the Knowledge Corps or from a human, but most likely from something else.

3) The profiles don't mention that there is an internal hierarchy of dreams/multi-universes within Knowledge Corps (perhaps humans have their own infinite hierarchy of multiverse as well, since they dream too). That beings with intelligence can manipulate time, etc.

4) The ladder of large cardinal numbers is just one rung in the ladder of intelligence/logic. But the number of all ladders is equal to theories (cardinal numbers).
There was also about an infinite chain of possibilities and impossibilities that would lead to another infinite chain of possibilities and impossibilities and so on (although I'm not 100% sure it refers to stories, but most likely this chain refers to stories). And all these stories were created by Nemo Ex Machina, who told/told/will tell a story about himself.
 
MrOMG said:
1) It was just said about "the very top of the ladder of big cardinal numbers" (Doctor 123 seemed to say that Reinhardt and Berkeley Cardinals are steps in this ladder, but I'm not sure)
Click to expand...
Who is Doctor 123?
MrOMG said:
2) No one knows what Laplace's Demon looks like, because he started his advancement on the logical ladder already at birth, and he could be born from anyone, either from the Knowledge Corps or from a human, but most likely from something else.
Click to expand...
What is his lore? Like what does it mean being born from humans or this Higher beings? Is it like xenomorph from alien or something else? Also, is the name "Demon" meant literally or not? Like the mention of angels and stuff also being metaphorical.
MrOMG said:
3) The profiles don't mention that there is an internal hierarchy of dreams/multi-universes within Knowledge Corps (perhaps humans have their own infinite hierarchy of multiverse as well, since they dream too). That beings with intelligence can manipulate time, etc.
Click to expand...
Is dream hierarchies of laplace demons above large cardinal number of hierarchies right? (I know i already asked you that but just making sure).
MrOMG said:
4) The ladder of large cardinal numbers is just one rung in the ladder of intelligence/logic. But the number of all ladders is equal to theories (cardinal numbers).
There was also about an infinite chain of possibilities and impossibilities that would lead to another infinite chain of possibilities and impossibilities and so on (although I'm not 100% sure it refers to stories, but most likely this chain refers to stories). And all these stories were created by Nemo Ex Machina, who told/told/will tell a story about himself.
Click to expand...
Could POTENTIALLY this infinite chain of possibilities and impossibilities be part of one story? If so, would they be above all hierarchies but below dream hierarchy of demons?
 
Gasper said:
If it goes beyond rank into rank cardinal then yeah, but even then this verse has infinite hierarchies each transending rank into rank infinitely.
Click to expand...
0=1 is implied but not outright stated. That aside, it would still scale to the top of the large cardinal hierarchy, which means it scales to pretty much all of these, which is so high into 0 we cant actually give a number of layers into (even inaccessible layers^inaccessible^inaccessible^inaccessible....etc would still be a miserable understatement). And there are other hierarchies above this.
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
0=1 is implied but not outright stated. That aside, it would still scale to the top of the large cardinal hierarchy, which means it scales to pretty much all of these, which is so high into 0 we cant actually give a number of layers into (even inaccessible layers^inaccessible^inaccessible^inaccessible....etc would still be a miserable understatement). And there are other hierarchies above this.
Click to expand...
I also heard author said there is also reinhardt cardinal in the verse, is it true?
 
Gasper said:
Who is Doctor 123?
Click to expand...
A man who knows a lot more about SREs than I do.
Gasper said:
What is his lore? Like what does it mean being born from humans or this Higher beings? Is it like xenomorph from alien or something else? Also, is the name "Demon" meant literally or not? Like the mention of angels and stuff also being metaphorical.
Click to expand...
Just be born, perhaps a Corpus, perhaps a human, perhaps a sentient sock or something else becomes a Laplace Demon, and that's it. The Laplace Demon is simply a reference to a mental experiment about a quantum demon who through observation and computation determines the entire world. The Laplace Demons of SRE perceive time deterministically and in a single line no matter how much time will be distorted.
Gasper said:
Is dream hierarchies of laplace demons above large cardinal number of hierarchies right? (I know i already asked you that but just making sure).
Click to expand...
The Ladder of Large Cardinal Numbers is the smallest part of the Ladder of Intelligence/Logic, literally one rung of an infinite number of other rungs that surpass the Ladder of Large Cardinal Numbers. Of course Demons are superior to the Ladder of Cardinal Numbers, the Corps is superior too.
Gasper said:
Could POTENTIALLY this infinite chain of possibilities and impossibilities be part of one story? If so, would they be above all hierarchies but below dream hierarchy of demons?
Click to expand...
I meant that perhaps there is an infinite chain of all possible and impossible stories that lead to another infinite chain of stories and so on to infinity.
 
Gasper said:
I also heard author said there is also reinhardt cardinal in the verse, is it true?
Click to expand...
The idea is that the Ladder of Large Cardinal Numbers has existing all cardinals (and even unknown to humanity at the moment, since the largest cardinal does not exist, so the wiki uses 0=1 as the so-called "top of the large cardinal numbers")
 
Gasper said:
I also heard author said there is also reinhardt cardinal in the verse, is it true?
Click to expand...
No, it's not stated (it doesnt matter since the thing scales to the hierarchy of large cardinals itself, so a reinhardt might be included by necessity anyway)

But a Reinhardt or Berkeley arent as big as people make it out to be. In terms of size, extendibles and ultra-huges should be the biggest ones.
 
MrOMG said:
A man who knows a lot more about SREs than I do.

Just be born, perhaps a Corpus, perhaps a human, perhaps a sentient sock or something else becomes a Laplace Demon, and that's it. The Laplace Demon is simply a reference to a mental experiment about a quantum demon who through observation and computation determines the entire world. The Laplace Demons of SRE perceive time deterministically and in a single line no matter how much time will be distorted.

The Ladder of Large Cardinal Numbers is the smallest part of the Ladder of Intelligence/Logic, literally one rung of an infinite number of other rungs that surpass the Ladder of Large Cardinal Numbers. Of course Demons are superior to the Ladder of Cardinal Numbers, the Corps is superior too.
Click to expand...
I didn't mean it like that, i meant if Demons are superior to the whole of 1=0 amount of hierarchies.
 
Gasper said:
I didn't mean it like that, i meant if Demons are superior to the whole of 1=0 amount of hierarchies.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, because it was said that only by overcoming the infinite hierarchy of Laplace's prodigal sons can one reach Nemo Ex Machina (unless of course the English translation is lying, and it has been wrong many times)
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
No, it's not stated (it doesnt matter since the thing scales to the hierarchy of large cardinals itself, so a reinhardt might be included by necessity anyway)

But a Reinhardt or Berkeley arent as big as people make it out to be. In terms of size, extendibles and ultra-huges should be the biggest ones.
Click to expand...
I seen people say that Reinhardt Cardinal is part of a different branch of set theory and is one of the biggest if not the biggest Cardinals in that branch, it is also not contradiction and that's the reason why it should scale above 1=0 Cardinal (at least according to some people).
 
MrOMG said:
Perhaps, because it was said that only by overcoming the infinite hierarchy of Laplace's prodigal sons can one reach Nemo Ex Machina (unless of course the English translation is lying, and it has been wrong many times)
Click to expand...
Also one more question: if laplace Demon hypothetically wouldn't be that high but instead only 1-A+, who would in your opinion win, him or 3812?
 
0=1 has really nothing much to do with Reinhardts. You can have trivialism way before the first cardinal. It's just that Reinhardt is inconsistent with ZFC axioms.

A 1-superhuge cardinal is already bigger than the first Reinhardt.
 
Gasper said:
Also one more question: if laplace Demon hypothetically wouldn't be that high but instead only 1-A+, who would in your opinion win, him or 3812?
Click to expand...
I don't know enough about SCP to answer that question. It's probably a question of which hierarchies are being climbed. We need to compare the quantity and quality of these hierarchies(although I'm sure SCP has some crazy shit)
 
MrOMG said:
I don't know enough about SCP to answer that question. It's probably a question of which hierarchies are being climbed. We need to compare the quantity and quality of these hierarchies(although I'm sure SCP has some crazy shit)
Click to expand...
At their best scp has nothing even close to the top of large cardinals. The best it has is in some more recent stories it mentions inaccessible cardinal which is contained within noosphere.
 
Will laplace Demon ever be added?
He would be one of the best Characters for vs battles in the whole verse.
 
Lewis said:
0=1 is a contradiction which we must have tvalisim To help make 0=1 come true.
Click to expand...
I think it was already stated that self reference engine can make everything come true, including impossibilities.
 
Sorry @MrOMG to interupt you but i remember you said this: "hyper-dimensionality and super-mega-dimensionality and so on to infinity)."

Is there a scan saying this? (Not that i don't believe you or anything, i would just want to see it myself if that's not a problem).
 
Gasper said:
Sorry @MrOMG to interupt you but i remember you said this: "hyper-dimensionality and super-mega-dimensionality and so on to infinity)."

Is there a scan saying this? (Not that i don't believe you or anything, i would just want to see it myself if that's not a problem).
Click to expand...
Don't know about "super-mega", but "hyper" and "hyper-high level" dimensionality exists, as well as succeeding dimensions above those and so on.

hyperdimension.png


hyperdimension2.png


hyperdimension3.png
 
Gasper said:
Sorry @MrOMG to interupt you but i remember you said this: "hyper-dimensionality and super-mega-dimensionality and so on to infinity)."

Is there a scan saying this? (Not that i don't believe you or anything, i would just want to see it myself if that's not a problem).
Click to expand...
Their adversary claimed to be an entity from a hyper2-high-level dimension. What would such a being need with a cutting from the low-level dimensions the giant corpora of knowledge were dealing with? The only way to answer this question would be to ask the self-proclaimed star-man Alpha Centauri, but that avenue of communication seemed to be a one-way street, opened or closed as he saw fit.

Some thought the whole thing was a fairy tale. Perhaps we are like nothing more than weeds planted on the hand of a Brahmin, and when the Brahmin awakens we will be torn up regardless of whether our dimension is high or low. Or perhaps there is some turtle in some hyperdimensional space, and when the turtle turns, some even-higher-level elephant in some even-higher-level dimension also has to turn.

At any rate, what lies on the far side is still the unknown. The only thing certain is that something far beyond imagination exists there. Forward, one step at a time, is the only way to proceed. That is what the giant corpora of knowledge had been best at, but now they were sure their intellectual capacity was not up to the task. They were constructed to continue working forever. But what were they supposed to do, assuming their newfound adversary was beyond a horizon so far off they could never reach it even if they used all the many universes as fuel and burned completely through existence?
Click to expand...
 
MrOMG said:
There are an infinite number of hierarchies within the hierarchy of logic. So that these dimensions are within it and below it.
Click to expand...
But there are an infinite amount of hierarchies beyond it as well?
 
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